jTWG LXXVI: Duo Deception | Game Thread!!!

[ShadowDueler97]

With the way I feel storn has been kinda biased towards T-Force, if storn dies today and he's wolf my suspicions of T-Force being wolf is gonna go way up.

[storn42]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

Storn was 2nd last to vote Gradiant for lynch. That makes me think if it's shad+storn, but they wouldn't have wolf talk by then... however, storn seems 2nd likely.

my vote on grad wasn't to push the lynch. t-force said he wanted to vote for me which wouldn't put it at KiTB,. i voted so i could stay alive and help kill the woofs

[helphelp11]

If it's self defense, I can believe that.
Shadow, who do you suspect most?

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

Storn was 2nd last to vote Gradiant for lynch. That makes me think if it's shad+storn, but they wouldn't have wolf talk by then... however, storn seems 2nd likely.

assume shadow is town; who are the wolves then?

[ShadowDueler97]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

If it's self defense, I can believe that.
Shadow, who do you suspect most?

Storn, with a second wolf read on T-Force.

[helphelp11]

Storn and... YoshL? I'm not sure to put up in that 2nd spot, honestly. It has to be someone from the Gradiant vote, though. However, I recall that psycho would've switched off of Gradiant.

[helphelp11]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Uh, storn was one of the people I was already considering. I would have probably switched.

Yeah, this was the post.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

Storn and... YoshL? I'm not sure to put up in that 2nd spot, honestly. It has to be someone from the Gradiant vote, though. However, I recall that psycho would've switched off of Gradiant.

why do both wolves have to be on the Gradiant wagon?

[helphelp11]

That's following T-Force's logic:

Originally Posted by T-Force

Last reads list from AA, who says the wolves are obvious.

Helphelp, storn, shadow.

I don't think help's a wolf though.

Let's use the final votecount:

gradiant (5) - psychoangel, yoshl, greg, storn, shad
storn (1) - ayase
Unvote: gradiant
No Vote: help, t-force

I can all but guarantee that the two wolves are on the Gradiant train.
There is literally no reason for help or I to not vote as wolves, so help's ruled out.
Gradiant was an unvote and he ended up VT.
Aragaki had their vote on storn and they ended up VT.

storn, you're up first on the chopping block.

T-Force seems like he's just discussing.

[thesunfan]

ok, why are you following T-Force's logic then?
is it because you trust him or agree with his logic or both?

[helphelp11]

Both. T-Force seems town lean to me due to his discussing, so I can trust him on his logic.

[thesunfan]

the latter isn't necessarily justified by the former, and that includes this case.
He's making the mistake of assuming that wolves will always vote as a group and this just isn't true. So while your townread may be correct you should not trust his logic!
He also \almost\ makes the mistake of assuming that split wagons are always wolf/town but doesn't quite do it.

[thesunfan]

just because you are townreading someone does not mean that they are right similar to how town should not instantly vote for the top suspicion of the previous phases mislynch.

[helphelp11]

Well, if I'm right on my town read on T-Force, does that mean the people who voted Gradiant all have an equal chance of being wolf?
(Greg is sunfan, right?)

[YoshL]

I'm currently torn on storn (lol)

at least, going off of previous games i've played and read from him, he's in general about this awkward and horrid with his posts, and i remember lynching him in a different game because of the same stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm more interested in shadowdueler's hammer on Gradiant because of his reasoning - especialyl this one thing

The reason I felt it necessary to get Gradiant out of the way whether he was town or wolf was because if he didn't die, he would remain a lingering problem with people wondering if he's wolf or not. He would be moving attention away from figuring out who the other wolf/wolves is and keep the attention onto him. Now that he's gone, the fact he was town and died isn't so bad. Now it'll be that much easier to find the wolves with one less person gone.

to be incredibly frank, i don't think he was thinking this at all when he was hammering. Especially not the way he posted his hammer.

Also, this line of thinking is very weird, in that fiction had to wrecking ball slam it into my face one game before i stopped worrying too much about killing vts early on. Also, being the tiniest bit nitpicky, his wording is very peculiar (e.g. get Gradiant out of the way)

[thesunfan]

on paper, yes.
What you need to figure out is who actually thought they were lynched a wolf and who was pretending to do so. Look back at the end of the previous day, and look at the posts where the players voted for Jake. Look at their reasons and come back and say who you think it a wolf, if anyone, and who you think is town.

and yes I am Greg

[helphelp11]

Wait, so even if I'm correct on my read, I shouldn't trust his logic?
But, assuming that T-Force is town, that leaves the people voting for Gradiant and me...

[thesunfan]

I think that would be typical Yoshl but Shadow is from ToS and one of the few things ToS does that carries over to forum TWG is that when a vanilla town dies its not really a bad thing.

That being said I agree with the part about him not thinking about that when he hammered Jake.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

Wait, so even if I'm correct on my read, I shouldn't trust his logic?
But, assuming that T-Force is town, that leaves the people voting for Gradiant and me...

Let's assume T-Force is town in this example.
He thinks you are a wolf.
Is he right? Obviously from your Point of View you would say no.

Its similar to that.

Lets say that he thinks storn is a wolf. We all agree and we lynch storn. Storn flips town.

Does that make sense? I feel like I didn't explain that all too well; it seems kind of basic so I have a hard time explaining it.

What I think I'm ultimately trying to say is, only trust someone else's logic/reads/whatever if you think they have good reasons for having said logic/reads/whatever.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by helphelp11

Wait, so even if I'm correct on my read, I shouldn't trust his logic?
But, assuming that T-Force is town, that leaves the people voting for Gradiant and me...

Yes, I suggest you look back at all 4(?) people alive that voted for Gradiant at the end of the day and see if you opinion on the wolfteam changes.