Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[stargroup100]

How is my logic flawed? It's simple and straightforward. YOU even made a few statements that indirectly support this idea.

Originally Posted by Knoobish

I wonder if some sort of FFR-wide poll could be done, like on the entry page, that would ask how many people have KB's that can register 4 keystrokes at the same time. I think that at this point the amount of people who are not able to hit quads is grossly overestimated.

Just throwing that out there.

Pros/Support
- Expanded creativity
- More fun factor
- People CAN register the keys

Cons/Disagree
- Limited to spread playing style, but

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

People have learned how to hit hands on pad, they can figure out how to do it index as well.

so this point is ineffective.
- Will lead to overlayering. (also ineffective because they can be used for more than layering)
- Everyone cannot play every file (many people still cannot play many files. this idea could be considered ineffective since this idea is almost impossible by now)

Outlined everything. Anything I missed?

edit: ok both me AND behan approve of the idea. now you guys can see I'm not f*cking nuts and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

[behanjc]

K here's my thoughts. First of all, quit with the keyboard not registering crap.
Firstly, there is in-game key remapping, and there are very few keyboards that have NO setups that will work. Secondly, the game already allows things that are extremely close to, and that the average player would hit as a hand. Even in early files such as Evil Approaches. My bet is the average player hits that one part as if the file contained hands.

Which leads to the second point. If you allow 48th notes into jumps and similar patterns, what's the difference with hands?

Next, index is a style that one chooses to play. For the average indexer, even slow jumpstream is very difficult, but people still find a way to do it, or avoid those files without complaints. On the contrary, indexers have a big advantage on left trills and jacks that spread players struggle on. Evidently, many people try to avoid the use of many annoying spread patterns, but files with left trills and jacks certainly still make it into the game. Hands should be the same. Adding hands is just another phase that will cause people to either rant, change styles, or most likely continue playing as normal.

All of this must be taken from the average players perspective. Most people posting here are of above average skill, and are in fact the minority. The average player can't even come close to FCing VD songs. Why don't we just not add any songs that are VD or above? Obviously because people like challenges, which hands would bring. So adding hands would not make much of a difference to the majority of players who wouldn't be able to do well on the file anyway, yet still play because of the challenge factor. Of course there will be mixed reactions to start, but it's just a new phase we have to get used to.

[jimerax]

So did you guys ever heard of people's voices when Blooddrunk was released, or P4U v1 back back in 2003? Aside from the hand usage in those files, there were a lot more people who complained about hands than people who liked them. Being fun for file creators/skilled people doesn't mean hands are fun for majority of people as well.

a few of C/VC files could support hands if they are used really carefully IMO though, so that's why I said there're a few exceptions (or something like ding dong song).

[stargroup100]

gj ignoring what behan said

edit: jimerax, you do realize those negative comments were before the public believed triples and quads could be used effectively. when blue rose was released everyone loved it, no complaints at all

[Xx{Midday}xX]

I use hands to do "pseudo-hands" (quads for pseudo-quads too, like Adventures of Lolo, second half, 12th note with 8th jumps) all the time, as behanjc points out. As stargroup100 states, hands are useful. There is no reason why the optimum quality of simfile precision should be regulated by anything other than the limits of the game function (ie freezes aren't put in because the game won't register them). If hands make more accurate simfiles in accordance to the song, I don't see why hands should be restricted to FMO FGO simfiles. What reason (besides the key registering) do players have in complaining about hands without complaining about other step patterns? As behanjc states, hands are no more than another step pattern, which can bring about more (or less imo) difficulty in comparison to trills and jacks. If they're complaining, there has to be a reason. Keymapping is solved. No more reasons exist imo, except for "ITZ TOO HARD ZOMG"

Kotarouchan can do hands fine (index). She told me all she has to do is play them real fast, like rolls. It's not impossible, or so she says. (Sorry for mentioning your name here, Kota =/ I don't play index...)

I fully support the utilization of hands. I fully support the opinions of behanjc and stargroup100.

Also, my stepfiles have many hands and quads regardless of difficulty level.

[jimerax]

Well you guys can submit any files with hands, they're just rejected if hands don't fit the music very well or don't match the difficulty of the files.

examples for good hands placement in general.

- placed on an intense part with 3+ instruments.
- placed for accents like orchestra-hits or symbals along with other instruments.
- possibly it should be isolated from other rhythms, don't make handstreams or something.
- don't put them randomly, they should be used consistently (of course, never overuse).

ps. quads will give the file a lot more probability of rejection than triples.

[Knoobish]

I did say grossly overestimated btw... as in, I feel like there's way too many people saying their KB's won't register hands/quads when in reality there's probably less than 1% of the players who have this issue. I think some people may have misinterpreted that.

Frankly, I agree with stargroup. There is really no reason it would be too hard to put in some really easily placed hands/quads in lower than FMO/FGO files if they fit the music.

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

edit: ok both me AND behan approve of the idea. now you guys can see I'm not f*cking nuts and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

i approved of it too u no... :<:<:<:<



with jx's statement, are we now allowed to submit any files with hands or what

[jimerax]

I won't allow hands on something like VD or easier files. In C-VC files hands will still most likely be rejected unless they are excellent, but it basically depends on Tass.



stargroup "WOW I made an awesome beginner's file with only quads.. this is so unique and creative!!!"



















meh

just kidding.

[omgitznpv]

tasselfoot "WOW I made an awesome beginner's file with only quads.. this is so unique and creative!!!"




































meh

not kidding

[jimerax]

yeah, it was a vrofl syndrome on April Fool.

[EnR]

Originally Posted by jimerax

So did you guys ever heard of people's voices when Blooddrunk was released, or P4U v1 back back in 2003?

Atleast 90% of the people that complained are people that play FMO/FGO and can't even FC VD's, so they think it's to hard and complain.

[stargroup100]

ok let's make a deal

I want to submit a song that is easy, and filled with triples and a few quads here and there. I mean like, TONS of triples and quads. If it's super fun, put it in the game asap as a special release. If it's not, reject it.

How's that? :3

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

:3

:3

[jimerax]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

:3

(゚ω゚=)

If you really don't think it will waste our time, go ahead.

[Tasselfoot]

you are not special... no matter how many times your mama tells you.

[stargroup100]

you're just mad because I do more for ffr than you

[Tasselfoot]

god damn did that make me laugh.

[Xandertrax]

So, I finally fixed up DeVour. I stepped every little bassline drill. It's a FGO++.

Queue is opening back up in July?

I need to find another song for my 2nd.

[dore]

My take:

Hands are very hittable index. Most index players (even your average Joe index players) have enough speed to hit two simultaneous notes with one finger. With very little index experience I found it pretty easy to hit jumps playing one-fingered; I don't see how hands for index players are any different. Most people will adjust, a few will bitch but that's the same for most unique files.

I think that they should be used in moderation like every other pattern, because they can get annoying. But with moderation they can be used well and become great additions to a file.

Also, there's a hand in The Epidemic of Unexpected Relapses, did anyone complain about that? Sure, it's unintentional, and its noteskin is misleading, but the fact remains that there are three notes on one frame. It's noteskin suggests hitting one note slightly earlier than the other two; I think most players will learn that playing hands like that works fine and that you can still achieve perfects that way.

I also think that it appears that more players are against hands than for them. But I think it just happens that more people are vocally against hands than people who are vocally for hands. I think that the average player doesn't mind either way and as long as files don't turn into handfests then they will be acceptable, fun patterns.