How should Secret Songs be handled?

[ItsOnlyDanO]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

if your complaining about losing credits via the gambling hall, then your forgetting the first rule of gambling, don't stake what you can't afford to lose

although the idea of secret songs being permanently unlocked once you get 150k sounds ok, I don't know if this will affect the value of credits (because there be practically no point to having any once you have all the secret songs/purchased all songs in purchased)

[icontrolyourworld]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

How about this:
keep it the way it is right now but add a veteran bonus that IF you have 150k (or x amount credits/gt) AND you're a vet you keep all the songs unlocked.

This makes it so:
If a new player borrows credits and returns them they don't keep the songs.
If you're a vet and you've gotten the required credits you won't lose the songs and you can still save them or if you want gamble/donate them

it doesn't change how things are currently but adds a nice vet bonus for those that worked for it

[XelNya]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

As currency dependant genre, Secret should stay where it is. Credits have for lack of a better term insufficient purpose and its own meaning. Credits are Purchased/Secret Genres, though, increasing the amount of songs in each genre would be nice to see.

I agree that right now credits have like no value. There's a really easy way to change that.

HOWEVER. Leaving Secret the way it is, actually hinders their value.

What should be done is that the Secret genre as a whole needs to be removed.

What I'd do:

1. Restructure the purchased genre to actually make sense. (I'd do this with tokens too, but entirely different conversation.)

- The way it is now is a textbook joke. Prices have literally zero meaning and is usually a seemingly random number. Joke prices aside of course. (Though I'd get rid of those.)

- Step one, remove the rest of legacy out of there. Permanently. You should not be spending credits on objectively mediocre files.

- Step two, I'd hold a vote for a set of maybe 100 songs (maybe more or less? Idea crafting here sorry.) That the community thinks are worth purchasing. (Obviously would have to divide this into difficulty ranges to structure it so there's some for everyone.) (Also note that currently "secret" songs would be eligible.)

- Step three, have the difficulty consultants pick about 50 - 75 files they think would be files worth their weight. This keeps a community and practical set of files in purchased.

- Step four, amend prices to be based on difficulty. The higher level a file, the more you can pay for it because you're earning more based on other files around the same difficulty range. This won't ever be an exact science though and I strongly advise against using some whack formula.

- The big issue I foresee with this is that by doing this you're gonna end up with a lot of songs un-purchased, and a lot of ones that were, not there anymore. The real struggle will be figuring out how to balance this. There's gonna be a lot of happy people, and a lot of really unhappy people. I don't think there's a way to please more than 25% of the community through this. Maybe give players the choice to select a current set of files equal to what they've already paid in with some inflation added maybe? I'm really stuck on this part, and it's really the biggest flaw to what I think needs to be done.

- Step five, roll out the revamped genre. gauge reactions, adjust prices a little if need be. I'm sure when it rolls out it won't be perfect by any means.

2. Remove secret from the game as a whole.

- There's a few reasons for this. The main one being secret as a whole lost it's real purpose when forum tokens were introduced back in the day. The other one being the idea of credits isn't to save them, but to have something to spend them on. This seems like the more correct way to go about this.

- Any left over files go into the public game, or tokens I guess if that's what the community wants. I'm really fine with both tbh. (But if they become tokens, I have ideas for fixing that mess too. And yes, it's a mess if you're like me and like things super simple.)

Other notes:

1. I don't think by obliterating secret, and changing the prices in purchased, that it should come out to the same price as the current two combined. I think that if it comes out less, oh well that sucks, but if it comes out more you shouldn't be shelling out extra credits for files you've already bought. It in a sense will balance out. Eventually.

2. This reads like I think it's really the only way about this. And truth be told, in my mind it really is. I think Secret genre now days is conceptually bad.

- Also note that "nostalgia" is not a valid reason for being completely counter productive.

- There's a few files like the little mermaid I'd probably suggest not putting in purchased, but this is super opinionated and would be worth discussing should anything like this happen.

- Also wanna add at the end that if there's a better solution to this than what I just said I'm not completely closed off to other ideas, just tbh I think keeping secret in the game is a hindrance to the overall game due to being arguably counter productive. Also I can't come up with a better way to phrase any of this, so it probably comes off really blunt and rude, and I can't help that, I did my best to phrase it as best possible. Spoilered a chunk because otherwise this post is a wall.

Edit: @Icy, I think a better thing might be that if my idea got done reformat secret to veteran? Something like that? (I didn't even think about trying to tie in being a vet into this till I saw your post after making mine. But there's a potential idea there...)

[Rapta]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

Credits can still be bought to change name color. Remember when that used to be a thing people did?

[Godnick]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

Leave it alone plz....I've been saving substantial credits for all songs for years and don't want this to be abolished by these gambling addicts and overly friendly or quitting donators. Your loss guys earn your stripes and quit trying to take an easy way around over a decade old requirements with admins shitting out credits and ongoing ways to fasten the process to earn currency. There's lots of people sitting around with way too many. Use this url to help find out who to beg to by replacing <usernamehere> with an ffr username.
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/ffrsiggy/<usernamehere>/0125.png

[Deadlyx39]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

1. Gambling Hall
This is the major thing that alters the way in how you gain, and lose credits. Let's say someone who's been in this site for a long time has 250k credits, and decides to make a 250k credit bet. Well, if he loses, all of the hard work he/she put into this game to unlock and play the secret songs are now GONE!

You know, seeing as this actually happened to me, it's nobody's fault but the person who places the bet and the person who takes the bet. That's how the gambling hall was made and if you get screwed by RNGsus, then that's on you.

[XelNya]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

You know, seeing as this actually happened to me, it's nobody's fault but the person who places the bet and the person who takes the bet. That's how the gambling hall was made and if you get screwed by RNGsus, then that's on you.

If you lose a bet it's 100% your fault. You took the bet, or you placed the bet. You pretty much accept that you're fine to lose those credits.

If you don't understand that the credits are pretty much lost when you place it, stay out of the gambling hall. You're gonna keep going "maybe this time" and end up in a really sad place.

With no credits.

[rushyrulz]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

Without reading many posts in this thread, this idea sounds good as long as there are other purposes for credits. Since there are currently not many uses other than purchasing songs and unlocking secret songs, it would destroy part of the need for creds.

[Red Blaster]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

In response to what RB said, how about a new badge/user icon (like the blue circular veteran status icon under user title) that is handed out to the host/s of tournaments at the end of their successfully completed tournament that gives them the ability to have secret songs permanently unlocked (once they have reached the required credit amount).

That way, hosts can enjoy running tourneys without worrying about losing their secret songs. It also gives a cool new user icon that shows the community that this user can host a successful tourney. And maybe it might generate more tourneys cause I'm sure that the large credit donation that hosts have to contribute is usually what keeps people from hosting one (along with a little time and effort).

And if your tourney is incomplete, you don't get the user icon.

And another suggestion to combat the unlimited trading of credits between accounts could be to limit a daily trading amount based on the amount of FC's you have (or based off the division you're in), maxed at maybe 250k credits a day? Basing it off AAA's or Tier Points would restrict it to higher leveled players only. I dunno where I'm going with this, I'm just throwing idea's out there.

And I agree with Emulord about the playtime achievements genre, that would be a cool addition

This would actually be pretty cool

[XelNya]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

This would actually be pretty cool

The issue is we kinda have achievements genre in game in the form of skill tokens.

Well, if you ignore all the anti PA ones cluttering it up that is.

Edit: Or that some are in token and not skill token.

[icontrolyourworld]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

So I've been just bored looking at a few numbers and it takes 7.5bil to earn 150k credits, if after you hit 7.5 bil (and store 150k credits) you should keep all secret songs unlocked.

Additionally Purchased cost 155,354 to unlock all songs in the genre currently, so if you earn 7.5 bil you can then go and get all the purchased songs for the most part which would be nice.

This is only relevant however if the devs and community agree that they want something to be done about the secret genre in the first place.

[XelNya]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

So I've been just bored looking at a few numbers and it takes 7.5bil to earn 150k credits, if after you hit 7.5 bil (and store 150k credits) you should keep all secret songs unlocked.

Additionally Purchased cost 155,354 to unlock all songs in the genre currently, so if you earn 7.5 bil you can then go and get all the purchased songs for the most part which would be nice.

I don't get it, why would you do this instead of just merging secret in purchased so the users get more instant satisfaction. The end result is the same, and you're not using a currency system like fucking garbage in the process. It's a win / win for everyone really. Staff even gets another credit sink.

[_Zenith_]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

I think both of those posts (from Xel and Icy) should be very much considered; but the actual credit system itself needs to be changed as well.

Credits, as of this point in FFR Time, have very little value. They are essentially used to play Purchased and Secret songs, used predominantly as a prize in tournaments, and allows you to purchase a profile chat color from the store. There are other methods as well, such as the Gambling Hall that have use for it; but the general idea of the credit is now imo lackluster. Credits can also be used between players for the creation of profiles, signatures, or any graphic for that matter. I have not seen if anyone has stepped a file for someone for credits (although iirc that would be against the rules so no wonder why I haven't seen it done yet).

Also, in an earlier discussion, it was made aware to the community the possibility of credits being earned by raw score instead of the current gaining method. That change should also be implemented as players in D5+ play long duration songs compared to D1-D3 (D4 is kind of in between with longer and shorter songs) earn more than the other players. This on the other hand, I could see being slightly problematic depending on how raw scoring becomes effective with how many credits earned because you could have Credit Farmers who could sit there and mash to vrofl or some other medium like Vs Boss Battle to essentially gain credits faster.

All in all, it boils to the importance and relativity of credits and their usage. I feel like if credits were altered in some way, the Purchased and Secret genres would have to be altered as well.

[MarcusHawkins]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

I think both of those posts (from Xel and Icy) should be very much considered; but the actual credit system itself needs to be changed as well.

Credits, as of this point in FFR Time, have very little value. They are essentially used to play Purchased and Secret songs, used predominantly as a prize in tournaments, and allows you to purchase a profile chat color from the store. There are other methods as well, such as the Gambling Hall that have use for it; but the general idea of the credit is now imo lackluster. Credits can also be used between players for the creation of profiles, signatures, or any graphic for that matter. I have not seen if anyone has stepped a file for someone for credits (although iirc that would be against the rules so no wonder why I haven't seen it done yet).

Also, in an earlier discussion, it was made aware to the community the possibility of credits being earned by raw score instead of the current gaining method. That change should also be implemented as players in D5+ play long duration songs compared to D1-D3 (D4 is kind of in between with longer and shorter songs) earn more than the other players. This on the other hand, I could see being slightly problematic depending on how raw scoring becomes effective with how many credits earned because you could have Credit Farmers who could sit there and mash to vrofl or some other medium like Vs Boss Battle to essentially gain credits faster.

All in all, it boils to the importance and relativity of credits and their usage. I feel like if credits were altered in some way, the Purchased and Secret genres would have to be altered as well.

Bump.
Agreed, this goes back to why made the post in the first place; it just is not accurate enough. It's like cars that are only made for the wealthy.

This site is meant for everyone, so why can't everyone play the secret songs?

[Rapta]

Re: How should Secret Songs be handled?

This site is meant for everyone, so why can't everyone play the secret songs?

"This site is meant for everyone, so why can't everyone play the Token songs?"

I can answer both of those questions. I know you did not ask the second one yourself but it is synonymous to the question you asked.

You earn them.

Just my opinion though :\