TWG XCV: Nobody messes with the frog, see

[Crazyjayde]

Originally Posted by Fojar

and your name is jayde?

Lol, didn't realize this would come as an issue, such a uncommon username for a guy. Real name is Vincent. Nickname came from a crazy girl named Jayde back in early puberty with whom I've played Stick Arena together. Kind of a tribute to 'Crazy Jay' from Stickpage.com.

Alright, since I've got so much on my mind right now, I'll be preparing a (hopefully) concise post about how I feel about everyone. I just want to be sure how you guys feel about the length of my posts and if you'd like the short version or not.

Also, to respond to TPS views:

Originally Posted by Tps222

This reads as a bunch of bullshit to me. I understand the strategy you're describing, I've attempted to use it in the past, but I really don't think it works in the end. Admitting that you're playing dumb is pointless and negates anything that you would be trying to do, other then appearing as a rationalized attempt to defend yourself (which I realize is in your own self-interest, but shouldn't be the driving force behind your play).

God, I should reread myself before posting. GF was coming back from shower and I had to submit reply really quickly, but that's not relevant anyway to my dumbness. I forgot to state that I am actually addressing my early vote on V and the events that followed until my vote on cedo. I only wanted to reiterate what I said earlier in better words, since I felt it was a pretty dumb plan after all and it got me unnecessary suspicions. I'm referring to this post:

That aside, I only want to state that I like to create early disturbances when in start of the game since it really has no significant repercussion (given that I'm also a new player). I feel like this is gonna fall flat in a C9++ format though.

It was really just a introductory strategy I had already used successfully for IRL TWG but didn't achieve much in this case. It will never be the main line of thought for my posts. Felt like it made so much fuss for nothing.

[Crazyjayde]

By the way, before going into anything. Regarding Vic' and YMIA discussion earlier, I feel redundancy is key to establishing solid opinions about people, if I wouldn't develop over people thoughts or my own, I would be pretty much out of ideas and we wouldn't progress further. What makes it valid as a way of incriminating someone is the way he is using it to his advantage. The appropriation of others' thoughts should be implied in somebody's rhetoric, in any other way, it can lead to suspicion. (Thinking of how Jrodd's been agreeing with everyone from the beginning of the game, I'll get on that more fully. YMIA or manti even)

[Crazyjayde]

The more I look into your play style Jrodd the more I become confused about what his out of the norm for you. I know the "^ this" is how you work, and you seem really pro-town, but I couldn't get my head around why you would agree so much in start of game while keeping your distances and throwing votes on already highlighted people. I need answers Statham.

inb4 Fojar makes me into a tranvestite in the game story

[Vendetta21]

I dont think anyone else caught that you are French. I had thought some of your ways of phrasing things odd. Are the two connected?

Also calling yourself dumb is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sometimes in the periphery of my eye I see a shadow of myself that wants to tell me I'm stupid or I am wrong or someone is tricking me. I try not to look at it or listen to it when I'm playing the werewolf game unless I absolutely must. That shadow gets me killed so fucking often.

What I'm saying is believe in your instinct. The worst you can do is misfire which happens like 75% of the time on D1 anyways. I have been giving a small amount of deference because I assumed a language barrier but continuing to call yourself stupid after someone has called it into question... I cannot allow excuses that cloud my judgment to continue to exist forever and will eventually lynch you for them.

[Vendetta21]

Also before I go to bed I want to say that I am 80% confident cedolad is a wolf and I truly believe he should be lynched today as he has displayed far and beyond the largest number of wolf tells.

At this point the two people's perspectives I am most interested in are darkmanticorex2 and James May. I think we should be moving into a more serious lynch phase tomorrow and I want their opinions.

@fojar can you prod James May?

[Crazyjayde]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

I dont think anyone else caught that you are French. I had thought some of your ways of phrasing things odd. Are the two connected?

French is my maternal tongue and is also the main language I speak orally. I am an advanced english speaker but when I do speak english, my mind needs to transfer data according to my natural tongue. I believe both are connected but shouldn't come as a major issue.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

...but continuing to call yourself stupid after someone has called it into question... I cannot allow excuses that cloud my judgment to continue to exist forever and will eventually lynch you for them

Be assured that this only refers to my earlier reactions. I don't often self-reflect upon my methods unless it requires more explanation or felt like I made a mistake of judgement. If I'd be you and I'd see a player calling himself dumb for an uncalled reason, I'd be sure to fire.

[Zoshi]

It's day 1, I never have much to say day 1.

[Crazyjayde]

Didn't you reflect your last game? You got yourself a bandwagon pretty quickly for the exact same reasons, which even caused most players to have suspicions on you until end game. This lack of contribution is not pro-town in any way and does not correspond to how you would have played if you acknowledged the repercussions of your past activity. I mean, you're not giving any effort to be town right now or be part of the collectivity. Given the fact that you were full guard last time I'm sure you are smart enough to understand that not much good can come out of this.
I can have suspicions all you want about you, but I want to know if they're valid enough.

[FoJaR]

VOTECOUNT: Day 1 (ends Monday 8 PM EST)

cedo (2): V, jayde
freaky (2): yoman, jrodd
zoshi (2): dance, AC1
viccica (2): Manti, James
yoman (2): zoshi, freaky
James (1): viccica
jrodd (1): TPS
jayde (1): cedo

5 votes to lynch


nobody has voted since two pages ago, just putting it up here so you dont have to go looking for it.

[FoJaR]

for what it's worth one of my main handles online is Daisy

very important information everyone take notice

[j-rodd123]

@tps, vote on yoman was since I've never seen him posts lists or something and I felt that he was acting more confident than normal while still saying it was his first game back. Pretty tin foil reason which is why the vote is no longer there (sorry missed ur question first time through)

@jayde I don't think urs is a fair statement? I was agreeing with stuff I would have said relating to game decisions, and my votes were thrown around since I didn't have a solid read. Tbh I still don't, and today is my day where I won't be able to post for at least 13 more hours (I may try to sneak on my phone for like an hour this morning, but def can't this afternoon/evening while in the lab).

Now not an empty promise but expect me to reread the thread and read new info tonight when I get home and ill list all my reads and make a more pressing vote. I think my reading ability is pretty good in this game now, so ill def be taking time to do that tonight.

Attack me for useless excuse posts xoxoxo

[j-rodd123]

And I think daisy is super cute and suits u

[j-rodd123]

Is a super cute name*

[DarkManticoreX2]

Will attempt to re-read and make a contribution at some point today. I have Quarter close work that's been beating me up most of the week. That needs to be finished first.

[Crazyjayde]

I've been preparing some log info on everyone since start of Day 1. I might not be here today so it's best to release it now. This is the only time I'll do full analysis like that, but I'm doing it solely because of C9++ day phase start.
Take it for what it's worth, there's a lot of over-analyzing and mostly states my impressions. Tried my best to relate to past games but this is really just a profiling job.
I want to get people talking for next day since I don't see myself going very far into the game. Brace yourselves for uneducated reads.

Cleared for now

Seems like he is pushing in all the right directions, coordinating voting phases, encouraging discussions and delimiting potential areas of suspicion. From what I've gathered, there's nothing noteworthy from his usual posting style. Cursory but insightful comments. Doesn't seem like the guy who goes hands-on into it unless called for, more like the guy who does quick bursts of activity in defined directions. I don't have much from him based on this game, most of the comments were generalizations, but I'd be wary of this kind of activity further into the day phases. Going according to votes, most of those seemed convicting and centered around the obvious candidates. He is actually the one who redirected the suspicions back at YMIA with actual reasons that I can see myself relate to (and most others did too). He does seem more interested in Day 1 than any past games though, might be related to the dynamic of the game/having a power role.

Also said this, which I think is a nice guideline for early phase:

"We should be dividing contributory behavior and selfish behavior from the pool"

Wolfy, looking greener

Suspicions on him started as soon as he hit the thread, but I couldn't really tell if they came from my guts or my brain. His vote choices were really fishy at first since he even threw a revenge vote as soon as his name was bolded. The reaction from V got me interested in knowing more about both and I couldn't seem to understand why the guy would declare a vote on Jrodd with that much assurance, which he stated later was only to gain attention from others. In that sense, votes and activity were lazy early on. When I became part of the scene, it even looked like he believed my participation could serve as a way to evade suspicion.

I'm still confused by the fact that cedo did not take the glaring opportunity of my intervention to point the flaws I had left open and divert the attention from himself. I believe this would have been a reflex for most wolves However, later on, he does bring back the matter and casts a vote on me, which he first backs up with some potential reasoning but later states that he is simply moving the voting pool around. Intentions are getting mixed up, and it could either be because: A) clumsy play or B) because he realized how his vote was influenced on behalf of V's demand and felt the need to have the upper hand. These type of mistakes do add up as someone who does not have a clear intention about the game, and has to work under pressure to formulate satisfactory thoughts. Overall, I don't think it's unlikely for cedo to act like a lone wolf early on, which is what I base my suspicions on, but I do believe the input I gathered from him can also relate to his insecurity as a player, making my judgment biased. Thing is, both can be true. For all I care, if you are really town, you should refine your play right now.

Unclear, siding more towards wolf

Delivered less than I expected in terms of contribution. Assumed he was a meticulous player during pre-game from the way he stated how obsessed he was while playing TWG. Bunch of filler posts and votes in the start and then comes back, magically reappearing with a brief analysis of 6 players. This strikes me as a player who deliberately stays neutral and waits until attention is garnered around others to avoid suspicion. I might be wrong but I think I remember seeing him logging into the thread, keeping himself up to date with the current events. Can anybody validate this? I'm not sure of his level of awareness at the time of his post. Because it seems to me that his analysis made an excuse of how absent and uninformed he had been through the day, like if he had forgot about the thread, while really he only seemed shy. Things like "Sorry for disappearing!" or "Inactivity happens. Hell, I've been gone for 24 hours". The latter also serves as a way to discredit any suspicions on his activity while redirecting the argument towards another inactive player.

I also find danceguy analysis hard to digest since it mainly focuses on bringing new analysis on the table but offers less on the subjects at hand. While valuable, it does seem like a way to not be credited as bandwagoning and gain trust of major town components, which is all in a wolf's favor. With a few players on the end of his analysis, it might also seem like he's taking the opportunity to divert attention from desired people (why choose AC1/Manti over freaky/vicc?). In the end, I still don't understand why a player who can pull out educated opinions from people decides to vote on someone like Zoshi for inactivity reasons, when he's in the same exact position as him. To me, it's just an easy vote. Waiting for better contribution from him.

Seer candidate

Manti was my original reason to ask about wolves methods of communications, and I still think, given his ability to influence votes, that he could be able to indicate more than he's pretending. Manti did determine his initial suspicions, and he actually made some pushes in the direction of YMIA which were enough to generate bandwagoning. I feel like this post was more of an empty and easy accusation though, and did not deliver much in terms of reasoning (I basically support danceguy's idea). Seeing as how YMIA played since the beginning, it feels however unlikely that Manti would use his stature to influence a vote on a partner. I realize there's a possibility of us being wrong about YMIA, and Manti influencing a vote on his head. The possibility is low though, as it would only link us to Manti's pushes on him, and it'd be careless for him to be in such a situation. It's either a human (manti) to human (YMIA) or human (manti) to wolf (YMIA) situation. If things stagnate, I'm proposing an investigation on Manti (if possible), but that's really just a wild guess. I need to know the opinion of people who played with Manti/Manti himself.

5 bucks on him being actually townie

Hard to get a good read so I'll go with anything I can find. The guy seems really close to his last game behavior although his stubbornness seems bigger in proportion/out of place than earlier. This might hint to a facade but I prefer the idea of him being irritated by how last game had unraveled and his current life issues. A strong character that can definitely think for himself, and so I would not be surprised if he played it smart and hid himself under a cover. Given that he was the first to notice my question about the wolves possible methods of communication, I would have thought that he'd be more accusing regarding my approach but he seemed very cautious about the subject, even getting to the point of expressing his surprise, in contrast to his previous actions. This might be an instance of freaky getting out of character. The same reaction could have also been thrown to disorient players about himself (it did work). Playing this card could benefit a lot for a player with his posting style. Rest of the game seems fine to me, although he does get more irritated towards page 10 and starts anticipating a bandwagon. More emotional disturbances, but might actually lead to something. As for his vote on YMIA, he leaves the reasoning to others and keeps his suspicions solely on one person.

Dropped the soap

Nothing of relevance, seems to express growing interest about TWG. Hollow votes towards Vicc, Bleh.

Obviously being Jrodd

Again it's hard for me to pinpoint what is the norm for Jrodd, as he is not the kind of player who I expect to play consistently throughout past games. I don't know you that well but can kind of see a player fitting in by seeking posts he can relate to and reiterating the stances presented. Probably just because of lack of information during day phase. However, his votes are merely extensions of what the collectivity has already stated. Plus, I'm not sure about the reasoning behind freaky's and yoman's vote as well, not that they're not logical votes, but they do not sound to me like authentic reasons. Early suspicions, nothing too heavy. I hope to hear more about your opinions.

Towny, potential SK

Gets a good pressure vote against YMIA, discusses a lot of more important aspects of the game, and brings good arguments to the table. Every post seems to have good timing during the game and consists of observations more than anything. If you'd ask me, I'd say you're probably the one active player who is thinking more in a individualist mindset, trying to get a psychoanalysis of every players. Most of the exchanges seem to relies on establishing profiles and trying to distinguish important roles from the mass. Up to now, your voting tactic has been according to a certain strategy which seems to differ slightly from last game. What I'm pointing at, is that you did not express much interest in pinning wolves in proportion to what I saw you do before. Might be wrong, tell me.

Towny

Seriously, I'd be lying if I didn't relate to what he says as a villager. I had instances where he literally had the same perspective. Although I was a bit unfamiliar with his aggressive play style at first, I had to be sure it was all for valid reasons. I fail to see how the guy could be feeding wolves right now. Arising discussions, applying pressure where it's needed and responding nicely to odd behaviors. All in all, looks like usual V behavior. If not, any additional phases will tell us more. Only thing that really gets on my radar is that a leading role can be seen like someone manipulating the game to his favor.

Needs more thinking

I don't want to actually say anything as for now on Vicc because she's actually the only one that didn't ring any bell to me. Most of the votes on her pertained to earlier issues with James May and her inactivity. Which seems uncalled for. I also don't think her vote on James May is that reasonable since there's not much evidence to base it off anything. Although she does raise fundamental points. But that's all, really. For all I know, she described the game nicely, gave a small amount of input on everyone (which I thought was a good start to learn more about past experiences in TWG) and went back to bed. I have to read more thoroughly your posts.

Wolfy

His first reaction to TPS vote stroke me as a wolf doing a bad step and having an impulsive reaction from getting aimed at early on. The following post also seems to distance himself from his original reaction, by stating a logic to his actions. Excusing a behavior while saying you're rusted also seems like an easy escape route. The second post however does not succeed in presenting substantial info. In fact, it can be interpreted as a wolf trying to fit in after a failed attempt of keeping his mask on. Both the presentation and the content of the posts seems to be handled to look friendly and formal. Even then, most of his contributions seem to be circling around something unspeakable. (fillers, throws a vote when prompted to, but never actually goes into much detail).

I might be seeing things, but I'm actually starting to see a link between Cedo and YMIA. One page apart, they actually had the same selection of candidates for voting (freaky and me) but didn't choose the same. Also, YMIA included Cedo in his analysis post in such a way that he's not even holding any suspicion. (notice the part "I want to hear what else you have going on in your mind right now") I feel this comparison is absolutely far-fetched but I had to share it.

Assuming towny for now, although plays terribly

I've been looking at most of his participation in TWG past games, and I couldn't tell much difference between normality and this game. I don't have much to say except that the way he transitioned between votes without much input and the part where he excused himself for his inactivity felt half-assed. There might be some good evidence leading to him being a wolf appearing later on as opposed to now, but I think of him as a low chance of hitting a red. I mean, overall, there's better potential threats around.

[FoJaR]

the balance has been restored to the force.

external poster deleted.

[AC1speakerbox]

aww man, he read my old games

[AC1speakerbox]

Oh, this has been bugging me. Can everyone stop saying "oh I'm dumb" or "yeah that was super stupid of me" and other stuff like that. It's extremely unproductive to beat down the only person you can trust in this game-- yourself. V touched on this. You are the only sure thing in this game, and it doesn't help anybody to think of yourself poorly and project it to everyone in the thread. It tells others that you can be easily swayed by their opinions, which is obviously bad. Learn to stick to your guns, even if it looks weird.

[Zoshi]

Can't tell if CrazyJade is a pro human or just a wolf trying reaaaaally hard to look human.

[AC1speakerbox]

and that's about the closest thing to a contribution we've seen from you

thanks bud