How old is old enough?

[Wlfwnd91]

There's been a discussion in Chit Chat about 2 teens who were charged for possessing "risque" pictures of the other.

http://news.com.com/2100-1030_3-6157...-0-5&subj=news

And there's been a lot going on in there about how teenagers don't have good judgement and that they should be persecuted to teach them to not be so stupid in the future, and then there's those who believe that things kept between the privacy of the two who the pictures were taken of should be free to do as they wish.

There was a joke that Dave Chapelle did, where he was talking about this though, and the double standards that we old on teenagers. He was talking about how R. Kelly shouldn't have been charged for peeing on a 15 year old girl, because he believes that at 15 you should be able to know if you want to be peed on or not. Then he went on to talk about a 15 year old who was sentenced to life in prison because he accidentally killed his neighbor in a backyard wrestling thing. Long story short, he thinks that if you can put a 15 year old in prison for life for accidentally killing his neighbor, then you should respect the girl's right to get peed on, since you apparently believe 15 year olds are mature enough to make their own decisions.

That laid the foundation for the argument, if there's anything in there that should be reworded, ask and I'll try to explain it differently.

So the question is, how old is old enough to make your own decisions and have to face the consequences that the law hands out to one who we now consider an adult?

___________________

My opinion-

I think that there are plenty of teenagers who can't make good judgement, but I also believe that there's PLENTY of adults who can't make good judgement either. I think there's a point in time where we know what the law is, and where we know what we want, and I think that 15 or 16ish is when we should be able to make our own decisions with what we want to do with our body, as in if you want some rapper to pee on you, the rapper shouldn't be put through trial for it. But, in that, I also believe that they should be charged the same as an adult in certain instances, as if they end up killing someone. If you're 15 or 16, you shouldn't be able to do what you want overall, but you should stop babying them. If they want to have sex, you're not gonna be able to stop them. So, I think once you come to...I'll say 16, you oughta be charged as an adult for the decisions you make, but also, all laws that applied to minors (other than drinking and smoking) should not apply anymore.

Now this is the critical thinking thread, so if anyone disagrees I'd like to hear it and I'm more than open to changing my mind about any of it. (Sorry bout the length...if you read this far)

[unclejeffrocorey]

I'd say A huge majority of people at the age of 18 can't even come close to making right decisions because of the way way today society is, but I do highly agree that 15, or 16, is about the age that you should be able to do what you want.

[gonzo4life44]

Even though the legal "adult" age is 18, I do belive 16 is more average with todays society.

Im 100% sure that by the age of 16, teens have the maturity, knowings, and mental thoughts of an 18 year old. I, myself, am 18. I did almost the exact things i did when I was 16. The only differece is that I can stay out as long as i want now. When I was 16, i snuk into clubs, drank, and even went into a stipclub (i loved my fake id).

I do belive though 16 should be the new 18..

[purebloodtexan]

Hmm.........I kinda agree with your statement, Wlfwnd.

Here's a decent story....which unfortunately happened right after my brother's birthday:

My brother currently goes to University of Texas at Dallas, and got in a car accident a few weeks ago. The left wheel was caved in, so he didn't have a car. We went to 3 dealerships, and they weren't quite up to our standards - for example, one said that he wanted 18,000 and then bumped it up to about 20,000 excluding additional charges. So we decided to go to Enterprise and Rent-A-Car to get a temporary vehicle.

Now, here's the bull**** part: In order to even get a car under your name, you have to be 21, and to have a 2nd driver, that 2nd driver has to be 25.

Do you really need to be over 20 to know how to properly drive? I know friends that have been streetracing and/or go-karting since they were 13. My neighbor has been getting lessons since he was 11 years old.

Now, all that isn't necessarily legal, but it goes to show that age doesn't determine skill.

[JKPolk]

21. I still don't feel like I can make the right choices half the time, and that's not from an excess of immaturity. It's from a lack of experience in the real world.

[Chrissi]

I'm going with 21 as well.

[Magnafiend]

I say it all depends on the person. 18 seems to be the average number. Some people are very mature for their age at 15 or 16 and can handle themselves quite well. Some 21 year olds still act like jr high students, pulling childish pranks and laughing at fart jokes. it all depends on the person and their environment.

[JKPolk]

But since we can't really have individualized age laws, I think we should go with what's already in place in most states and stick with 21.

[Wlfwnd91]

Now, keep in mind, I never said that at the age of 16 people can make the right decisions. (If I did then...void it) But, what I'm saying is that there's a huge double standard in the law, and they sometimes say that 16 year olds can make their own decisions and other times they can't. I believe that 90% of the world (if that) can make the right decisions for the best of them, and for other people, despite how old they are. I know 40 or 50 year olds who are immature and stupid. What I'm saying is that generally at the age of 16 you know basically what you're doing when it comes to stupid stuff like taking naked pictures of yourself or having sex. The only reason why you should charge someone for rape against you, is if you've actually been raped (16+ keep in mind). I do believe that 18-21 should be the legal age when it comes to Drinking, alcohol, and moving out. But, other then that, 16+ oughta be more than enough. Either that or quit charging 16 year olds with one thing, saying they have the common sense to make that decision, and not charging them with another, saying they DON'T have the common sense. The law simply needs to make up its mind, is what I'm trying to get at here.

[0:)]

Originally Posted by Magnafiend

I say it all depends on the person. 18 seems to be the average number. Some people are very mature for their age at 15 or 16 and can handle themselves quite well. Some 21 year olds still act like jr high students, pulling childish pranks and laughing at fart jokes. it all depends on the person and their environment.

Even some 46 year olds do that. (My uncle -_-)

But yeah, at least 21.

[GuidoHunter]

18, period.

While I agree with Polk and Chrissi that 21 would cover a larger group of people, I think that group would be in the minority at 18, and thus making the age 21 would screw more people out of things than raising the age would include.

But 16, though? Hahahahahaha. There is an ENORMOUS difference between 16 and 18. It wasn't until I was 19 or 20 that I noticed this, though, and seeing the ages of the people responding in this thread is quite interesting.

As a sixteen-year-old, I would have sworn up and down that I was mature and responsible enough for myself, but twenty-two-year-old me says, "Don't even THINK about giving that kid [me at sixteen] any sort of responsibility, because he damn sure can't handle it as well as he thinks."

As for fifteen: no way, no how. Sixteen is a pretty major turning point in maturity, though not near as big as eighteen. If you say legal ages should be put at fifteen, you might as well be saying eleven.

Originally Posted by purebloodtexan

Now, here's the bull**** part: In order to even get a car under your name, you have to be 21, and to have a 2nd driver, that 2nd driver has to be 25.

Do you really need to be over 20 to know how to properly drive? I know friends that have been streetracing and/or go-karting since they were 13. My neighbor has been getting lessons since he was 11 years old.

You seen, in America, we have something called a "legal system" and the concept of "property". People like to protect their "property", and one easy way to do that is to keep their "property" out of the hands of teenagers and other young drivers.

That's not bull**** or stupid in the slightest. It put a serious damper on my parents' honeymoon, but hey, rental car companies would like to retain their expensive capital.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Wlfwnd91]

I think this whole topic is subject to interpretation, because there's plenty of 40 year olds that can be grouped with 11 year olds. Maturity doesn't come with age, although for the majority that is a factor, because of life experiences. As I've said, I don't think 16 is old enough to make good decisions, but I should have been more clear in the fact that this is about how the law treats different situations with minors, and how they refuse to remain consistent. Most people are idiots Guido, I wouldn't trust a 16 year old with any more responsibility than I would entrust a 21 year old, cause the fact of the matter is that, people...are...stupid. Age only makes them seem less stupid, for whatever reason. once again, I do NOT believe 16 year olds can make the right decisions, but I DO believe that we should give them more rights, considering the fact that we treat them like adults, but then talk to them like they're children. Either treat them like 10 year olds or treat them like 20 year olds.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Wlfwnd91

Maturity doesn't come with age

Yes it does. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but only in rare cases does it not. It is safe to assume that a twenty-one year old is a thousand times more mature than a sixteen year old, because in 99% of cases, this is true.

Either treat them like 10 year olds or treat them like 20 year olds.

Okay, so you're upset at the double standard. I can buy that, but I still disagree, as I think some things are to be taken case-by-case. Should a sixteen year old be completely responsible for the consequences of his decisions on the matter of sexual relations and other life-changing decisions? No. Should a sixteen year old be responsible if he kills a man in cold blood? Yes. You learn that a lot earlier.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[sherbtail]

Originally Posted by Magnafiend

I say it all depends on the person. 18 seems to be the average number. Some people are very mature for their age at 15 or 16 and can handle themselves quite well. Some 21 year olds still act like jr high students, pulling childish pranks and laughing at fart jokes. it all depends on the person and their environment.

For the record, fart jokes, never, ever lose their hilarity


As a 17 (18 in 1 month, muahaha) I'm pretty happy with the laws we have here in the UK
I'm pretty sure there is nothing you can't do after the age of 18, you are a fully fledged adult here. Also sex and cigarettes become legal at 16, although the cigarette age is being upped to 18, a good thing in my opinion, although unfortunately many people under the age of 18 are already addicted to nicotine and when that law change hits there will be problems (but that's a topic for another day)
So yeah, everything here becomes legal at 18 and I think it is a good way to have things, sure, some people are going to be mature before then, and some long after, but that's just the way it is...

The only thing I think is a bit iffy in this area is if two 15 year olds have sex they are breaking the law kinda but no one would ever bat an eyelid, however if a 17 and a 15 year old have sex then it constitutes rape. I don't know, I just think that's kind of wrong

[xObserveRx]

I have to agree with Wlf on this one.

The age of someone usually DOES affect their maturity to a certain extent, but I believe that maturity varies greatly with the individual. There are certain people I know who are in their mid teens who I feel are mature and whom I would trust with personal things whereas I know some of my friends' parents who couldn't take care of a cabbage patch doll, let alone a child.

What maturity IS, varies by the individual as well. To me maturity is not a specific thing that is always happening. It's something that comes out in someone from time to time, when a situation calls for it. However, there are certain lower levels of maturity that certainly are always present. These types are the ones that handle common sense vs. adventurous type feelings (IE. Driving your car down the highway in a normal manner, saying things about someone when you probably shouldn't, etc.).

So yeah, maturity at a certain level does usually come with age (and life experience) but for the most part, at some point, common sense is going to kick in and tell you that what you're doing is stupid and/or wrong. This seems to happen at many different ages, not one in particular. But since we can't just have "the right age to make a mature decision" be different for everyone, I think it's safe to say that at about 18 or 19, (for the most part; drinking and stupid stuff like that aside, as you eventually outgrow the adventurous drinking rampages) you're able to make rational and mature decisions for yourself.

[Shashakiro]

To be with other underage: 14

To be with overage: 16

"Of age": 18

IMO.

Note that this is assuming you're talking about what it should be LEGALLY. I think there's a HUGE difference between what it should be LEGALLY and what it should be practically, or morally.

[JKPolk]

One of the largest things that brings about a change in maturity is having a real job. I'm not talking a McDonald's shift once a week after your study hall. I'm talking a full fledged, 40 hour a week job that honestly requires effort. I was a stonemason's apprentice last summer and I'll tell you what, I matured more during that summer than at any point in my life.

I truly learned the value of money and especially how to behave in tricky situations. You learn what the right and wrong times are for certain things, and what their effects are. Getting a job that matters is about forty life lessons packed into one suppository pill.

Those rich, spoiled kids you see on TV? Never had a real job. Immature. Get a job, work at it for months and do well, and then look back at yourself 2 years ago and tell me how mature you really think you were at that time.

[Reach]

Well, chronological age is different from mental age. You can't say how mature someone is by knowing how old they are. Of course people get more mature with age, but that doesn't mean there arn't younger people that are already twice as mature as some people over the legal limit.

That's the problem, in a nutshell. Chronological age doesn't tell you the mental age of someone, so how much responsibility someone should be able to carry varies greatly within a population. Things that bring about maturity also vary greatly.

I was mature at 16. Mature enough to make smart, solid decisions. Am I wiser and more knowledgable now? Yes, of course. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have had any responsibility at that age.

However, 18 is probably a safer age to apply to an entire population when talking about 'legal' issues, but people under this age should still be held responsible for their actions. As far as I know, mental development stops between the age of 16 and 18 in most people, so 21 to me seems irrelevant. People of age 18 are capable of being just as mature as anyone else is, but since wisdom and knowledge are gained over time naturally people that are older are more developed in these areas.

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

You seen, in America, we have something called a "legal system" and the concept of "property". People like to protect their "property", and one easy way to do that is to keep their "property" out of the hands of teenagers and other young drivers.

That's not bull**** or stupid in the slightest. It put a serious damper on my parents' honeymoon, but hey, rental car companies would like to retain their expensive capital.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

My brother is probably the best driver that I know. Age doesn't determine the driver, that's what I'm saying.

I might've sounded a bit one-sided earlier. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that they should look a bit further than the age of a person to determine how responsible he/she is. That said, I'm still on Wolf's side: Age isn't the absolute indicator of maturity.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by purebloodtexan

My brother is probably the best driver that I know. Age doesn't determine the driver, that's what I'm saying.

Tell that to insurance companies.

Maybe what I'm trying to say is that they should look a bit further than the age of a person to determine how responsible he/she is.

Yes, rental car companies are going to require driving tests of all their customers to see exactly how they will treat the rental car under every circumstance. That's ludicrous.

My friend got a rental car when he was 20 because his other car was in the shop and he was allowed to rent through his insurance company. He's a fine driver, and would easily pass for responsible, but since it was just a rental car he drove the **** out of it, went and did donuts and other things to it.

So how, praytell, do you think a company should determine maturity of its customers? Keep in mind that they still have a business to run and customer service to consider.

Age isn't the absolute indicator of maturity.

Of course it's not; nobody's ever suggested otherwise!

It IS, however, the best way to draw the line, and until you can come up with a better, realistic way, you're spinning your wheels.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com