TWG 209: Jeff's Just Here to Party GAME THREAD

[star-crossed]

All right, your thoughts on roundbox's Subaru town lean post then?

Also, I am going to flip to blindreper because we know he knows the game is started and he was only here to say sup.

[JinxGrace]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Haha nice, a sort of alter ego. This is a pretty old internet community so there is some unique terminology I think mixed with some of the usual. You will probably notice that from reading the rules too. Hmmm, about me? I sometimes ask a lot of questions hoping that that little bit more detail gets me closer to what the mind frame was. I think I am a bit more competitive and serious than some others, but not really in a domineering way, I do not think.


This is what I would notice with Town of Salem actually, is anybody who a train actually gets going quickly on is not very likely to be mafia. I think in a game like this, part of what makes the analysis so interesting is the exceptions that can arise. The way the mafia are biased by knowing who is mafia, influences their decision making about how much they can get away with defending the other mafia.


Honestly I never really thought about it from this perspective at all. I do not myself feel organic on d0 and so I do not think to look at that in others. However, I must be extra organic right now, because I am half asleep.

I had brought up the possibility of us coming up with an immunity challenge as a conversation topic (not sure if you are familiar with survivor or not; somebody can explain more if you are not.) roundbox suggested we have an art contest.

Not as familiar with what survivor is here. It means something different where I’m from.

Maybe not feeling organic on D1 is from anxiety of meeting people? Game starting? Guilty conscious?

[JinxGrace]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

I might even make use of the forbidden multi quote function that I usually never touch because it's ass to use on phone

I’m playing on phone and I feel this a bit

[JinxGrace]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

I appreciate the dedication to the bit




There's some nuance here that I feel needs to be said. While I've come around from the old days where I just wanted to wholesale toss inactives out early, I feel there needs to be some pressure or threat to draw some of them in.

Yes there are people who are genuinely afk for one reason or another and nothing will change that, but I feel the threat of accumulating votes is needed to keep low activity players who arnt helping solve the game in line, or give them something to respond to (people who don't feel like they have anything to say can usually at least respond defensively to a direct attack or vote). If you take that off the table you could potentially have a bunch of people just not do anything, the high post high effort players cannibalize themselves and it just becomes a dead game where wolves coasting to victory or dying becomes more of a matter of luck. It's a balancing act to maintain, I feel like you also understand this and it will be interesting to see how you put this principle into practice, I will definitely be bringing it up when if or when its relevant come eod.




I multi quoted this, but this feeds back into the previous post. I guess I'll add a few more of my thoughts. If you gave me a gun and told me to shoot anyone alive right now, I think I would never hit someone with 0 posts. Someone who is inactive can always come back, but killing someone freezes their content and people's reactions to it. Even if it feels bad to do like I was saying before, I think you go after people you are either suspicious of or have a lot of interactions with. The trap is it feels like a "waste" to kill someone who is active when inactives are standing right beside them, but the worst case for game health is locking in a kill on a 0 content player and losing a chance to make a kill that can lead to connections and possibly a wolf kill later even if it ends up being a miss. The voting process is also a trove of information that gets wasted when people just park votes on inactives where they don't have to defend their votes because it's seen as "common sense."

I guess I'm still trying to come to grips with where i stand on it atm in a stream of consciousness style. I think I'm mostly on the side of Roundbox in this one.




Just a reiteration of what he said before, I think Roundbox is also trying to find the correct nuance on how to approach this issue. There needs to be some pressure, but it can't be a free ticket for people to just coast on d0 and not have to think or defend their choice of vote.

Threat of early vote could also make them disappear more? “Mentality of eh I don’t like my role, they being aggressive, later peeps?”

On the other hand, it’s hard to reward people who disappear when you have people who are actually playing the game. (I just learned in ToTH about policy lynches like lynch all liars) and I almost feels it leans toward a policy philosophy where ppl that want to play vs people who signed up but dont

Also not sure if I understand why focus on round box?

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by JinxGrace

Not as familiar with what survivor is here. It means something different where I’m from.

Maybe not feeling organic on D1 is from anxiety of meeting people? Game starting? Guilty conscious?

Survivor is a reality game TV series that is getting close to reaching 50 U.S. seasons where people travel to an island, compete in challenges and vote each other off of the island. Jeff Probst is the host of it and so this game is kind of themed around it. There are some other countries that have their own version of the show too. raeko offered us the option of basically competing to win role powers, but we are instead playing a more standard game. The TV show also has immunity challenges where you can gain safety from being voted off, so the idea was that whoever the best artist was, we would consider not voting out of the game D0. Haha.

In a short game style where everybody is there together at the same time, I do not feel this as much. But in a TWG game D0, I really want to get things moving as soon as possible to having an atmosphere where we have a fair chance at getting a wolf out. But because you generally start without info, I feel that you can often get started by kind of nitpicking things that you might not care about if it were later on in a game. Basically whatever out of what has happened so far, that I can see they might have had a different approach to as one alignment or the other. So the getting the conversation going can feel forced to me even from my side, and then you are trying to evaluate if other people are forcing things to advance the game state because they too don't know anything, or if they are faking it. It is also sort of anxiety yes, but more about not wanting to let down whoever I am sided with.

[Tps222]

so what kind of metas are possible in this mystery closed setup? what's considered more straightforward at this point than previous games?

with full role flips, I think we're less likely to see role claims unless someone's on the chopping block. It's at that point that I'm interested in understanding the realm of possibilities that could be possible.

[Tps222]

On the other hand it might be beneficial to leave things as vague as possible until at least after n1, just to take the temperature of things before gunning for anything in particular.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by Tps222

so what kind of metas are possible in this mystery closed setup? what's considered more straightforward at this point than previous games?

with full role flips, I think we're less likely to see role claims unless someone's on the chopping block. It's at that point that I'm interested in understanding the realm of possibilities that could be possible.

I am not sure if I know exactly what you mean by metas. Mystery mostly means that we don't have any public info on what the roles are. Since raeko said there is nothing crazy, it is more likely that there are two mafia and the rest town, and a lack of unusual roles or mechanics.

Some mystery games we have done kind of recently are:
- Africa Feeble:Mind Metaphor Turbo - Everybody had a special role, with a bit of an emphasis on extra secret chat mechanics. Included someone who could win either with town or by getting to final 3, and people thought it was funny there was a wolf fruit vendor.
- The Museum of International Recreational Activities (TWG 202) - This was a 10 player game where the first day was basically a fake out and nobody had role messages. It was a bit themed after Among Us, so it started with a night kill and had no special roles. It was really hard for town to work together because we could not even agree when the game had actually started and then we had no role info to help either.
- TWG 200 - Dichotomy - this was a really weird anniversary game that was kind of a massive fake out where we were trying to find the real 'mastermind' at the end that knew it was all fake. I do not not even know how to sum it up.

All of those I would consider at least a little crazy. There is also usually less room for craziness, in designing a 9 player game.

[star-crossed]

I think the last game raeko modded might have been her one with roundbox (Survivor: Newfoundland, which did not have special roles, and was a lot like what the other plan was for this game.) So he might have more insight than others on what she might think is not crazy, but I do not know what he will want to share with everybody.

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Sorry folks I am an idiot and was staring at the sign up thread going ok when are we gonna start.

I will outwardly blame the Lasik I got yesterday, but we all know it was stupidity.

Anyway, seeing how this is my first game with all of you (well many of you)... when given the normal vanilla townie tag, how do all of you traditionally act?

Since I dont have a basic playstyle to look out for might help to get your opinions on yourself lol. Or at least drive some conversations or debates!

[Lahkesis]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Bonehicans and Lahkesis didn't pass the 24h test

I will vote Lahkesis because I can make a joke by telling you to start looking at this thread instead of that other thread
This one is clearly more important

Star's got a point about not pressuring inactives (and freezin too), so I'll put my money where my mind is and vote it up

I'm just getting the chance to get caught up with the thread, but I guess I'll start with this just by asking roundbox what they meant with "looking at that other thread." Like wut other thread? lol

Also can I be honest to say that roundbox having such a direct day 1 meta break down their very first post kind of put me up in ???

For example Roundbox saying "I reFUUUUSE to be wolf read this game," made it sound a bit more like "Hey I'm not the baddie this game, I swear!" Followed by the next post giving the Day1 inactives a free pass as though to almost say "Let's keep the sheep alive as longgg as possible TILL I SAY OTHERWISE."

Not sure how to take it...not enough yet to cast a vote against Roundbox for that reason.....but did anyone get a weird vibe for how this person came off in their first post.

Also why me for a first vote right away out of everyone else? Pretty sure there are more inactives....and also is it not custom for at least one wolf to be announcingly active for the early first pages in the game to at least get their "leg in the door" or what have you.


I'll catch up on the rest of the thread in a few when I feel more awake. Trying not to cram all my meta into one post so I can at least make post count lol



Oh one last thing to answer someone elses question: I have played mafia twg on other sites before...I haven't been able to find a nice simple game in a long while though so I dove into this. PARATROOPER STYLE

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Seems like there was a debate on what to do with inactive vs active is what I missed.

So here's comes some thoughts from someone who was just inactive... lucky me!

I have always felt that an inactive is your safe bet vote. Like "oh no, I dont want to stir the pot, so let's vote that person who isn't posting much!"

The inactive may come out and try to defend like oh no I am sorry, but if the train is coming its too late. I have seen it where:

oh they must be a wolf because they arent even defending themselves all that hard!

But honestly, you flipped green townie. Your power is to vote. You have 4 votes against you for missing a post. Whose making a FDR speech to save themselves there?

I think the tell is, who is trying to start that train on an inactive? Its an easy day 1 Lynch that doesn't require any real dialogue and usually leads to an 0-2 start for the humans with no new info on day 2.

I dont think there really is any context where the inactive on day 1 is fishy. People have work, people have lives, people may not have gotten to the forum in time. And usually a cool role makes someone more active because they have some power.

I dont get a vibe that the conversation on the inactives was an attempt to vote them out. But something to watch for if we are getting closer to night and it starts turning that way.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by LastOfTheBonehicans

Sorry folks I am an idiot and was staring at the sign up thread going ok when are we gonna start.

I will outwardly blame the Lasik I got yesterday, but we all know it was stupidity.

Anyway, seeing how this is my first game with all of you (well many of you)... when given the normal vanilla townie tag, how do all of you traditionally act?

Since I dont have a basic playstyle to look out for might help to get your opinions on yourself lol. Or at least drive some conversations or debates!

Hi, I would like to debate you on why you want to know about vanilla town as opposed to town in general. In my case, I think I have spoken to my style a bit in prior messages, so if you have a more specific followup question for me you may let me know.

Originally Posted by Lahkesis

I'm just getting the chance to get caught up with the thread, but I guess I'll start with this just by asking roundbox what they meant with "looking at that other thread." Like wut other thread? lol

Also can I be honest to say that roundbox having such a direct day 1 meta break down their very first post kind of put me up in ???

For example Roundbox saying "I reFUUUUSE to be wolf read this game," made it sound a bit more like "Hey I'm not the baddie this game, I swear!" Followed by the next post giving the Day1 inactives a free pass as though to almost say "Let's keep the sheep alive as longgg as possible TILL I SAY OTHERWISE."

Not sure how to take it...not enough yet to cast a vote against Roundbox for that reason.....but did anyone get a weird vibe for how this person came off in their first post.

Also why me for a first vote right away out of everyone else? Pretty sure there are more inactives....and also is it not custom for at least one wolf to be announcingly active for the early first pages in the game to at least get their "leg in the door" or what have you.


I'll catch up on the rest of the thread in a few when I feel more awake. Trying not to cram all my meta into one post so I can at least make post count lol



Oh one last thing to answer someone elses question: I have played mafia twg on other sites before...I haven't been able to find a nice simple game in a long while though so I dove into this. PARATROOPER STYLE

Haha looking forward to hearing more from you. I took roundbox's initial messages in a jovial way.

[star-crossed]

Some random thoughts.

Subaru - I have warmed up a bit about his initial posting. I think the way he has come back and reread and gleaned different things has seemed natural enough.

Freezin - The uncharitable outlook on his posting would be that he claimed he was interested in interactions and then immediately dipped, didn't give any opinion on roundbox's only actual read despite all the focus there. Also, the wanting to solve the game with roundbox idea may have been planned before he knew what his role was.

Jinx- Possibly of note, said they are interested in investigating but has had a more conversational outlook than commenting on the more game centered posts in depth, I feel.

Lahkesis - Entertaining posting style and maybe a bit reactive. I think that it can be a red flag to nitpick things that are weird but not necessarily sus (this is my opinion of the roundbox analysis) but I do not mind it much in this context.

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Hi, I would like to debate you on why you want to know about vanilla town as opposed to town in general. In my case, I think I have spoken to my style a bit in prior messages, so if you have a more specific followup question for me you may let me know.

Totally fair! I used vanilla townie because its usually that default mindset. No extra power set, not night time shenanigans, and no need to play things coy. As a vanilla townie, one without any seer, guarding, etc. powers, there really isn't an incentive to be low-key other than boredom.

At the time of the post, I didnt want to have anyone soft claim any power roles. But looking back at the sign ups, that is anyone whose not a wolf this game. Unless they win a power like survivor? If i am grasping that concept right.

I can certainly see based on early observations that you are active and guide relevant conversations. Not the normal chit chat you may see in a day one or night one.

Happy to dive in more if you wanted to ask more questions or had any observations.

[star-crossed]

I guess just as a point of order since this may or may not be clear to you (and you do not have to say whether it was or not), the mod offered us two game type options

1) Game with out of thread conversation and you can win special powers by winning a challenge - so nobody has powers to begin with
2) Game with in thread based discussion with mystery roles but "nothing too crazy"

The mod was under the impression we were not in favour of 1 so this game is option 2.

Sure, I can ask a couple of questions-
1) Is there anything you are confused on that has come up?
2) Do you have any initial feelings on anyone's behaviour?
3) Is there any of the players I know (Subaru, Freezin, blind, roundbox) that you would like to know more context of their style, or are you more curious of how they describe themselves?

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I guess just as a point of order since this may or may not be clear to you (and you do not have to say whether it was or not), the mod offered us two game type options

1) Game with out of thread conversation and you can win special powers by winning a challenge - so nobody has powers to begin with
2) Game with in thread based discussion with mystery roles but "nothing too crazy"

The mod was under the impression we were not in favour of 1 so this game is option 2.

Sure, I can ask a couple of questions-
1) Is there anything you are confused on that has come up?
2) Do you have any initial feelings on anyone's behaviour?
3) Is there any of the players I know (Subaru, Freezin, blind, roundbox) that you would like to know more context of their style, or are you more curious of how they describe themselves?

Gotcha! I had just skimmed the rule set.

As for the answers:

1. Nothing confusing. Very day 1 chat. Nothing really going on. Ive played on and off for years, but this is my first game since maybe Covid times.

2. Nothing that can lean one way or another. But first impressions are as follows.

You - seem like an active prescence here. Not afraid to drive conversation and ask questions. Probably are very well respected in this community and game, so that could be something to keep an eye on if a sketchy charge is led by you. However, says more town than wolf. You're not stirring the pot, but you aren't hiding behind false activity.

Tps - asking decent questions if this is the first they're playing here. Trying to get a vibe of the community or playstyles. Nothing shouting either way. But, also no follow up post questions. Enough to be present and point to if called out, but nothing deeper than surface level.

Subaru - hard read here. One second I am thinking sketchy and the next I think they're fine. Similar to your take, they are trying to see other sides which would either say 1. Being careful and logical or 2. Not trying to stir up trouble. I lean towards 1 right now

Lehkesis - you could make a jump that he was borderline defensive there, but it would lean towards safe. Its an easy thing to point to and say you're half. You're nitpicking trying to get a quick lynch. However, first post being that aggressive?

(Not saying they were aggressive but more so than a typical "howdy fellow town folks" you'd see)

Jinx - kind of beat around the bush on a i would never kill an inactive but we should pressure them. I tend to lean towards an inactive losing interest because they didn't get a role or something happened to them irl.

Now if someone was inactive for a phase or 2 and magically decided ok let's play this like Bobby Fischer, then yeah sketchy. Still engaged in real debate though, so nothing weird per se yet.

Freezin - active and is toeing the line between chit chat and engaged game talk. Nothing weird here.

Roundbox - similar to Freezin. Both are giving off decent vibes or at least neutral right now.

Blindreper - the only one that if I had to choose right now this second id say maybe. Posted enough to give the optics of playing, but nothing said had any substance to it. More of wait and see... time zones could play a factor and it was early game.

I think i hit everyone.

3. Just want to hear how each person would describe their style. Always interesting to see how people describe themselves.

[Lahkesis]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Hi, I would like to debate you on why you want to know about vanilla town as opposed to town in general. In my case, I think I have spoken to my style a bit in prior messages, so if you have a more specific followup question for me you may let me know.



Haha looking forward to hearing more from you. I took roundbox's initial messages in a jovial way.

I did agree when I read this that I found bonehican's way of describing his inactives theory a bit strange...but idk how I would parse what the "intent" would be...is it considered like possible reverse psychology to come off this way first post? Or is he describing his ideas as a hypothetical scenario almost from like a 3rd person PoV...interesting.

As per roundbox, I feel that yeah I could either go 50% towards "he must be up to something with coming out in his first posts with that style," or either like you said, "he's just being jovial and trying to stir up the pot a bit to get posting rolling along" Something worth addressing as the day progresses but it feels too early right now to lay the pressure.



As for like...something to contribute otherwise...

I don't know if I've seen anyone really try to address hypothetical ideas when it comes to the possible roles out there, other than stating it's a mystery game.

As in...what kind of roles seem likely with a game consisting of 9 players, when the host themselves have said it's mostly a pure vanilla kind of game.

^Does it seem more likely that there would be two wolves or one? I cannot imagine there being more than two wolves max, and I bet theyre vanilla wolves if anything. I would think one wolf is too vulnerable. Not to mention that the host posted that there is a wolf chat rule that's always on....Given the number of players and this alone, I'm somewhat convinced that there are a total of 2 wolves.

If there's 2 wolves then I'm guessing there is but one blue role floating out there somewhere. That's why there won't be any claim bc who would protect them.

In terms of blue roles, I'm guessing it's either a guard or a seer...but I'm leaning towards a guardian. A seer seems perfectly possible, but I feel like this would cause the game to advance too quick rather than leave us in the dark....too many questions would be solved way too quick with a seer imo...

Unless the possible blue roll is something out of mafia that is more obscure I don't know.

I'll be back with more soon when Im back at my pc.

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I am surprised you blanked Freezin who is sucking up to you right now

I did give him a tiny shoutout, but iunno how else to react to Freezin making declarations for his own game
regrettably I wasn't interacting in real time(TM), but now that everyone has tossed in their 2c, this game is for real

Originally Posted by Tps222

On the other hand it might be beneficial to leave things as vague as possible until at least after n1, just to take the temperature of things before gunning for anything in particular.

knowing raeko, when the OP says "very basic game", it probably has roles a beginner to TWG would know, so I would assume there's no secret chat mechanics or things like that outside of the traditional wolf chat

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I think the last game raeko modded might have been her one with roundbox (Survivor: Newfoundland, which did not have special roles, and was a lot like what the other plan was for this game.) So he might have more insight than others on what she might think is not crazy, but I do not know what he will want to share with everybody.

Survivor: Newfoundland had immunity and reward challenges that gave bonuses and powers, and it doesn't seem like any of those gimmicks are present here
I still say we throw an art contest, but I can't decide on a theme. I say someone who has played less than 5 games on FFR should pick the theme.

Originally Posted by LastOfTheBonehicans

Anyway, seeing how this is my first game with all of you (well many of you)... when given the normal vanilla townie tag, how do all of you traditionally act?

speak freely, mostly
I feel a bit more reserved as a wolf and that I need to find a specific point to argue about to post, but I'm more likely to be more casual as a townie. if I'm being mad formal, I might be a wolf tbh
my posts take just a little longer as a wolf since I have to double check I didn't contradict a read I made earlier

Originally Posted by Lahkesis

1. I'm just getting the chance to get caught up with the thread, but I guess I'll start with this just by asking roundbox what they meant with "looking at that other thread." Like wut other thread? lol

2. Also can I be honest to say that roundbox having such a direct day 1 meta break down their very first post kind of put me up in ???

For example Roundbox saying "I reFUUUUSE to be wolf read this game," made it sound a bit more like "Hey I'm not the baddie this game, I swear!" Followed by the next post giving the Day1 inactives a free pass as though to almost say "Let's keep the sheep alive as longgg as possible TILL I SAY OTHERWISE."

3. Also why me for a first vote right away out of everyone else? Pretty sure there are more inactives....and also is it not custom for at least one wolf to be announcingly active for the early first pages in the game to at least get their "leg in the door" or what have you.

1. it was a play on your username

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachesis

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Lachesis, in ancient Greek religion, was the middle of the Three Fates; the others were her sisters, Clotho and Atropos. Lachesis is the measurer of the thread spun on Clotho's spindle, and in some texts, determines Destiny, or thread of life.

2. ideally, we wouldn't have inactives. it's more of a policy thing for me than anything. Definitely not a rule by any means.
I'm not trying to be thread leader by telling people when not to vote inactives, I just think moves like that are misguided. People can vote however they want; it's their only power.
What do you mean when you say "sheep"? Not a term I'm familiar with.
but yeah, I don't care if I'm wolf read this game. I was just being clowny, full stop

3. it was because I could make my joke in #1

gonna go get some food

blindreper hello

[roundbox]

I agree with Lakhesis's analysis of the setup. I think that's the most likely (2 wolves, 1 blue). But yeah, something simple like Doctor/Guardian or Seer/Cop. I don't know what terms everyone uses, but yeah, there you go