Rates higher than 1.0 should record

[qqwref]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

Voting no. The songs are all *meant* to be played normally, so if playing them on rate gives you any kind of advantage it should thus be forbidden - and if it doesn't give you an advantage I don't know why you'd want it. It's different than something like mirror or different noteskins because the file fundamentally changes, and because nobody in Stepmania would consider a ratemodded score to be equivalent to a non-rate score. Honestly, if you can't get a score on normal rate, then you just don't deserve to have that particular score in your levelranks. And if you don't want to play through all the files, you don't deserve the low levelrank that everyone else had to get by actually playing through the files.

I do think it'd be nice if songs on rates gave credits, though, just so you can get something for your work. For grandtotal I'd say it should either not record, or it should be divided by song rate, to prevent rates making it easier to whore for vrofl. So yeah, basically what choof said in the previous post, although I don't see any necessity to divide credits (they don't really matter).

[Untimely Friction]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

For about a year now I played 65-78 only, now Im doing 75-88 only, if I go on like this then go back and rate 65-74's I'd get a higher score then I presently have on them or maybe AAA's, but quite frankly I wouldnt care to play them off rate so I might be irate when I can't have those scores recorded.

[choof]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

Voting no. The songs are all *meant* to be played normally, so if playing them on rate gives you any kind of advantage it should thus be forbidden

playing on rates won't give you any advantage

and if it doesn't give you an advantage I don't know why you'd want it.

maybe because rates are fun? some files are way more fun on rates than they are on 1.0 (some favorites of mine include FN, choprite, anything with stream, etc)

It's different than something like mirror or different noteskins because the file fundamentally changes

mirror fundamentally changes a file more than rates do, imo. examples: anchors, jacks, one-handed trills

and because nobody in Stepmania would consider a ratemodded score to be equivalent to a non-rate score.

this is FFR, stepmania scoring is an entirely different thing.

Honestly, if you can't get a score on normal rate, then you just don't deserve to have that particular score in your levelranks.

wat

And if you don't want to play through all the files, you don't deserve the low levelrank that everyone else had to get by actually playing through the files.

oh okay, I see what you're getting at. you don't want people to be rewarded for challenging themselves, you want people to experience the struggle of playing through a bunch of really bad files

[ilikexd]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

i don't have a strong opinion either way and both sides have valid arguments

[qqwref]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

maybe because rates are fun? some files are way more fun on rates than they are on 1.0 (some favorites of mine include FN, choprite, anything with stream, etc)

I enjoy playing songs on rates too. What I don't see is why you'd want a rate score to be on the leaderboards, unless there is some advantage to being on rate. And if there is, it's unfair to the people who had to use 1.0, right?

mirror fundamentally changes a file more than rates do, imo. examples: anchors, jacks, one-handed trills

I agree mirror makes playing a file different, but as long as you use spread the patterns are still the same and at the same speed, just mirrored. Anchors are still anchors, jacks are still jacks, one-handed trills are still one-handed, just on the other hand. Playing on rate certainly makes patterns play differently, especially because of the 30 fps-ness. For instance, rolls are easier to hit at some speeds than others, and a jack may be too fast to comfortably wristjack and too slow to vibrate, but on a rate it may be a good speed for vibrating.

oh okay, I see what you're getting at. you don't want people to be rewarded for challenging themselves, you want people to experience the struggle of playing through a bunch of really bad files

I do want people to experience playing through old files, yes. You shouldn't be claiming you have AAAd 500 easy songs if you haven't, and if you don't want to play 500 easy songs, you don't deserve to be one of the people who has AAAd them all. Part of the accomplishment is actually putting in the necessary time, and honestly, that's kind of a theme in FFR. Even Staiain can't get more than 1550 points a note, so if he wants 30 billion grandtotal, he will have to hit just as many notes as anyone else.

And besides, the files are still bad on rates. They're just faster.

[leonid]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

Play the charts as stepcharters intended to plz

[choof]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

I enjoy playing songs on rates too. What I don't see is why you'd want a rate score to be on the leaderboards, unless there is some advantage to being on rate. And if there is, it's unfair to the people who had to use 1.0, right?

An AAA on 1.0 and an AAA on 1.2 will look like the same score on the leaderboards.

I agree mirror makes playing a file different, but as long as you use spread the patterns are still the same and at the same speed, just mirrored.

A 1212 trill on mirror is 4343. That's not the same pattern.

Anchors are still anchors, jacks are still jacks, one-handed trills are still one-handed, just on the other hand.

lol

Playing on rate certainly makes patterns play differently, especially because of the 30 fps-ness.

You're right, patterns will play differently but this will vary completely from person to person, based on skill level and skill set.

For instance, rolls are easier to hit at some speeds than others

Sure, but there aren't any files in the game that consist only of rolls. Kono Spoon is pretty roll-heavy, but there are also awkward patterns that stay just as awkward at higher speeds. Skeletor is famous for it's roll, but using rates to cheat the roll will also make the rest of the file faster.

and a jack may be too fast to comfortably wristjack and too slow to vibrate, but on a rate it may be a good speed for vibrating.

Again, this will speed up the entire file.

I do want people to experience playing through old files, yes. You shouldn't be claiming you have AAAd 500 easy songs if you haven't

If I AAA'd a song on 1.2, no one is going to say that "it doesn't count because it's not 1.0," except assholes.

and if you don't want to play 500 easy songs, you don't deserve to be one of the people who has AAAd them all.

"Deserve?"

Part of the accomplishment is actually putting in the necessary time, and honestly, that's kind of a theme in FFR.

Says who? Last time I checked, the whole theme of FFR was that it was a game. And not only that, but it's a rhythm game. I'd say that people who can achieve your levelrank or higher with rates deserves to be called better than you.

Even Staiain can't get more than 1550 points a note, so if he wants 30 billion grandtotal, he will have to hit just as many notes as anyone else.

Good thing rates don't change overall note count!

And besides, the files are still bad on rates. They're just faster.

You're right. But playing them faster means we experience less time playing them.

[RagedBerserker]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

I am going to play on 1.037x rate.

(I felt like this was something addressed in the other thread but had not been in this thread yet.)

[XCV]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

This game should never have been about artificial difficulty.

Appealing to the hundreds of thousands of players we had four or five years ago or a handful of files made in Notepad when I was in second grade to further the argument that FFR should retain any number of inane flaws from before any community existed, even when there are people only now implementing features that have been in Stepmania for years, when there are almost certainly more ingame files than active levelrankers, when I'm in my second year of college, is one of the more ridiculous propositions I've heard since I've been on this site.

Not that putting in hours of your life better spent in myriad other ways to lower a number on a site maybe a thousand people still drop by now and then is remotely important, but if we're revamping the site soon, just maybe we should do the same for the game it's based around?

[awein999]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

If it's not practical to make specific leaderboards for certain rates like 1.1, 1.2 etc. then it makes sense to exclude rates from current level ranks because it's a completely different accomplishment than what has been done in the past to get on those leaderboards. It's simply a different category. Whether it may or may not give an advantage to play a song faster in certain situations I'm not even going to debate because it's irrelevant.

Should count towards gameplays, grandtotal, and credits because you are playing official FFR charts and should be rewarded with credits and your gameplays should be shown as being recorded on the site. Grandtotal has always been an irrelevant statistic so it shouldn't matter what tiny ripple in the .01% of players this will impact greatly.

[EtienneSM]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

I'm just going to ignore the arguing or whatever it is that's going on in the first page and post what I think about this idea.

Pros:

Not only will people get to enjoy playing the songs on rates, but it will also count as towards their level ranks if they get for example: 3g on Sleep 1.1 compared to 5g on Sleep 1.0. It be cool if it can show what rate they did it on for the leaderboards as well but I feel like that would be a pain to do. Just an idea.

It will make songs that experienced players know they can AAA very easily much faster and less boring, making level rank cleanups a breeze.

This can be useful for tournaments, it'd be cool to have a tournament where a random rate gets picked for a song in each division and they have to see how well they can score on it. Just another random idea as well, I think that would be relatively neat to see.

Cons:

The main one I see in this is that songs that abuse rolls would be easier to AAA/score on than if it was on a lower rate. For example, Skeletor. I remember someone else discussing this before but I feel like I should bring it up again. And Master Maid I believe it's called, that's another song that has a decent amount of rolls that would be easier to hit on 1.1 than 1.0. Those are pretty much the only songs that have these types of things in it but I feel like it wouldn't be a big deal. Besides the roll parts, the song would still be hard because of rate mods so I guess it's bittersweet in a way.

Grandtotal count is something that I would be concerned about if this rate mods counted, basically every 10 spots would be taken within a matter of weeks because of how high of a rate mod you can use. Although, it would make the 24 hour grandtotal leaderboard a bit more competitive so I guess it could be a good idea in a sense. Not to mention some people would just skyrocket with credits but if there's a way to not give credits out or something, there should be no reason not to implement rate-modding.


All and all, it wouldn't really be a big deal if rate mods were implemented, it'd be nice to see FFR make a big step like this, maybe make the game a bit more fun than it already is, I understand that you can already rate mod stuff, but if the scores were recorded, I feel like it would make a difference.

Yes.

[choof]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

then it makes sense to exclude rates from current level ranks because it's a completely different accomplishment than what has been done in the past to get on those leaderboards.

No it's not?

[XelNya]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

Let's put it this way, if rates record, then removing the background has to record as well. You're still altering the way the chart is played. Shit if left and right are still in those have to record as well. You cannot allow one chart altering mod and not allow them all. I don't care how much each mod changes the game the issue is that they still change the game. And the reason I am fine with mirror vs everything else is because it only changes what hand you're hitting it with, not the whole pattern's technique completely (like left and right does.) Shit if you look at MFDFY's intro jump gluts mirror only reverses which way you hit them first, it doesn't change the fact you still have to hit that pattern.

I find it awful that short of AAAing an FMO no one could give two shits what kind of scores you obtain. Adding rates only makes this issue worse.

[awein999]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

Songs become shorter, nps higher. That is a fundamental difference.

[choof]

Re: Rates higher than 1.0 should record

it's still the same file