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Old 05-29-2007, 05:21 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Capital punishment is a barbaric institution with absolutely no justification. This thread is littered with the already effectively countered cost arguments, and people claiming that if what a person does is "really really bad and they are a threat to society" that it is our obligation to kill that person on the basis that it will remove said threat to society and serve as a deterrant of violent crime.

First point: Killing someone does not deter crime, but merely institutionalizes it in the form of governmental practice.

Killing someone does not remove the threat from society any more than does life in prison, which is--given statistics--a much more cost-effective option.

Second Point: I want to start off by saying that these issues are not inherent with the death penalty per se, but rather problems that have developed as a result of its poor execution.

Statistics imply massive problems with the death penalty in regard to its distribution based on race (statistics have already been given) and minorites are with disturbing frequency the brunt of this practice.

The practice of capital punishment has become incredibly expensive through the process of appeals and maintenance of criminals during their time on death row. Tax payers money is being wasted on an institution that does not benefit society in ANY way, but only exists to satisfy the vengeful wishes of a victim's loved ones.

Final statements: The death penalty simply cannot be justified as anything except a violent, brutal method of meeting a victim's family's desire for revenge. The emotions of loved ones is an empathizable story indeed, but not one that can legally or morally justify the eye for an eye philosophy that cannot exist in a truly equal society.
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:33 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

I do not approve of the death penalty. Why? While it may be "humane" (which I don't entirely approve of either), they fail to think of the consequences. I mean sure, that person may have killed 10-20 people (just using an example), but seriously. It doesn't give them the right to kill. In my opinion, Capitol Punishment should be ended and 'il'legalized.

I know quite a few people who have friends who have faced the Capitol Punishment. Luckily for me I live in Canada, one of the few places where Capitol Punishment is not believed in, nor legal.
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:35 PM   #63
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

/ships our deathrow inmates to Canada :0
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

All America's secret operations happens outside of the country for a reason.

They aren't really secret because we all know they use inhumane ways of torture on people the government doesn't like.

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Old 05-30-2007, 10:56 AM   #65
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

First of all, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, second of all at least within the past 50 years or so secret detainment and torture have occurred within the United States.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:09 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
The statement is less an objective one of actual numbers (Like, it isn't therefore saying that if only 10 guilty persons escape it is therefore justified for one person to suffer) and more of a statement of the purpose of the justice system as a whole.

The numbers are irellevant, the statement is saying that if there is even the -slightest most miniscule tiny chance that maybe the person is not guilty - then they ought not to be punished because, as the saying implies: It is better than -any number- of guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer.

Unfortunately, since that level of incontrovertible truth is functionally impossible to obtain, we have to settle for "Beyond a -reasonable- doubt" but even "reasonable" is a term up for debate.
So without needless expressions. I am skimming, so do you really support the death penalty? Or do you have limits to what happens. With me, shooting someone in the heart, or a more simple way, gassing/hanging is a much better way of eliminating the unjustly.

Still, I support it.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:13 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
The statement is less an objective one of actual numbers (Like, it isn't therefore saying that if only 10 guilty persons escape it is therefore justified for one person to suffer) and more of a statement of the purpose of the justice system as a whole.

The numbers are irellevant, the statement is saying that if there is even the -slightest most miniscule tiny chance that maybe the person is not guilty - then they ought not to be punished because, as the saying implies: It is better than -any number- of guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer.

Unfortunately, since that level of incontrovertible truth is functionally impossible to obtain, we have to settle for "Beyond a -reasonable- doubt" but even "reasonable" is a term up for debate.
So without needless expressions. I am skimming, so do you really support the death penalty? Or do you have limits to what happens. With me, shooting someone in the heart, or a more simple way, gassing/hanging is a much better way of eliminating the unjustly.

Still, I support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightPrincess View Post
I do not approve of the death penalty. Why? While it may be "humane" (which I don't entirely approve of either), they fail to think of the consequences. I mean sure, that person may have killed 10-20 people (just using an example), but seriously. It doesn't give them the right to kill. In my opinion, Capitol Punishment should be ended and 'il'legalized.

I know quite a few people who have friends who have faced the Capitol Punishment. Luckily for me I live in Canada, one of the few places where Capitol Punishment is not believed in, nor legal.
Inhumane? I disagree. There are children that are raped and killed. There are also terrorists who killed our people and a more remembering day, 9/11, where hundreds of people were killed.

If someone shoots someone, I say shoot them back. If someones life is taking, than equivalent exchange needs to take place. If Iraq kills 1000 of our people, we will kill 1000 of their people.

President Bush, being smart, will kill all of the terrorists that live in Iraq.

Still, I support.

[SORRY DOUBLE POSTED!]
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:51 PM   #68
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
With me, shooting someone in the heart, or a more simple way, gassing/hanging is a much better way of eliminating the unjustly.

Still, I support it.
What's your moral justification?

Quote:
Inhumane? I disagree. There are children that are raped and killed. There are also terrorists who killed our people and a more remembering day, 9/11, where hundreds of people were killed.
Several thousand people were killed in 9/11. I still don't see what your point is. "There's evil in the world"? How does that make it humane to introduce more evil, even in reciprocation?

Quote:
If someone shoots someone, I say shoot them back. If someones life is taking, than equivalent exchange needs to take place. If Iraq kills 1000 of our people, we will kill 1000 of their people.
Iraq is a country. Countries can't kill people. Thus the problem is revealed, there's no conceivable way for effective exchange in terms of lives. If 1 person kills 1000, that's only one guilty party, but you demand the full sacrifice to satiate your killers conscience. If someone you care about is killed, you support killing the killer, if someone you don't care about is killed you don't. You condone the killing of people who care about the killer, or who care about the people you're killing in reciprocation. What kind of morality is this? It's blood lust, blind rage directed at anyone associated with, similar to, or standing next to whoever it is that agitated you. And this agitation isn't even direct. You know who doesn't deserve to live? You. But I'm not going to do anything about it, because even if you or people like you go on to kill thousands I'm not entitled to take your life. I'm not going to make the same mistakes as you.

Quote:
President Bush, being smart, will kill all of the terrorists that live in Iraq.
He'll kill a good deal more people than that, which is itself somberly impressive because Iraq has degenerated further and further since American military intervention. Terrorists, once virtually non-existent in the country, now control it. They keep flooding in. Saddam Hussein may have been brutal but his brutality kept the region tightly policed and controlled. Now that he's gone the subsequent power vacuum has allowed for our enemies to thrive like they never have before. So keep on supporting things based on your hatred, you're only bringing death upon yourself, your friends, your family, and me. But I don't care, if that's the only way peace can be attained then so be it.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:41 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

[/quote]On the other hand, as many as 10% of all deathrow inmates are innocent, I heard that on A&E.

What's your take on it?[/quote]

Even if they are guilty, it's still not right because you're stooping down to that death row inmate's level of homicide (supposing that's why he/she's there). The death penalty is murder and should therefore be illegal.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Let us see if this works.

First, it is agreed by one and all that the sanctity of life is paramount and must be protected above all else. In order to protect life a systematic codification of laws, consequences and exceptions has been instituted. As part of legal consequences to be considered, the death penalty is included.

Secondly, the death penalty is just that: a penalty. It is supposed to be meted out, not by vengeful relations, but by a dispassionate legal system. Therefore it is not a person getting revenge but a systematic judgement of one's actions and the consequences for those actions.

Third, the justice system has a comprehensive system of checks and balances designed to protect the individual's rights to a fair trial such that, in the end, it could be said that the criminal had a chance to plead his case.

It is possible that if all the conditions were properly and adequately met, then very few people would argue that the death penalty was unjust.

The problem is not with the penalty itself, but with the inadequacies of the legal system. There only needs to be one false conviction, one misstep, and the fear of further errors freezes the confidence the society has in the justice system and in the fairness of a death penalty conviction and that is the real issue facing our society.

The death penalty is a fair and proper consequence for inappropriate actions if it is available at the time of the crime. It is not a matter of stooping down to any level but standing up to what is wrong. If the perpetrator commits a crime, then he must be subject to the consequences for that crime and we as a society must declare our support for law and order by supporting the punishment for that crime.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:38 AM   #71
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

As if one "The Death Penalty" thread wasn't enough for eager exhibitionists to exercise their pseudo-intellectual knowledge on topics as inflexible and controversial as this. And shame on me for posting in the previous thread as well as this one. Using Guidohunter's fine analogy, this topic is simply a meaningless tier of consecutive arguments. One person suggests red and others presents it as green to which subsequent posts babbles about the exact tonalities of the green with full loads of purple proses and pedantic observations. It's all too common with the conventional bravado and psychodrama of individuals who enjoys presenting themselves as "intelligent" on, ironically, a gaming site.

Take it any way you will. I feel shamed to have been a participant in this thing called "Critical Thinking".
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:50 AM   #72
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Quote:
Take it any way you will. I feel shamed to have been a participant in this thing called "Critical Thinking".
So don't post. Postwhoring to shoot your mouth off just as subjectively about the quality of the threads in the forum does nothing to endear you to those who actually know of what they speak.

The proper course of action in this thread would be to have reported it for being a bump of the older and less posted in thread, instead of the one which was the proud winner of the 2008 forum awards best thread of the year.
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