TWG CXLIII: SK Loses Again Game Thread

[roundbox]

I'm taking a break after I drop this post, holy shit

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Zenith

There's really nothing I can do to prevent you guys from lynching me because wolves decided to incriminate me for god who knows what reason.

Oh look, YoshL was 100% wrong about DBP.

Oh look, I was 100% wrong about YMIA.

This is the only time Zenith self-votes. It's the third post of Day 1.
Explain to me again how this one vote when he has no other votes and thus is in no real danger of being lynched, is making him read human in yous guys eyes

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

also now that you mention it, the last time zenith was scum in a game with me (slopefiring) he self-presed hard under the premise that he was a survivor

I also have previous game experience where Zenith self-voted as a wolf, so again back to my earlier point about why it's leading everyone to human read him.

Originally Posted by rzr

this literally nulifies my Zenith read since I figured 1--% Zenith had to be a wolf if he went against yosh. Yosh as town concerns me, why did he act so aloof at the last part of the
day phase?

I think more can be dissolved from the Zenith/yosh interactions and I will pull this shit up

What happened with this train of thought rzr?


In regards to the Xel vote train, there's like 65 pages of shit to sift through in just D1.
Dap voted him first and then Round voted him pretty early on in the phase, but I have no desire to read the remaining 60 or so pages.

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Who are the most suspicious people on the Xel vote, then? A post like this implies that there is wolf activity on the Xel vote. How many wolves do you think are there? One? Two?

Well let's see what we can ascertain from the final votecount.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

Votecount:
Xel (6)- round, DBP, choof, Charu, plop, Red
V (2)- Rex, AA
Rex (2)- V, rzr

choof claimed cop so obviously nobody is pushing here today.
Charu died and was the town doc.
Plop was Inno.

So it's essentially down to you, dap and myself as possible wolves on the Xel wagon, so by this logic I think it's safer to assume that only one wolf was in this group. You two voted Xel early on the phase and then 2 confirmed humans and a potential claim jumped on in the middle and I accidentally hammered, so my mind wants to think that one of you have a good potential to be the wolf on this wagon. Mainly because as I said in my other post, wolves tend to vote earlier or in the midst of a wagon forming so as to avoid any suspicion, no wolf in their right mind would hammer.

So with that if there's one wolf on Xel then the next question is where is the wolf between Rex, AA and rzr? This is where it really becomes a crapshoot based off of the votes: rzr and V vote Rex, whereas Rex and AA vote V.
Is it a case of partners voting together (V and rzr) or partners distancing (AA and/or Rex)

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by roundbox

I'm taking a break after I drop this post, holy shit

mega post hype

[roundbox]

I'm going to write all of these posts examining my lynch pool candidates, and then some. Almost every action and post is going to be evaluated for alignment purposes.

On rzr:

rzr started off this game wanting to change his meta. Well, at least his D0 meta. He said he wants to avoid throwing out votes to "spark something" which he said he would do regardless of alignment. One thing I noticed in this post (and completely forgot about) was the fact that he said he planned on voting for me. Many of his early posts name drop me, and I wonder if this is a breadcrumbing tactic.

Originally Posted by rzr

I wanna throw a vote now to spark something and if I were to, it'd be on roundbox. But I told the guys in the livetwg I will forever go out of my way to avoid voting if I can, regardless of my role.

Originally Posted by rzr

If I recall, the only time I did vote was to save my skin by voting bunny last game. I did state if I were to it'd be geared towards roundbox. And will elaborate if it seems my 2 cents is worth it

Originally Posted by rzr

This I will agree with, and that's why I was close to tossing a vote on roundbox to see his reaction.

Originally Posted by rzr

And yet, plop, who here has disappeared? Roundbox.
Simply put, I find his tone very strong at game start. It bothers me since he usually seems to watch more at first. And I would tend to say just based on the dicking around between him and yosh, that there is some alignment there between them. So, if I have to bold his name and color it red to get his attention, than it seems I'm not the one not doing my job lol

Originally Posted by rzr

I understand, is there any comment on roundbox?

Originally Posted by rzr

I see it, thus far, as either Zenith is a wolf and Yosh is super town, putting roundbox as null, or Zenith is human and roundbox/yosh are scummy

These are within his first 12 posts in the thread. I'm pretty sure there are more posts mentioning me, but tunneling and focusing this hard on me from the get-go is awfully suspicious, especially this last quote where both options for me are not town-sided. Scum points

I said this earlier (I think), but self-admitted alignment changes are hard to pin for alignment. It draws suspicion no matter which way you look at it, but it goes so far into WIFOM territory that I'm just gonna call this a neutral move.

Originally Posted by rzr

Personally, I do not like to vote because of the wolf rush, and because it screws with the way I analyze player interactions. Again, this was all stated in the livechat, just getting you guys hip

This seems like an odd concern to have, especially on d0 when there is no danger of the wolf rush. However, I see this as towny from rzr since this feels like an older way of thinking about the game. Wolves aren't this dumb. (well, for the most part)

we have a few more joke posts and posts saying that he will not be in the thread for a bit. okay.

His re-entrance was this post, which I know I dissected in another post. He had contradicting thoughts about DaBackpack (calling him town, then completely full of shit, but then eventually town??). He had a weird comment about YoshL being the SK, but now we see how that turned out. I am curious to see what he thinks now about the pairing of me/YoshL now that we know YoshL's just a VT. This post was actually decent (read; town-ish) compared to his later posts of this size.

Originally Posted by rzr

Still running around and I get the buzz for a quote, didn't even read it all yet just wanna say look who's being defensive zenith.

I'm noticing a bit of a trend here for what pings people on rzr's scum radar. Non-response to prods, and playing defensively. He mentioned in that long post about the effort I put into researching DaBackpack as being townie, so something tells me that activity plays a huge part in his town reads. I will think about this moving forward.

rzr then posts his reads list without substantive reasoning for his order, and we just have to piece together the tie between his posts and this one. I don't like this, personally.
It's also at this point in the game that rzr starts digging into Zenith, kind of like he did to me at the beginning of the game.
He calls him a professional tunneler: "Fact, Zenith is a professional tunnler. Though ymia hasn't given him much to work with.
On that note, post 655 is a good response. I read it a few times trying to pick something out of it. I don't think it sounds good to say you want ymia lynched, p ersonally I don't ever like lynching anyone unless they're confirmed, I always feel uneasy till the end. But you had a good defense of your points against ymia, which I would like to hear his defense of. Also still need to iso him."

"except for a few defensive posts/skim on ymia" hey it looks like this scum/townread theory is checking out (this is a point on Zenith)

In the same post: "I believe I mentioned earlier how Zenith is a professional tunnler. And I see a lack of that here, even with him and yosh at the start."
So which one is it? What alignment did that put him at? Was this ever followed up? Lots of the points he brings up in this tower post don't seem like they are followed up at all by rzr unless people respond to his questions. There doesn't seem to be that urgency of pursuing people who don't answer questions, probably because he threw out too many to keep track of since it looks like he's being active/prodding when all it could take is a bunch of questions. I don't like this.

rzr's early thoughts on red blaster: "1. You're a pr that's why you've been so defensive. Maybe I'm the only one that picked up on it, maybe I'm just over reading it. but I don't think you're green, blue could be a stretch.
2. You are town as fuck, you feel a little more comfy this game and came back at some people with some quick retorts because it fit in the conversation at the time.
That said, all that bothers me is your content. You also seem to handpick what points you want to reply to and what you don't. This does align with the human meta I have for you though >>"
I don't think identifying anyone as a PR this early or bringing attention to it is a good thing at all. rzr definitely flipped his views on Red Blaster, but it will be some time before I get to the point where he reverses this.

Originally Posted by rzr

I can feel comfy with this for now. In fact, I'll even vote xel for now because I do feel strongest here. Having watched him from a wolf POV he seems almost the opposite of how I perceived him as town. Hope this doesn't make you dislike me anymore, buddy.

Originally Posted by rzr

This is fair for now, I hope to see something worth convincing at least myself that Zenith is worth my vote. Hopefully we can get that by end of day.

Nice contradiction here. He places a vote on Xel yet foreshadows his impending tunneling on Zenith. I know you mentioned that I "had my mind made up" on your alignment, and I would definitely say this second post here puts you into the same category. You still seem to be stuck to the alignment of Zenith's slot (Rex) as your vote yesterday was on Rex.

Originally Posted by rzr

also, had a thought about what I was saying on yosh. It's very possible he's not posting as much as before simply because he doesn't have a good lean right now, which I think a lot of us may feel that way

Looks like my theory on town/scumreading from rzr continues!!

Originally Posted by rzr

Please reread what I've said about Zenith and ymia, I don't think Zenith would tunnel on him at all d0, I was his partner and we tried hard to avoid each other especially at first. Which is also why I wouldn't put him on a group with you at this point.

Quoting this because it's relevant to what's happening now. rzr claimed that me not interacting/avoiding Rex makes us a scum pair. I have interacted with Rex. In fact, not many people have interacted with him because he hasn't posted much. His biggest interaction is with V. He does bring me up a few time, and he also brings up you, rzr, in one of his posts. I would hardly call our relationship one of avoidance simply because he has too few posts to establish a pattern/observation here.

rzr then has his first major back-and-forth with Red Blaster which was primed by Red Blaster. His response here tells me that rzr and Red Blaster probably aren't the same alignment. I get this vibe from the fact Red Blaster's points have already been answered, and that he's trying to force a scumread on rzr for non-compliance. rzr's tone in response seems to be that of "this shit again??" which rings more of an annoyance rather than two scum buddies making distance.

Originally Posted by rzr

thoughts on a roundbox/yoshL team?

huehuehue

Originally Posted by rzr

both of whom have been viewing this thread for quite some time

hey look, the theory still holds!! (non-activity)

Originally Posted by rzr

also wouldn't mind your feedback on a roundbox/yosh scenario, I'm not pushing that though

Yeah I'm not buying this bolded part given the context of these last few posts. He's still breadcrumbing me. Still as suspicious as it was before.

The next suspicious thing on the table is his abandoning of his scum read on xel after making this post digging at his points and saying they don't have much substance or contribution.

Originally Posted by rzr

All in all, I feel a lot more comfortable taking my vote off Xel for now, maybe gearing towards ymia or RB again, but I'm still digging. One hell of a d0 lmao.

This is the post he makes immediately afterwards, which really doesn't match up in my book.

I'm skipping a ton of posts namely because I'm getting bored digging through 388 of them. Holy shit

Originally Posted by rzr

Hey and if I do die it's cuz I pinged the fuckin wolf team, xel/RB/ymia.

This concern seems townie but I don't think wolves would take this bait. It sure would look like a decent frame job, but even then, I'm pretty sure you would be the only one to pursue that line of thinking if it were to happen (but you'd be dead).

The other thing that stood out to me at this EOD is the whole Zenith/ymia "more information" thing which earned my vote at EOD.
One last thing is the fact that he's spent so much time dealing with (and scumreading) Red Blaster that it's surprising he didn't pursue him for the lynch on D0 or D1. He's still following the tunnels/votes he set up in D0 (ymia > Zenith > probably me) which are all more than likely mislynches. I wonder if him pushing off a Red Blaster lynch might actually tie these two together as partners??

Originally Posted by rzr

WOLVES: Red Blaster, XelNya, possibly DBP/V
HUMAN: me, plop, ymia, yosh, I think Zenith is pretty humany and I think AA is pretty humany
TOO NULL TO TELL: charu, choof, v, roundbox

Like, seriously. He lists Red Blaster and Xelnya as his top two wolf reads, but ends up with his lynch that day on Rex (Zenith). What gives?

Originally Posted by rzr

Not sure what to take from that.
Maybe xel could offer more insight if lynched than red blaster would on xel

No, seriously, what gives? We know now that Xel is a human, but does this make Red Blaster a mislynch or a bus? If rzr's a wolf and it's a mislynch, I honestly have no idea who his partner would be and would have to do some digging to see if AA or Rex/Zenith fit the bill more. If rzr's a wolf and it's a bus?? Fuck dude this is legitimately tying my brain in knots.

Originally Posted by rzr

A lot of people say this is reds meta that's why even though we butted heads I'm reluctant to push my case further right now. With the possibility of a tainted wagon, I'm trying to get more from others interacting with red in favor of a lynch that could clear him/100% incriminAte him depending I how it goes

I think I found the gold mine here that could make or break a rzr/red blaster partnership. Like... holy shit. I almost feel like the top 90% of my post is useless. Look at this bolded statement. Even though Red Blaster is his top wolf read and almost essentially has been the entire game, he is not pushing a lynch on him. He is instead favoring another lynch that could "clear him or incriminate him". This to me sounds like a wolf trying desperately hard to reach parity by saying "oh, these are my partners, but I think I'll wait until I pick off his interactions before finally setting a vote on them". Take, for example, his next two targets he looks at for inactivity: V and choof. We know now that V was a wolf, so let's look at how rzr interacts when them during this day phase.

Originally Posted by rzr

In regards to today's lynch, I think we've gotten everything we're gonna from Xel/RB, I just don't sdee them offering much more up. Who could be a better target for pressure? I want to say V or choof still, but I don't think they're going to give much either way

Maybe/hopefully choof will

Here's that post saying that he could look at them as a good target for pressure.

Choof enters the thread and posts this:

Originally Posted by choof

lmao

And rzr's follow-up? Nothing. Nada. This post is attacking rzr's pairings list, but rzr has no follow-up.

V enters the thread and posts his reasoning for inactivity, and rzr immediately deflects a voting possibility on V.

Originally Posted by rzr

I take this in 2 different ways:
It's either a cheesy attempt at pushing off his lynch until he knows he can invest more time into proving his humanity, and only posts this because he knows he was called for these exact reasons
or 2. he's just busy, and I get that, plus remember when I said he had posted outside of TWG, well that was about his move to Cali lol. So that's fair.

I don't think a V lynch is worth much today, I'd rather see Red Blaster's thoughts on V and what he's said here.

Also, why the fuck did Zenith/rex seem to get a pass? I had a bunch of shit to say to Zenith that I can't now, but I don't like Rex coming in and going out so nonchaulantly

Instead he pushes it back to... Red Blaster. Huh. And in an even CRAZIER note, he ends this post defending V by redirecting his suspicions back to the Zenith/Rex slot. Nothing on choof, just straight back to this Zenith/Rex slot which holds his vote at the end of the day. In fact, his vote on Rex was primed by V himself. I called it out in this post here. Is this it? Is the team V/Red/rzr??

Originally Posted by rzr

yeah I forgot about rex
that might be a good place to start too, why did he get a pass yesterday?
or did he just go mia too

~~wew lad~~

Originally Posted by rzr

idk
I built a big case on Red d0, not much has changed that, but I guess I'm more scared of the devil we don't know than the devil we do in this instance

Yeah, you sure did. You still haven't committed to it with your lynch vote though.

This was a very life changing journey. Next up is Red Blaster but that won't be for a bit. Something tells me I'm gonna drop the big SCUMREAD on him as well.

[roundbox]

considering it's now two hours later, I think I'm gonna ignore that top line considering I don't want to spend another few hours digging into Red Blaster. I will do this later today, but more than likely tomorrow.

[rzr]

Roundbox has been on me since the start I'll read that and humor you after the game but I stick to my vote and I wish any somebody would acknowldledge that too

[rzr]

Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf Roundbox is a wolf

[Red Blaster]

To re-examine the entire thread does seem very wolfy, but it's certainly not out of character for someone like Roundbox. Why do you think he's scummy now after townreading him essentially the entire game up until now?

[Contrapasso]

rex should never be thought of as a wolf
imo he is lock clear because of his slot

roundbox has been pretty towny all game
AA and Red Blaster have been juggled back and forth
I don't know what to think about rzr but he's clear today, if we're going to lynch him, it'll be tomorrow
or since dbp is staying alive, he gets a shot

we should also take into consideration guiding dbp's shot tonight

dbp, who will you kill tonight

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by Contrapasso

rex should never be thought of as a wolf
imo he is lock clear because of his slot

roundbox has been pretty towny all game
AA and Red Blaster have been juggled back and forth
I don't know what to think about rzr but he's clear today, if we're going to lynch him, it'll be tomorrow
or since dbp is staying alive, he gets a shot

we should also take into consideration guiding dbp's shot tonight

dbp, who will you kill tonight

You assume hes the sk


Which he's not.

[AragakiAyase]

@RB: Zenith self-voted in more than just that place, like here:

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

obligatory Zenith until I get back

Yes, this is an obvious shit-vote. but what people are saying makes them read him as human was this vote:

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

zenith

i think that is hammer yes

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

choof claimed cop so obviously nobody is pushing here today.

wait... so you believe choof's claim but not dbp's? This differs from what you were saying earlier

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

@RB: Zenith self-voted in more than just that place, like here:



Yes, this is an obvious shit-vote. but what people are saying makes them read him as human was this vote:

There's a post after that where it's discussed that he knew it clearly wasn't insta though.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

You assume hes the sk


Which he's not.

l
m
f
a
o

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

wait... so you believe choof's claim but not dbp's? This differs from what you were saying earlier

That was just general speculation.
What I'm saying here is no sane player is going to advocate a lynch against a cop claim.
choof said he got an "anti-town" result that doesn't automatically mean he's right on dbp being sk.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Contrapasso

rex should never be thought of as a wolf
imo he is lock clear because of his slot

roundbox has been pretty towny all game
AA and Red Blaster have been juggled back and forth
I don't know what to think about rzr but he's clear today, if we're going to lynch him, it'll be tomorrow
or since dbp is staying alive, he gets a shot

we should also take into consideration guiding dbp's shot tonight

dbp, who will you kill tonight

that depends on the flip

I'm thinking of not shooting on a mislynch

If RB flips wolf, then I'll probably shoot rzr

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

That was just general speculation.
What I'm saying here is no sane player is going to advocate a lynch against a cop claim.
choof said he got an "anti-town" result that doesn't automatically mean he's right on dbp being sk.

this is way different than saying "he's not an SK"

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

this is way different than saying "he's not an SK"

Because I've already said you're not an sk.

Because I am and I killed Pop last night lmao

[DaBackpack]

Red Blaster AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAAHA