Averages = Lifebar penalty

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

Hard pass:

Amazing->perf(life regen 1)
Perf->good(no life regen)
Good->avg(life penalty 1)
Avg->boo(life penalty 2)
Boo=boo(life penalty 3)

[Trumpet63]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

Hey, according to this potentially outdated wiki, it takes 21 boos or 21 misses to fail a song. Each takes 5% of your bar.

[_Zenith_]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

Hey, according to this potentially outdated wiki, it takes 21 boos or 21 misses to fail a song. Each takes 5% of your bar.

It takes 21 boos/misses when you have a full life bar.

It takes 11 to fail out immediately from a song.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

Hard pass:

Amazing->perf(life regen 1)
Perf->good(no life regen)
Good->avg(life penalty 1)
Avg->boo(life penalty 2)
Boo=boo(life penalty 3)

oh that's good

that's real good

[rushyrulz]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

@everyone that's talking about unlocking tokens being a problem... just have different requirements? and people that already have the token unlocked don't have to do it again?

edit: not trying to sound like an ass, just a solution to the problems you're stating.

Pretty sure we're going to be putting a lot of thought into changing up some token requirements, mainly for normal tokens, and possibly some skill tokens in the nearish future. The fact that life-depleting averages would ruin some token requirements is a total non-issue.

As for the idea of life-depleting averages, sure I think it's a good idea. At least make them be neutral like they were in the past, because currently they add to your life bar in R^3.

[Rapta]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

I think neutral sounds nice

[Arch0wl]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

you said earlier that you "like the way averages are at the moment". whatever reason you have for wanting to make passes absurdly easy, you should make that reason clear if you're going to say we shouldn't have lifebar-depleting averages

frankly, lifebar-neutral is going half-measure. don't go half-measure. even with lifebar-neutral averages, songs are easy to pass. the benefit of this adjustment is that it makes passes MEANINGFUL, because they currently aren't.

[ca25nada]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

Personally speaking, it's not the life drain that's not punishing enough, rather the recovery rate is way too fast on FFR for the drain to have any meaning whatsoever.
(like it only takes 10 goods to literally fill up half of the lifebar in FFR)

Also, since someone mentioned IIDX, these are the recovery/drain values for each note.

Values are for:
PGreat/Great/Good/Bad/Poor/mashPoor(see them as boos in FFR) respectively.
You can see the timing windows here: https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/v...?threadid=5233

HARD Drain is reduced by half when the gauge is below 30%, recovery is still the same.
+0.16 / +0.16 / 0.00 / -5.00 / -9.00 / -5.00
EXHARD Drain remains the same even when below 30%
+0.16 / +0.16 / 0.00 / -10.00 / -18.00 / -10.00
Dan Gauge Drain is reduced by half when the gauge is below 30%, recovery is still the same.
+0.16 / +0.16 / +0.04 / -1.50 / -2.50 / -1.50


EDIT: oop typo

[Rapta]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

you said earlier that you "like the way averages are at the moment". whatever reason you have for wanting to make passes absurdly easy, you should make that reason clear if you're going to say we shouldn't have lifebar-depleting averages

frankly, lifebar-neutral is going half-measure. don't go half-measure. even with lifebar-neutral averages, songs are easy to pass. the benefit of this adjustment is that it makes passes MEANINGFUL, because they currently aren't.

I said what I said earlier because I did not like the idea proposed
(making averages a life bar penalty) but I didn't want to outwardly
say it like that so I explained my feelings on the way averages currently are.

I read an idea (averages being neutral) which sounded better than averages
being a penalty, so I thought "if this were to be changed, I would rather they be neutral".

I like passes being the way they are because I often mash through extremely hard Mania engine songs.
It is the predominant way I play to get better these days. I believe making averages a penalty would ruin that for me.
Just my opinion on \thread

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

what about an irl life bar penalty for averages

[andy-o24]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

the benefit of this adjustment is that it makes passes MEANINGFUL, because they currently aren't.

We've already established that FC's aren't meaningful because of the raw scoring change.
You're establishing that passes aren't meaningful because averages don't have a life penalty and that makes passing too easy.

Is boiling FFR down to a single goal oriented game really what we want?

-o24

[Kraezymann]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

I think he's establishing that various songs on FFR are too easy to mash, and that the "Averages as a penalty" is simply a possible solution.

Having a secondary way to complete a song, like the "hard mode" that has been suggested also provides more than the single goal of AAA'ing the song. With only one chart per song there isn't much more than the one goal of AAA'ing it, no?

[_Zenith_]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

I never understood the need to mash at all. If you're mashing a song, wouldn't that mean you haven't gathered enough skill to actually play the patterns the correct way but instead your brain goes to a "let me hit every key I can because I won't fail because the Perfect life regen outweighs the mashing speed of boo'ing patterns". It's honestly a misinterpretation of how to play the game in general.

[Rapta]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

I never understood the need to mash at all. If you're mashing a song, wouldn't that mean you haven't gathered enough skill to actually play the patterns the correct way but instead your brain goes to a "let me hit every key I can because I won't fail because the Perfect life regen outweighs the mashing speed of boo'ing patterns". It's honestly a misinterpretation of how to play the game in general.

I honestly don't feel like writing "all the reasons to mash" right now. Let me finish my mp with Mourning and I will explain my reasons.

[_Zenith_]

Re: Averages = Lifebar penalty

I said what I said earlier because I did not like the idea proposed
(making averages a life bar penalty) but I didn't want to outwardly
say it like that so I explained my feelings on the way averages currently are.

I read an idea (averages being neutral) which sounded better than averages
being a penalty, so I thought "if this were to be changed, I would rather they be neutral".

I like passes being the way they are because I often mash through extremely hard Mania engine songs.
It is the predominant way I play to get better these days. I believe making averages a penalty would ruin that for me.
Just my opinion on \thread

The bolded section is the wrong way to go about improving (even on Mania songs). On FFR you have the beautiful ability to Isolate specific sections of any given chart, and doing so would benefit you more than just mashing the patterns and not learning them/reading them.

IMO Mashing would help you build up stamina in your forearms (the burning sensation you feel) which Arch0wl (or someone else) mentioned in an earlier thread some time ago.