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Old 07-12-2011, 01:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

A lot of games, especially FPS games, are going for graphics over game play as well. Sure, graphics are nice but I'd rather have great game play with okay graphics than great graphics with okay game play. Game play is really limited when they are linear like those and it's really about the interactive play and graphics only, while we can just ignore everything else pretty much. I don't play very many FPS games, though.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I'll totally agree that today's games have become mindless. With the exception of portable systems, the only new console I have is the Wii, and I only have it because it was a Christmas present. One fine example of what games have become is Final Fantasy. The first 12 games focused a great deal on storyline and depth. 13, IMO, didn't have that. Sure, it had great graphics and, depending on you ask, a pretty high difficulty, but the story itself was crap. On a lighter note, all of the popular games today are simple and extremely easy. FPS games require skill in the game, but if you practice, you can get it down pretty well in just a few months(unless you just suck), and all you really do in the game is run around with a gun, shoot people, and don't get shot. Other games that are really popular today are games like Just Dance and other motion games that require hardly any skill at all. Marvel vs Capcom 3 was pretty amazing, but it is also pretty easy when you compare it to the first 2 games; it is EXTREMELY easy to be cheap in that game without really knowing how to play. The first Kingdom Hearts game was ridiculously hard IMO, I still have never beaten it. However, all you had to do to beat KH2 was press the triangle button.

On an ending note, games that were popular when I grew up were Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, Zelda(however, that game is still great today so whatever), Final Fantasy, and others that were filled with depth and huge worlds. Popular games of today are Call of Duty, Halo, and simple motion sensor games. Bleh.
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

yes games nowadays are way too easy i remember playing Quest 64 and it taking forever to beat it. but and to bring up KH the first one was so much harder than the second.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I wouldn't say modern FPS campaigns are mindless. even if players know exactly where to go, there can still be opportunities for exploration on a smaller scale. in the Halo series, for example, players can't just breeze through by running straight from point A to point B with guns blazing. it's often necessary to survey an area and figure out how best to pick off each enemy without getting shot up too much at one time.

that being said, I don't like the fact that key-and-door puzzles have been nonexistent in the genre for so long. maybe indie developers will resurrect the idea? we can only hope.

I feel like "games these days are sooooo easy" has been thrown around to the point of becoming trite. which games? on what difficulty? are they easy enough to complete without encountering any major obstacles, or do they simply not use the classic "lives" system that forces players to restart the entire game? of course it's easy to look back at the SNES/Genesis era and think, "those were the days." there were a lot of tremendous games that will hopefully still be passed down to future generations. if you're willing to expand beyond that base, though, there are many fun challenges to be had with today's games as well.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

The problem lies in pop mentality. This is the same case with most media. The public enjoys anything that is simple and easy to follow, while being catchy and addictive. Video gaming is now considered a pop activity, and with the rise of casual and indie gaming, there's a lot of reasons why developers take the easy way out.

One problem is the lack of focus on game design itself. Game design is just as much of an art form as the art and music in the game itself. However, a lot of people nowadays don't care for how well the game mechanics work and are balanced, nor do they have a taste for it. If there is no gateway for catching their interest, the mechanics don't leave an impression and they aren't appreciated.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

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Originally Posted by dAnceguy117 View Post
I wouldn't say modern FPS campaigns are mindless. even if players know exactly where to go, there can still be opportunities for exploration on a smaller scale. in the Halo series, for example, players can't just breeze through by running straight from point A to point B with guns blazing. it's often necessary to survey an area and figure out how best to pick off each enemy without getting shot up too much at one time.

that being said, I don't like the fact that key-and-door puzzles have been nonexistent in the genre for so long. maybe indie developers will resurrect the idea? we can only hope.

I feel like "games these days are sooooo easy" has been thrown around to the point of becoming trite. which games? on what difficulty? are they easy enough to complete without encountering any major obstacles, or do they simply not use the classic "lives" system that forces players to restart the entire game? of course it's easy to look back at the SNES/Genesis era and think, "those were the days." there were a lot of tremendous games that will hopefully still be passed down to future generations. if you're willing to expand beyond that base, though, there are many fun challenges to be had with today's games as well.
I don't think games have to be breakneck-difficult to be well-made, necessarily. I'd consider OoT an example of a game that isn't too easy and yet isn't too hard. Problem is that even on Halo, I *can* A-to-B it with little strategy, even on the hardest modes. Hiding spots are usually obvious and overly easy to utilize.

I do agree that exploration on a smaller scale might be the ideal compromise -- levels that are large but not to the point where you're backtracking constantly in a maze-like environment. *Some* degree of linearity is needed to keep the game flowing smoothly so you don't get lost and frustrated.

"Which games? On what difficulty?" I'd say "Most games, even on the hardest difficulties." Nowadays when I get a new game, I launch right into the hardest mode that I can. I find that while there are plenty of present-day games with adequate difficulty weights, too many of them are a bit watered down at the higher ends still.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Have you guys played super mario galaxy 1 and 2? Sure the main story was pretty easy but both of those games were incredibly difficult to 100%. I think this sort of gameplay attributes to the problems you guys are finding with games. The difficulty is in fully completing a game, but beating it normally is so easy you just don't care to go the extra mile (I know I have this problem a lot).
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Not just mindless and easy but extremely uncreative.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Maybe you've gotten too good at video games? All the games you mentioned are games that you probably played when you were significantly younger. (less skilled at video games?)
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

contra 3 alien wars is just as hard now as it was when i was a kid. same goes for all the other games i played
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Another issue is that a lot of games don't realize the potential of a lot of the concepts they create.

For example, take the Checkerboard Chase minigame from Kirby 64: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-iASkwCKYA

This could easily become a very simple high-speed tactical multiplayer game, but the game designers never took this idea further.

Another example is the Crashball series from Crash Bash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnaWvC-26qM

Some of the variations of this can be quite random and slightly unfair in certain situations, but in general the concept has potential to be a very competitive multiplayer action classic.

Nowadays, people are so used to the kinds of games that they play that they don't really come up with anything new. Original concepts such as these will become more and more rare as video game genres become more and more standardized.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

I'm a casual gamer. I don't mind games being too easy.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

A good example of a well made game with not as good graphics as one would like, is Shinobi for the PS2. TONNES of exploration, there was a great amount of difficulty, and it's good because it's a game that you can only get better at.

A good example of a badly made game with really bad gameplay... I can't say I remember one because I usually stay the **** away from games like that and erase the trauma from my brain really fast.

I do remember one now though. Mortal Kombat? I mean, sure. Graphic-wise, it's a good game, but I haven't played a game with worse controls and worse story line. In Armageddon I don't even want to touch it because watching my Brother play it I caught so many shitty things like Taven talking to himself (bad story telling), and cheap AI that practically reacts to button pushes and not actual moves being used.

Also, I have to agree that newer games are getting sickeningly easy. I mean, even remakes. OOT for the 64? PHSAW. It was difficult of sorts. OOT for the 3DS? WTF. I beat it in a week with 1.3 hours average gameplay time. I didn't even find it hard. They gave you way too many shortcut buttons making it easy, and I am SURE the drop rate had increased at least a little bit.

RPGs from the SNES era were WAY harder for me than the ones from the PS2 era, too. I can breeze through games that aren't cheap (like, say Star Ocean: Till the End of Time's battle system) but, give me a SNES game like Earthbound and I will play it and be finished after a longer time than it took to beat a PS2 RPG.

But when it comes to mindless gameplay I say that FPSes are taking the cake. I haven't played a single "puzzling" FPS in too long. It's usually telling me what to do every time I finish something.

To finish off this rant/explanation I will just say that is a game good because it has a superior story, or graphics, or gameplay? Or is it a good game because it is fun? You decide.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Great topic. A fine example is Banjo Kazooie. Remember Banjo Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge? That was a ****ing hard game. The most recent Banjo Kazooie game is Nuts & Bolts which was easier than falling off a turtle.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Has anyone else here happened to play Descent? It was an absolutely amazing game. It is the only FPS I know that has even attempted multi-directional controls and is still one of the most standout games that I know. Why can't developers try more stuff like this?
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:51 PM   #36
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Has anyone else here happened to play Descent? It was an absolutely amazing game. It is the only FPS I know that has even attempted multi-directional controls and is still one of the most standout games that I know. Why can't developers try more stuff like this?
Yep, I absolutely loved Descent 1 and 2. A great example of excellent play control.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Sometimes mindless is quite acceptable and desired. Shooting down endless hordes while being practically a god and nigh unkillable can be quite entertaining sometimes and a decent way to blow off steam.

That being said i greatly prefer games that do not require exploration, but have the option. Okami, for instance, was absolutely wonderful. Large, but not too much so, plenty of hidden things to do. Only downside was the lack of difficulty. Obviously there should be some cap to difficulty, but i still like a decent challenge. It's not normally a bother if a game is lacking in one but has the other, to me. I don't mind running in a straight line so long as it's difficult to get to the end of that line. I don't mind running around exploring so long as i don't get killed too often. After all, who likes retracing their steps through large swaths of land? If i died in the Calm Lands in FFX every 10 steps, for instance, i would've simply put the game down and not touched it, regardless of how beautiful the story is.

Moderation is key, and that's difficult for people. As far as the multiplayer/single player thing goes, honestly if your game is going to be centered around your multiplayer i don't care how the single player is. When i played WoW i couldn't give two shits about questing, but raiding and PvP was great fun. If, however, single player is all you have, then make it worth a damn. I was utterly disappointed with FFXIII because of the linearity and lack of a need to think while in combat. Hitting X/A repeatedly to make it auto select attacks after a quick scan of the enemy hardly makes it a game, in my opinion.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:23 PM   #38
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Default Re: Have games become too easy/mindless?

Okami was enjoyable on every aspect. Although all the battles, including the bosses, were really easy. I would play this game because of its waterpainted art :]
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:16 PM   #39
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Okami was enjoyable on every aspect. Although all the battles, including the bosses, were really easy. I would play this game because of its waterpainted art :]
True, but I wouldn't really count that. I think the games mostly being referred to are the ones in the current generation, and although Okami is technically on the Wii, its known for its glory days in the PS2, which I think is one of the greatest systems ever made.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:19 PM   #40
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Problem is that even on Halo, I *can* A-to-B it with little strategy, even on the hardest modes. Hiding spots are usually obvious and overly easy to utilize.
that's quite impressive. I'm not great at shooters or anything, but I just can't get past much on legendary without having to stop and take my time. I think I understand how this aspect of Halo could be improved upon though.

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"Which games? On what difficulty?" I'd say "Most games, even on the hardest difficulties." Nowadays when I get a new game, I launch right into the hardest mode that I can. I find that while there are plenty of present-day games with adequate difficulty weights, too many of them are a bit watered down at the higher ends still.
that's fair. I guess I'm just irritated when someone seems to suggest that none of the games on 360 or any other current platform can hold a candle to their favorite game from 1993. there are absolutely some worthy challenges and experiences out there. has the average game been getting steadily easier to finish since the NES era? sure, at least a little bit, and I think that's been a necessary change. I don't think this trend will persist. (man I hope I'm right.)

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cheap AI that practically reacts to button pushes and not actual moves being used
if anything, recent fighters have gotten better about this imo.

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Nowadays, people are so used to the kinds of games that they play that they don't really come up with anything new. Original concepts such as these will become more and more rare as video game genres become more and more standardized.
I agree completely. this problem compounds itself within the industry, too. the number of rehashed sequels is through the roof. it's scary enough for a big developer to crank out a new IP with familiar mechanics, let alone for them to build something new and fresh from the ground up. giant publisher cranks out generic core title -> consumers gobble it up, demand more of the same -> giant publisher ups the ante by shifting money from development costs into hype and advertising... scary stuff.
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