The Etterna Project

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by shakesoda

edit/full disclosure: posts like this hurt a lot, tbh. I apologize for wrongdoings on my part and would prefer if things didn't stay this way.

This has probably been a painful experience for you, although hopefully you have learned some important lessons about leadership and communication. Actions of every developer on the team represent the team as a whole, and it's important to tackle accountability issues early on.

[Celirra]

*on a happier note*

I hope DP isn't fully removed, I (and I think others maybe probably) like the ability to see both Wife and DP, even if Wife is the "official" scoring.

[lurker]

too bad

[PortalLife]

nuking DP fully basically means youre saying that every score made on 3.9 is invalid which is iffy to me.

while id like to see wife be the primary scoring system imo DP shouldn't get erased altogether but my opinion has little value cause im bad

[leonid]

Nah numbers are still there so you can calculate the etterna score out of them if you want to bother doing it

[Ristyy]

I personally enjoy chord cohesion and DP scoring, a lot of players do not like that as it appears and I had no idea that was a generally bigger topic than I had initially thought it would be. It's probably fair to say that if you're not totally on board with what Mina is working on, you just won't 100% use the most current version and use something else, maybe an older version of the project or a vanilla stepmania version. Removal of chord cohesion and DP scoring I think is significant enough a change that it's straying away from what stepmania is, basically becoming its own game.

I'm fairly undecided, other than FFR i've not played a rhythm game without chord cohesion. It'll most likely be fine, I believe in Mina he's done so much good for this project I'm excited to see what it will look like ultimately in the end. Thank you Mina!

[Celirra]

^ Sums up my stance; majority of top players seem to be in favour of eliminating chord cohesion though, and that's what's relevant for development favour really.

[lurker]

i mean ultimately both dp and scores with chord cohesion are far too easily manipulated by the choices the creator of a file makes without changing the inputs required to play it perfectly
in addition, none of the language in the original posts contains any obligation to keep the build comparable to "vanilla stepmania"

[TheNoSoMan]

With what Mina claims Kyz to have done for Stepmania and what he has done for his fork compared to the vanilla build and Shakesoda's response and ragequit, this is absolutely depressing concerning the state of the community. I'm even more downtrodden by the fact that chord cohesion and the old scoring system isn't even going to be an option for the Etterna Project since vanilla has allegedly shit the bed.

[YoshL]

I don't think they've said they're getting rid of DP, and i'm pretty sure they're making CC toggleable. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

for the record:
cc is being removed and it will not be optional
dp is being removed and it will not be optional unless you theme it back in [insult removed for brevity]

..

[lurker]

nothing is stopping you from using an older version of etterna (i mean look at how long the majority of the community stuck to 3.95 when 4.0 and early sm5 builds were rolling out lol)
just as it was in the past, though, your choice to stick to an older version means that you miss out on newer developments
and also personally i'm pretty sure this attitude that core mechanics should not be changed if people are used to them is a significant part of why ffr died

[TheNoSoMan]

Originally Posted by lurker

nothing is stopping you from using an older version of etterna (i mean look at how long the majority of the community stuck to 3.95 when 4.0 and early sm5 builds were rolling out lol)
just as it was in the past, though, your choice to stick to an older version means that you miss out on newer developments
and also personally i'm pretty sure this attitude that core mechanics should not be changed if people are used to them is a significant part of why ffr died

Even if I'm going to use an older version of Etterna just for the old features, it's not gonna change the fact that I will inevitably encounter significant bugs that won't be fixed unless I give up those features in the process of updating. Just because you've had to deal with the buggy as hell 3.95 all this time is not an excuse for having others go through the same ordeal with Etterna.

Also, ffr is dead due to people not wanting change?

[MinaciousGrace]

remember when people argued that av-miss shouldn't be fixed

[icontrolyourworld]

Ffr isn't dead, if you want to see dead check keybeat, ffr still gets daily posts and is arguably active mainly through discord. I haven't heard from anyone ever that they quit the game/site because of change or lacktherof regarding the games mechanics.

[lurker]

you're making it sound like i'm mainly talking about the site and honestly i'm not sure how you got that impression
also i'm pretty goddamn sure that people legit quit the site because r^3 got supported over legacy

as for thenosoman, even though i personally switched to sm5 very early, the fact of the matter is that nobody here will care about what you think you're entitled to because everyone who started playing before a specific time spent multiple years playing a version of the game with zero active development well before sm5 (and sm-ssc before that) was even a thing

[TheNoSoMan]

I just want to see the old features added in as options, but that's never gonna happen. I really thought Mina could make another thing like sm-ssc happen but his interests (and the community's) are clearly different from mine.

There are two more things I want to see and the first one is for a list of things that make Etterna different from vanilla besides wife and no chord cohesion. Mina claims to have optimized the engine so it runs much faster now so I want to know what other things he did. The second one is for the GitHub page to be changed to be more distinct from the vanilla one. Readme.md does not mention the wife or the lack of chord cohesion.

[MinaciousGrace]

you know not only is there extensive documentation in the release change logs on the github on exactly those subjects but those subjects have also been extensively discussed in this thread

i can do a lot of things but i can't read for you

as for 'old features' like dp you can literally just copy and paste the old scwh scripts in to add it back in if you really cared to, like i've already said

if people are literally going to kill themselves if they can't have an option to turn on chord cohesion again then i suppose i can still make it optional however any scores achieved with chord cohesion enabled will be

a) disconnected from the rating system and given a rating of 0 and any scores will produce ssr's of 0
b) given the above with necessarily be completely disconnected from the profile system
c) given the above will necessarily be completely disconnected from any leaderboard or rankings site
and unless the replay system is fundamentally reworked,
d) no replay data will be saved which means no offset plots and no rescoring

so basically you'd be voluntarily opting into scores incomparable with anyone else's that voids the majority of kb oriented features in the name of "having more options"

which, you might as well be playing sm5 at that point

as for presentation of documentation gonna be honest i dont really give a fuck and i dont really care about anyone that does either and i've never tried to hide that stance

[blindreper1179]

Minaciousstraightforwardanswersnobullshit

[Wayward Vagabond]

Add break and wave in again. Or at least let me know what I'm doing wrong because I've added the options into fallback/regular theme and in the language section but the options aren't showing up and I'm not sure what I'm missing