Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

[DarkbearX]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I just find it amusing that it's the same group of users who begin every series of complaint posts

nailed it lol. there will always be ppl who love to speak out against devs etc that's how the internet works.

[hi19hi19]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I'll elaborate, because out of context my posts in this thread so far could possibly just be construed as brainless trolling and I want to make it extremely clear where I am coming from.

Let's look at the _Zenith_ thread addressed by the OP:

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=140975

In this thread, the OP starts with a strongly worded attack on the staff.
There is no pretense of dialogue, no attempt to be diplomatic, nothing. It literally starts with the statement, "Staff is a joke for several reasons".

How the fuck is the staff supposed to respond to that?

And this is how most interactions between *certain users* and the staff go: blatant antagonizing with no intention at all of respectful dialogue.

Now as a staff member, we have two options: not respond (which is what the staff had been doing for years) and be accused of not having any transparency, not respecting the opinions of the userbase, being stagnant, etc.
Or, the staff can respond. But what happens when you respond to a troll? You inevitably get dragged down to their level by arguing. I happen to find it really funny when this happens, so I respond, and continue responding so long as the tone remains reasonably diplomatic. Most of the other staff members are actually too polite, or care too much about forum etiquette, to join me in doing this- I respect them for that, as everyone else should.

From here, it usually becomes apparent that the people complaining have a massive chip on their shoulder against the staff in general. No constructive dialogue happens, and the thread gets rightfully locked.


Obviously, shit talk is going to go down privately, because as Charu said, that's just human nature.
But the bigger problem is just the complete lack of faith and respect for the staff, and honestly, that's coming entirely from the users.

Ask AJ why he quit: hint, it's because the ratio of respect for the massive amount of work he put into the site versus the amount of unwarranted shit he got from unappreciative, entitled assholes just made it all not worth doing. After being staff for a while, I see where he's coming from.

If you guys want to talk, start by being polite. The staff will just continue doing our best work whether or not a bunch of idiots are spewing vitriol in the forums or not.

[dell2150]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I posted these in the FFR Friends chat but I might as well make it more public instead.

[3:21:28 PM] Samantha Dell: Most often I see users get out of hand with each other, usually because of someone shitposting intentionally or not. Other than that, trolling or saying something offensive to someone and causing trouble. Then staff will either eventually be required to intervene, or get pulled in by someone saying something about them.

[3:21:43 PM] Samantha Dell: or another possibility is staff trying to do something or ask the community for something and getting destroyed. Example, the codename thing. Every company does that. For Microsoft, they had "operation longhorn" for Vista, very very few knew what it was, and even some workers that were doing small tasks for it had no idea, and although I agree with choof I'd rather have information on "we are working on this, here's progress" I don't see reason why staff should've been shit on by community members being disrespectful.

[3:22:45 PM] Samantha Dell: If people stop being dicks, trolls, shitposting, and being memeing assholes, staff will not be required to bother them. Then if staff does have to do something, or something is unsatisfactory, staff does not have to be ripped to shreds for every little thing. They are not working for FFR. They are real people with real lives and have other things to do. This is a freaking hobby.

[3:23:01 PM] Samantha Dell: Everyone should learn to be thankful for the shit they put up with and everything they do accomplish. /end rant

[3:45:05 PM] Samantha Dell: Although I do say both are to blame, that's often to be expected of someone in a position to cast judgement. Everyone in a school hates the disciplinarian, but it's their job. If someone in a leadership position is being attacked, the choices are
a. fight back (least effective, causes problems in the long run, has happened with FFR staff definitely)
b. lock thread (happens like 324590 times a second)
c. delete thread (had to happen because of a shitposting storm)
d. take it and do nothing
None are necessarily good options, but they are (in essence) some of the only ones. So yes, staff are to blame for the disconnect as well but significantly (and I mean significantly) less than the userbase, especially the ones hi19 and Darkbear talking about that are almost the same ones flaming/complaining about things. I would enjoy seeing staff actually starting shit with users or causing the actual drama (not actually enjoy it, but I mean I haven't seen it personally and am interested in knowing if it happens or how often it does).

[3:46:11 PM | Edited 3:46:14 PM] Samantha Dell: Even with the purpose of the thread showing that both are to blame, in my opinion, it does still make the userbase look worse because most of the discussions and examples are in response to something the users did.

[ItsOnlyDanO]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

how hard is it to not be an asshole on the internet

[hi19hi19]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Further elaborating on the post above.

The staff would, in all honesty, be content to not say anything and just do our work. Staff members do not going around and publicly put down other users without provocation, because we have better shit to be doing. (Me responding to this thread is a result of having been clearly provoked. Seriously.)

Thus any negative staff-user interaction is started by a user.
And so it's even more of a slap in the face to construe the fact the staff is bothering to try to respond at all as it suddenly being the staff's fault.
The staff could not respond to anything- it happened that way for half a decade, really, and people complained about that too.

This is not something we "need to work on together", this is just a small and obnoxiously vocal part of the userbase needing to learn how to be polite. End of story.

[Gradiant]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I think pushing the blame entirely onto one group of people is the wrong way to go about this hi19.

[gold stinger]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Further elaborating on the post above.

The staff would, in all honesty, be content to not say anything and just do our work. Staff members do not going around and publicly put down other users without provocation, because we have better shit to be doing. (Me responding to this thread is a result of having been clearly provoked. Seriously.)

Thus any negative staff-user interaction is started by a user.
And so it's even more of a slap in the face to construe the fact the staff is bothering to try to respond at all as it suddenly being the staff's fault.
The staff could not respond to anything- it happened that way for half a decade, really, and people complained about that too.

This is not something we "need to work on together", this is just a small and obnoxiously vocal part of the userbase needing to learn how to be polite. End of story.

Just because a user/player is acting hostile towards an administrator, moderator, or a developer (which in some cases would have power) doesn't mean they should have to stoop to their level of arguing and complaining. That's part of acting professional, to keep a leveled head, take a neutral ground, make judgements on it, and try to understand it from their point of view much like I have been doing with mine for players in FFR TCG, and in the Wiki.

Not trying to call you out or anything on it, I think this could be a learning curve for Staff and users alike. The problem doesn't fall into hands of one person or group on this website.

[choof]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

he's not though lmao ???

[hi19hi19]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I think pushing the blame entirely onto one group of people is the wrong way to go about this hi19.

Feel free to say what you'd prefer to see.
But for god sake don't just start out with a blanket statement like "all staff members need to be kicked" because that's the shit I'm referring to with those two posts.

[Zageron]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

For now I'll just say that I believe the best solution is to be a team about it. Pointing blame in either direction is only going to cause more angst. Rather than figuring out what has happened, let's just fix it?

[awein999]

Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

<3 staff. I am among the majority of people that don't say much but really appreciate the work done.

@Thread: Lets not over-complicate negative situations that try to explain stuff that doesn't warrant attention. This only perpetuates perceptions of problems that are imaginary in the first place.

[Gradiant]

Re: Attention Staff &amp; Users: Please Stop Fighting

he's not though lmao ???

if this is referring to my post...
Okay then. Zenith made a sort of apology thread which may have not been worded in the best way. Instead of it being taken as it was meant to be taken, staff bash him over skype. Because clearly, staff was 'provoked' by an apology thread. One party can't complain about respect if they also do not give respect. This works for both sides. Saying that not being respected as staff is a slap in the face and blaming it on the users is both false (as shown by staff not respecting users as well through the skype bashing) and a bit immature i think.

[I like it]

Re: Attention Staff &amp; Users: Please Stop Fighting

Idk what's going on and I don't really care and everyone should have the same opinion cause in the end none of this really matters just be a good person and make this site enjoyable for everyone and however long its still going to be up.

[hi19hi19]

Re: Attention Staff &amp; Users: Please Stop Fighting

if this is referring to my post...
Okay then. Zenith made a sort of apology thread which may have not been worded in the best way. Instead of it being taken as it was meant to be taken, staff bash him over skype. Because clearly, staff was 'provoked' by an apology thread. One party can't complain about respect if they also do not give respect. This works for both sides. Saying that not being respected as staff is a slap in the face and blaming it on the users is both false (as shown by staff not respecting users as well through the skype bashing) and a bit immature i think.

I had nothing to say about the apology thread.
Read it, appreciated it for its intent, if not its execution, didn't reply.
That thread was not the issue I am talking about.

[_Zenith_]

Re: Attention Staff &amp; Users: Please Stop Fighting

1) First off, we would like to apologize to those who we will offend in this post. We understand that we will most likely be burning a bunch of bridges by posting this, and perhaps lose some good friends... but the elephants in the room need to be addressed so FFR can move on as either a company, or as a community project. We hope that this can be taken constructively, so FFR can grow and thrive. We understand that these leaks will most likely result in this thread being deleted, and/or us being banned and we accept all charges against us. But please know, that we are saying this to help FFR because this toxicity needs to be addressed and resolved, and hopefully this will become a self reflection for those inflicting harm on others to realize what they are doing to others.


2) Recently there have been numerous posts in threads where FFR users have been blatantly insulting the FFR staff, regardless if they are correct or not instead of approaching the issue in a diplomatic manner. These insults range from private PM's, to openly backhanding various staff members ignoring the opportunity to approach the problem with constructive criticism. Examples range such as this:

(To protect the identities and reputations of the individuals, all images have been censored.)

3) There also have been numerous threads where members of the FFR staff have used petty insults and inappropriate language describing members of the FFR community in public threads, instead of releasing neutral statements. Even in scenarios where neutral statements are posted, other staff members have not been acting to a professional level.
There also have been numerous nonprofessional acts that have taken place behind closed doors, such as through programs like skype, and slack. This has been going on for years now, all the way up to even today.


4) We strongly recommend that a level of professionalism be held, especially if the intention for FFR is to become successful. These petty insults and high school-esk drama filled rants on both sides need to be eliminated so the company can move on, and for both staff and users could be respected amongst one another. We also strongly recommend that criticism should be taken without hostility and retribution, but instead with care and thoughtful reason. Without the basics of cooperation, there is a minimal chance that FFR will survive.


5) Once again, we deeply apologize for those who we have insulted and hope the friendships we have gained are not tarnished because of this thread. We hope that this thread brings light to the issues so everyone on FFR can move on. But We do care for FFR, and wish for it's success. We are not asking for an apology, but more awareness to what both sides have been doing to each other, and how it hurts us to see our friends hurt one another. It's for these reasons why we have stopped making files, stopped making videos on this website, and have had little to no interest and motivation to help FFR. The hostility of our friends hurting one another is too overwhelming and exhausting when it could be easily avoided, and we want no part in a website where the foundation of the FFR community resides in these toxic principles.


(It would be ideal if this thread would remain constructive and diplomatic.)


- Xiz & Fission

1) I cannot stress this first section enough. I regret making the ATTN: FFRevolution thread because it came off more as an attack than a logical reasoning of "Hey, why are certain staff members inactive and not contributing like they should be" when in all honesty since I'm not a part of staff anymore, I have no idea what is going on in the backend. I am trying to organize this constructive apology because I want to be able to apologize, explain why, and move on.

I am apologizing for several reasons; mainly the reasons behind the ATTN: FFRevolution thread. I was upset, as a user of FFR and ex-member of the Event Staff, seeing how I was dishonorably discharged from the team for revealing an image (to profile chat) for the Scavenger Hunt back in October 2014 and for being Inactive too frequently to contribute much to the team. I agree that I should've been removed for all of those reasons and I hold no personal hatred to them as a team and as separate individuals. The emotions that drove the ATTN thread was due to hearing that more and more staff members were inactive and nothing was being done within the teams and that honestly drove me mad. The thread came off as an attack towards staff for inactivity along with a few other reasons, but I am trying my hardest to apologize right now because the way I worded everything was wrong in every way and made me seem like I have no idea what I'm talking about and why am I even speaking about it.

2) I feel as though we as a community need to have a lot more open discussions in a diplomatic way to not only learn about what the discussions/topics are about but also to move forward as FFR. I apologize for all hateful and or discriminating things that I have said about staff, to others about staff, or to others in general.

3) It is entirely true about what is said here. It's natural for behind door talking to occur, but it shouldn't affect the way FFR progresses. I think it is safe to say that we all hold FFR to heart because it's where some of us grew up. Also what Zageron said, we should really be working as a team to improve and move on with FFR.

4) If Staff is also willing to be more open and optimistic as well as not jumping to "That guy is an asshat or a shitlord or a dick or an asshole or whatever". I am coming out and apologizing legitly and not trying to cause anything to further cause this problem to BE a problem. All I want is to move on from here on out.

5) I also cannot stress this part the most besides the beginning paragraph. I don't employ that we keep personal hatreds towards each other as it keeps showing itself and cause a problem within the community and within staff. This is my apology to FFR in its entirety; community and staff. I do not plan nor have the desire to keep trying to start worthless fights when people when in absolute honesty I want to keep moving forward with FFR. We all have a say in this community as well as Staff having a lot of say because they are the ones who actually implement it into the site and game than creating the idea for what happens. I seriously do not want any more personal hatreds because I'm getting sick of ruining all of our names and our beliefs by keep posting aggressive posts rather than offering up constructive thoughts and being optimistic.

This is my only post in the thread, and I will not be posting again. I am absolutely sorry everyone and to anyone who reads this. I thank any and all Staff Members for everything you have contributed so far. The hard work isn't unnoticed; even if it seems like the bad qualities that staff has is being shown to the public. We as a community need the sense of improvement in recent times for not only one person but for EVERY person. Happy Easter Everyone!