04-26-2021, 03:31 PM | #1 |
!🤖💥👾!
Community Manager
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 160
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FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
Hey all. I thought of this idea at some point last year and I haven't seen something of this nature proposed before. I was inactive for years before 2020, so my apologies if this has been suggested in some way already. The idea is as follows:
Each player would have a separate top 100 list that resets annually. This new list would contain the best scores acquired during the respective year. Each individual score would use the same AAA equivalency formula from the lifetime top 100 list to represent your level. The overall level for a user would be representative of all 100 scores in the list. (Your overall level from this system wouldn't revolve around a top 5 or top 15 formula like the lifetime top 100.) Purely my opinion but I suggest 100 scores because it seems like an appropriate metric for measuring the overall skill of a user in this context. (More room for different skillsets.) It relates to FFR's current lifetime leaderboard format and it hits a "Goldilocks" zone of not too many acquirable scores but not too few for a year for my taste. I also believe that it would make the most sense to use every score in the list for producing a rank of this nature even if the number wasn't 100. I'm suggesting simply averaging the individual levels for the scores involved, but I'm completely open to other formulas of generating the overall level. The benefit of this system could be on a couple fronts. Returning (and even active) players would have a better idea on where they presently stand as this list would show their best scores as they actively play. A user can use this as another way of assessing a returning player's "actual" skill. (No more scores showing "x years ago" until the end of time.) Additionally, it creates incentive for possibly changing competition each year. (Maybe some official rewards as well?) In short, the idea is to have a second top 100 that represents how we play "right now" compared to how others play in the same moment, and not just comparing the best scores everyone has ever gotten. Hopefully I described the idea well enough. Thanks for reading! |
04-26-2021, 10:41 PM | #2 |
Forever Derbyless
Join Date: Aug 2020
Age: 33
Posts: 240
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
I agree with this idea. Being able to differentiate skill on an annual basis would provide more clarity on official tournament placements and would interestingly track what an individual's skill rating per year would be. It would also indicate how much a user improved over time, which is nice to have. We can also have more updated leaderboards containing rankings based on recent skill in a given year too.
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04-26-2021, 11:07 PM | #3 |
owo
Head of Events Team
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 374
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
I very much agree that a ranking which takes recency into account would be a very healthy fit for a game like FFR- seasons in particular may or may not be the best way to achieve this, but i think its a pretty good idea. I think an additional touch could be a somewhat-regularly changing pool of charts available to be played for this "seasonal" ranking. This would serve to discourage just grinding the same charts you would otherwise grind and help newer charts get more exposure.
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04-27-2021, 12:56 AM | #4 |
lol happy
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DESTINY
Age: 33
Posts: 12,193
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
Something to this effect has been suggested occasionally ever since large numbers of files started going in the game each year, i.e. since 2007
The answer is always something like, "yeah that sounds cool and sorta makes sense but also sounds like a lot of work that nobody is ever going to do"
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Last edited by hi19hi19; 04-27-2021 at 12:56 AM.. |
04-27-2021, 04:49 AM | #5 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2021
Age: 29
Posts: 7
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
Honestly its a nice idea, it benefits not only returning players but the more active ones especially.
It could be a great way for the public to gauge which files are most popular and to see how the active userbase are faring on said files. I like to compare the present to the present personally, if i wanna see what I and others did the better half of a decade ago I'd just look at the current leaderboards. Which is a great thing and all, but it might feel more engaging and competitive for players to have a seasonal leaderboard where only scores within a set time frame are accounted for, I think. I like the idea and with the right implementation it could turn out to be an easily welcomed change. Last edited by ZeroArtisan; 04-27-2021 at 05:07 AM.. |
04-27-2021, 08:23 AM | #6 | |||
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Community Manager
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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It's probably not as big of an issue with our current active userbase on newer files, but on a lot of older files you can really see how the same alts can throw your rank off. This of course has a greater impact the lower your ranking. You feel more of that present competition when you're more assured that your rank is being compared to unique accounts. I don't want to discourage people from using alts to play FFR since it's a viable way of playing in different ways, but I also don't want that to reflect on this system. Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. |
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04-27-2021, 01:13 PM | #7 |
[Nobody liked that.]
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,359
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
I’m gonna come out and say it
This idea is cool, but even if it was implemented, it would be an absolute failure along the lines of the tier point system, which continues to take up needless space. |
04-27-2021, 01:52 PM | #8 | |
owo
Head of Events Team
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 374
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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You seem to be shooting the idea down without even giving a good reason why you don't think it'll work. |
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04-27-2021, 01:53 PM | #9 | |
!🤖💥👾!
Community Manager
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 160
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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I think this additional top 100 is a step in a better direction when you compare those two systems based on the discussion so far. Considering its use of pre-existing design I'd think it better serve the resources it'd take up, but that's obviously a topic a dev would be more suited to comment on. If there's enough interest, I believe it's worth trying for a year to see the results if nothing else. |
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04-27-2021, 03:56 PM | #10 |
Forever Derbyless
Join Date: Aug 2020
Age: 33
Posts: 240
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
At least to me, that's more of a failure in execution vs. failure in the idea itself. Can you clarify why the idea would be considered a "failure"?
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04-28-2021, 01:51 PM | #11 | |||
[Nobody liked that.]
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,359
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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You finding them as a minigame is textbook irrelevant, but if that's what makes them fun for you, hey at least you personally found a use for them. I don't share that thinking. I'd have obliterated them from existence on the site literal years ago. Quote:
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I think my "why it would fail" is earlier here, but to short hand: it will be rendered obsolete by following the same path a current system we have has taken. |
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04-28-2021, 06:46 PM | #12 | |
Forever Derbyless
Join Date: Aug 2020
Age: 33
Posts: 240
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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You've made it clear that you liked the idea though, so I understand your thoughts about it now.
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05-1-2021, 10:13 PM | #13 |
Administrator
User Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 29
Posts: 3,902
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
I personally love the idea of a seasons system for FFR, and we already have most of the infrastructure in place to execute the base concept of "season starts, season ends, season leaderboard resets".
Using the established skill rating system makes sense, and benefits both returning players who feel discouraged playing against their top scores from forever ago, and new players who can fit right in to the current season. *Shuffles notes from 2016* A major reason why seasons never really took off the last time this was suggested (other than lack of developer resources), was because we wanted to introduce some sort of crazy season-exclusive engine mechanics, theme, and incentives, like Path of Exile does with their league system. I still feel there needs to be something a bit more than just a leaderboard if we want seasons to be as engaging as possible. But if the community cares more about stat tracking and getting this thing rolling, we could keep the first season simple, and just offer profile badges for the division you finished the season in. I can't think of any real drawbacks. Since there will be no "end-of-season tournament", where everyone is placed based on their seasonal skill rating, there aren't really any incentives for underperforming. Starting a new season every 3-4 months feels like a good sweet spot that gives more drop-in opportunities than once per year. |
05-2-2021, 08:47 AM | #14 | ||||
!🤖💥👾!
Community Manager
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 160
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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I really appreciate the input from the dev side. It sounds like this could work out pretty smoothly in the end. The only thing I can think of asking about is your thoughts (anyone's thoughts, really) on the formula for deciding a user's level within a season. I had said a simple average before, but Wilson had mentioned using a weighted average and that sounds more appealing to me. Quote:
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05-3-2021, 09:55 PM | #15 |
The Doctor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 35
Posts: 6,145
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
I always liked the idea of seasons. I imagined a list of songs covering the range of difficulties and your highest AAA equivalency, or sum of best 5, or something like that would be the leaderboard metric. Profile badges and what not per season etc.
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05-4-2021, 10:36 AM | #16 |
Zageron E. Tazaterra
RRR Developer & DevOps Support
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: BC
Age: 32
Posts: 6,587
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
ok someone take ownership over the design and requirements and tell dev team what to do and by when
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05-6-2021, 09:53 PM | #17 | |
Signature Extraordinare~~
Song Submission & Events Manager
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Re: FFR Seasons [Suggestion]
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