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View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?
Yes 146 59.35%
No 100 40.65%
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Old 05-7-2008, 11:34 AM   #121
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

I'm curious how you can claim to feel guilt for actions when you insist that ethics and morality don't exist and don't apply to you.

Clearly you have a moral code, or you couldn't feel bad for acting in opposition to it.
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Old 05-7-2008, 12:07 PM   #122
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

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Also, ethics and morality seem to be a built-in mindset to human beings. I hate the feeling of "guilt" I feel when I do something "morally wrong." It's a frustrating contradiction. My mind believes that ethics and morality are unnecessary illusions, yet my body reacts to them in the manner most people do.

Haha, sorry, no need to derail any further from the topic, I guess.
Nature is my moral code. And I despise it. I hate the nature of human beings as a whole. I'm a human being, and therefore, am subject to the laws of human nature, regardless of whether I hate the idea or not. Ethics and morality definitely apply to me. I just don't like the fact that it does.

Lol, I'm talking about ethics and morality, 15 minutes before my IB Math Exam XD.
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Old 05-7-2008, 03:26 PM   #123
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Midday, go express yourself vibrantly in the Misanthropy thread. (LOL)

One is subjected by moral because one is a part of society. And in my opinion, society is contradictory in essence too. It keeps pandemonium out the door, yet, it is also a tacit manifestation of human attributes. The widely accepted forms of "acceptable" ego is mutually agreeable by all members of society.
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Old 05-7-2008, 06:47 PM   #124
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

As an aside, because I notice you did it in the misanthropy thread as well:

'Moral' is an adjective. You say "moral codes" or "moral actions" When you want to use it as a noun, it's 'morality'

One is subjected to morality
One is a subject of morality
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Old 05-7-2008, 07:56 PM   #125
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
mor·al Pronunciation[mawr-uhl, mor-]
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
–noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.



I believe I justified myself.
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Old 05-7-2008, 08:04 PM   #126
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

The noun version of that word is applied in things like

"The moral of the story is"

To say "We are bound by moral" is not correct. Because what you are bound by is a) morality or b) a moral code (Notice how it's being used as an adjective there)

mo·ral·i·ty Audio Help /məˈrælɪti, mɔ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muh-ral-i-tee, maw-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties for 4–6. 1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2. moral quality or character.
3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4. a doctrine or system of morals.
5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.
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Old 05-7-2008, 08:11 PM   #127
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

I agree with devonin about the usage of morality vs. morals. I took the SAT, and I had something similar to that on the test.

What are you guys talking about anyway XD? English Language Arts lol. Quite the aside.
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Old 05-7-2008, 08:23 PM   #128
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

10. the embodiment or type of something.

embodiment means that the moral is a generality for the various collective aspects and rules of morals. So technically, it isn't wrong to say "I am bound by morals"
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Old 05-7-2008, 10:56 PM   #129
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

But you said "by moral" not "by morals" you may think of that as only semantics, but since I think it makes the difference between correct and incorrect usage, I stand by my pointing it out.
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Old 05-8-2008, 12:08 AM   #130
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Getting a little off-topic, aren't we?

Anyways, everyone should have some kind of moral code. Otherwise, we'd all go out committing every kind of sin and break the 10 commandments (if you're not religous, then I'll just that we'd all be evil). This is why we are all human. This is why we control our actions and stay in school. This is why the death penalty is wrong. If we use it, others will think of us without a "strong" moral code. We'd feel bad to kill someone, regardless if he/she is a murdurer or not. Every problem can be solved without killing each other. We are just too lazy to think of a reasonable solution, and don't think that killing is reasonable.
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Old 05-8-2008, 12:40 AM   #131
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

This is like misanthropy thread all over again. And yes Devonin, I'm pondering how to counter your nihilist accusations.

Fair enough to the morals/moral. Might have been a typo since it does sound funny without (s).
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Old 05-8-2008, 04:44 AM   #132
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

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Anyways, everyone should have some kind of moral code. Otherwise, we'd all go out committing every kind of sin and break the 10 commandments (if you're not religous, then I'll just that we'd all be evil).
The misanthropy thread has some great things to say about the consequences of concluding that there is no such thing as morality.

Since you pretty much can't argue for an actual -objective- morality without also arguing functionally for the existence of a God or some other being to be your objective source of what is right or wrong, any ethical code we develop is necessarily subjective as a consequence.

People decide what they personally and collectively as a group want to call right and wrong, and that is their moral code. Since they are completely subjective, there really aren't grounds to question someone else's code without appealing to your own subjective ethics. If you think human sacrifice is okay, the only way I can tell you that it isn't is to say "I don't think it's okay" But why is my opinion any stronger than yours since we have no objective source of morality in the universe to appeal to?
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Old 05-8-2008, 06:47 PM   #133
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

I have to take the side of Jefferson and Locke when they stated that all men have inalienable rights; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness/property. I agree with Locke when he said that everyone is born “Tabula rasa”, and if everyone is born a blank slate then everyone would be of the same value when they are born and should therefore have the same rights. No one should be denied these rights if they don’t deny someone else these rights.
As to the question, “why is my opinion any stronger than yours since we have no objective source of morality in the universe to appeal to?” Like I said I agree with Locke, everyone is born a blank slate and only through our environments are we made different in mind. Through experiences minds are made stronger or smarter. Following the law of nature, we are under the code of “survival of the fittest”, those with stronger minds are going to dominate the others and with more experiences, comes more knowledge, and with more knowledge one can make more informed decisions which are of a greater value.
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Old 05-8-2008, 07:33 PM   #134
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

If we are following the code of survival of the fittest, how can you possibly reconcile that with the claim that we all have the same rights?

Same rights for everybody espouses "survival of everybody, regardless of how fit" which is rather contradictory to simply "survival of the fittest"
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Old 05-9-2008, 08:48 AM   #135
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

I'd like to point out that the ideas of Jefferson and Locke and other great thinker and philosophers are just IDEAS not facts, in fact a lot of the time these ideas are drastically different.

We can all try to claim that I have "this right and that right" but we cannot possibly know what rights we actually have except to live or die since they are default (i.e you are living now, you are gonna die)
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Old 05-9-2008, 12:48 PM   #136
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

The "right" to live/die is not equivalent to the "act" of living/dying.

"Right" is equivalent to "privilege" which is determined not only by yourself, but by those that subject you to their power. We all know that (under today's circumstances) living things will eventually meet a death. The question here is whether other people have the "right" to end another person's life as punishment for a "morally wrong" action.

Law is only a theory. It cannot be proven right or wrong, but can only be accepted by majority rule. This majority is determined by the moral code inherent to humans in nature. This moral code is classified under emotional thinking, which I believe to be completely irrational and unnecessary in practicality. As long as this moral code tells the majority of the people that the death penalty is immoral, that will be the law. Same thing goes for the opposite idea.

If we go all the way back to an original source, almost everything regarding ethics, morality, rules, law, etc., can be considered as just ideas and never facts.
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Old 06-1-2008, 04:23 PM   #137
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Never. Too many innocent people have died as a result of the death penalty. Here's something for you to think about... 81% of the world's executions in 2002 took place in just three countries: China, Iran, and the USA. While he was still running for his first presidential term, George W. Bush said he felt capital punishment "sends a chilling message that there is a consequence to your actions". In the same speech he spoke of the "sacredness of human life". Since 1990, the USA has executed more prisoners who were under the age of eighteen at the time of the crime then any other country in the world.

In 80% of executions since 1977, the original murder victims were white.
A report by Amnesty International lists 50 cases where African-Americans were convicted by all-white juries, each one showing a pattern of black juror exclusion by government prosecutors.

At the the 1985 execution of James Raulerson, convicted of killing a police officer, more then 70 police attended, some wearing T-shirts reading "Crank up old Sparky". They celebrated with champagne and applause outside the prison.

A volunteer witness at the 2000 execution of Steve Roach said it was her third time, and that she kept volunteering because she found them "interesting". Another witness reportedly came to watch Roach die as a way of avenging the killing of her own son- for which no one had ever been convicted.

Napoleon Beazley, who was 17 at the time of his crime, in which he killed a man during a car jacking, an act he admitted to, had no prior arrests and was president of his senior class. He was sentenced to death by an all-white jury. Before his execution , he declared: "The act I committed to put me here was not just heinous, it was senseless. Tonight, we declare to the world that justice does not allow for a second chance... tonight, we tell our children that in some instances, killing is right."
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Old 06-1-2008, 05:36 PM   #138
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

Some of the most recent posts in this thread don't make sense. First off, generally Thomas Jefferson and John Locke shared one philosophy, we all know it commonly in the American constitution. All people (really just white, property owning males) are born with the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Actually, that's Jefferson's version. Locke followed a similar belief: Life, liberty, and property. Either way, there beliefs show nothing of there opinions of the death penalty. Besides, both owned slaves... Do you see morals here?

Oh, also, to the last post, can you site your sources, please?
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Old 06-1-2008, 10:08 PM   #139
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by rzr View Post
Some of the most recent posts in this thread don't make sense. First off, generally Thomas Jefferson and John Locke shared one philosophy, we all know it commonly in the American constitution. All people (really just white, property owning males) are born with the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Actually, that's Jefferson's version. Locke followed a similar belief: Life, liberty, and property. Either way, there beliefs show nothing of there opinions of the death penalty. Besides, both owned slaves... Do you see morals here?

Oh, also, to the last post, can you site your sources, please?
Bush remarks, 'Bush Defends Executions', CBSNews.com, 26 May 2000.

Napoleon Beazley's last statement, Texas Department of Criminal Justice, http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/bea...poleonlast.htm

'Napoleon's Last Stand', Texas Monthly magazine, July 2002.

Amnesty International, 'Facts and Figures on the Death Penalty', web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty_facts_eng

web.amnesty.org/library/print/engamr510032002


Totally off topic, here's the best last words from death row inmates, with sources:

Yes sir, I charge the people of the jury. Trial Judge, the Prosecutor that cheated to get this conviction. I charge each and every one of you with the murder of an innocent man. All the way to the CCA, Federal Court, 5th Circuit and Supreme Court. You will answer to your Maker when God has found out that you executed an innocent man. May God have mercy on you.

My love to my son, my daughter, Nancy, Kathy, Randy, and my future grandchildren. I ask for forgiveness for all of the poison that I brought into the US, the country I love. Please forgive me for my sins. If my murder makes it easier for everyone else let the forgiveness please be a part of the healing. Go ahead Warden, murder me. Jesus take me home. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/pippenroylast.htm

Yes I do. I would like to say to my two brother-in-laws and the rest of my family that I would like to thank you for supporting me through all of this. I went home to be with my Father and I went home as a trooper. I would like to say to Damien's family I did not murder your son. I did not do it. I just want you to know that -- I did not murder Damien and would ask for all of your forgiveness and I will see all of you soon. I love you guys. I love you guys. That's it. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/wyattwilliamlast.htm

Yeah. Momma, I just want you to know I love you. I want all of you to know I love you all. I am at peace; we know what it is. We know the truth. Stay out of crime; there is no point in it. I am at peace. We know the truth and I know it. I have some peace. I am glad it didn't take that long - no 10 or 20 years. I am at peace. And I want everyone to know I did not walk to this because this is straight up murder. I just want everybody to know I didn't walk to this. The reason is because it's murder. I am not going to play a part in my own murder. No one should have to do that. I love you all. I do not know all of your names. And I don't know how you feel about me. And whether you believe it or not, I did not kill them. I just want you all to have peace; you know what I'm saying. There is no point in that. It is neither here nor there. You have to move past it. It is time to move on. You know what I'm saying. I want each one of my loved ones to move on. I am glad it didn't last long. I am glad it didn't last long. I am at peace. I am at peace to the fullest. The people that did this - they know. I am not here to point fingers. God will let them know. If this is what it takes, just do what you got to do to get past it. What it takes. I am ready, Warden. Love you all. Let my son know I love him. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/reeselamontlast.htm

May I speak to my family? Honey, I love you. Be strong and take care of yourselves. Thanks for being there. Take care of yourself. Ms. Irene, thank you for everything you have done. Chaplain Hart, thank you for helping me. Gary, thank you. Maria, Maria, I love you baby. Thank you for being there for me and all these people here will find the one who did this damn crime. I am going home to be with God. Thank you. Thank you, Warden. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/wilsonjackielast.htm

Yes I do. I would like to address you first. I did not kill your loved one, but I hope that one day you find out who did. I wish I could tell you the reason why, or give some kind of solace; you lost someone you love very much. The same as my family and friends are going to lose in a few minutes. I am sure he died unjustly, just like I am. I did not murder him; I did not have anything to do with his death. And to you my family and friends, I love you dearly. Even though I die, that love for you will never die. Into Your hands, Lord, I commit my spirit. Thank you. Thank you all. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/ramirezluislast.htm

Yes sir. Sorry that I have to put my family through this. All of you know I got my peace. And I hope you find peace. And to the family, the truth will come out and I hope you find peace. I got my peace. I hope everybody has their peace. I am tired. I am going to be in your heart. I love you all. To everybody else, the truth will be known. It didn't come out in time to save my life. It is wrong to put the families through this. But when it comes out, I hope it stops this. It is wrong for the prosecutors to lie and make witnesses say what they need them to say. The truth has always been there. I just hope everybody has their peace. Today I get mine. I love you all. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/fuentesanthonylast.htm
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St1cky only proves that he has no life and that his parents are alcoholics. They probably abused him with rubber duckies when he was a baby. Why else would you exploit scores on FFR?

Last edited by Coolgamer; 06-1-2008 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 06-9-2008, 09:09 AM   #140
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Default Re: The Death Penalty

In speak of emotions, that are commonly involved in the decision of the death penalty, we use this penalty to avoid the life sentence, which even though seems more logical because its revesable, is, by most people, considered worse than the death penalty. in the minds of most people, those who are kept under the life sentence, can be set free if they are proven innocent, but those that are executed might actually be innocent and are already killed which affects how much people begin to question the law
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