Japanese

[Dimitri13]

Originally Posted by SethSquall

Oh yea didn't think of it like that.

So would you say, "Anata no otousan"? As in your father?

Also,　ちちはほんをよんでいます

Is that right?

1. Yes

2. If you were trying to say that your(SethSquall's) father is reading a book right now, then yes.

[SethSquall]

Awesomeness.

Yea I was hoping to see a thread like this. I know there are a few people who can speak the language and as I'm learning you guys would be a huge help to my study. Cheers.

[sarahxjane]

Oh, neat.
Thank you for making this.
:]

[verra]

Cool thread...although I think you might have a couple things wrong grammer wise, but other than that neat! I'm kinda learning Japanese now (on my own time...cause I can), and I recognize some of the things you put down.

[UnkownMan]

しふ

[MixMasterLar]

I kinda knew some of the englished-tized Japnese phrases already (Sayanora)...scary.

I would love to learn Japanese but I really dont have the time lol. Besides I need to get my German in shape

[omgitznpv]

Good start. Few suggestions. By the way, I just skimmed through the OP and read a few of the early posts.

In your hiragana table, you should include the sounds soon; the muddied and the /yo/yu/ya whatever sounds. Also include Katakana and all the various extra sounds, too.

When you start your lessons, I think it'd be best off to include kanji in them, because well, they're important.

I don't recommend teaching basic phrases first; it's not efficient and people won't tend to understand how they work.

[QuadDamage]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Also you romanize weird rofl who cares about useless U in romaji I dont think ive ever met anyone that would have a problem with "arigato" before

Are you kidding me? My romanization is perfect -- If you're going to romanize, you should do it consistently. If you write something as "kyo" that is a completely different pronounciation than "kyou" or "kyoo". The way I do it is technically the CORRECT way to do it. The extra "u" sound is necessary because, well, it's essential. It's a good way to get your mind working in Japanese and it's essential for pronunciation. I'm as white as they come, but if you heard me on a phone speaking Japanese, you'd have no idea. A lot of people would have a problem with "arigato" because it's incorrect and lazy romanization, and if you start spelling things that way, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to learn a language if you're leaving out relevant things.

omgitznpv: Completely disagree -- when learning a new language, simple phrases are important because it gets your mind trying to wrap itself around the sentence structure of the language. If you learn a system but don't put it to use in a relevant way, your learning speed is decreased by a wide margin. The more associations you generate, the better, especially the more relevant they are.

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by QuadDamage

Are you kidding me? My romanization is perfect -- If you're going to romanize, you should do it consistently. If you write something as "kyo" that is a completely different pronounciation than "kyou" or "kyoo". The way I do it is technically the CORRECT way to do it. The extra "u" sound is necessary because, well, it's essential. It's a good way to get your mind working in Japanese and it's essential for pronunciation. I'm as white as they come, but if you heard me on a phone speaking Japanese, you'd have no idea. A lot of people would have a problem with "arigato" because it's incorrect and lazy romanization, and if you start spelling things that way, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to learn a language if you're leaving out relevant things.

100% true.

Originally Posted by QuadDamage

omgitznpv: Completely disagree -- when learning a new language, simple phrases are important because it gets your mind trying to wrap itself around the sentence structure of the language. If you learn a system but don't put it to use in a relevant way, your learning speed is decreased by a wide margin. The more associations you generate, the better, especially the more relevant they are.

Wait, rephrase please. My mind is kind of fried right now.

*EDIT*

Oh, never mind. I just looked at "simple phrases you should learn" or whatever, and assumed it was going to be like whole sentences or something, not individual words or greetings or whatever. My point, still, though was that when they learn a phrase (not something like はい), they could try to interpret the grammatical structure incorrectly, and say something else using their interpretation and completely screw it up or something. My point being that the phrases should be learned along with a grammatical understanding.

[QuadDamage]

"I don't recommend teaching basic phrases first; it's not efficient and people won't tend to understand how they work."

I disagreed with this statement. It's always good to learn basic phrases like, for example, "O namae wa nan desu ka?" because it's extremely practical and a good way to learn basic sentence structure. For instance, literally translated, this is more like "Name (topic) what (is it?)" and therefore you get a better sense for how subjects and verbs are arranged. A lot of people learning a new language tend to build structures off their native tongue if they aren't given sufficient exposure, and that sometimes leads to incorrect sentences. The sooner you get a "feel" for how sentences are arranged, the better off you'll be because with every new thing you learn, you'll automatically have some better idea as to its application and usage.

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by QuadDamage

It's always good to learn basic phrases like, for example, "O namae wa nan desu ka?" because it's extremely practical and a good way to learn basic sentence structure. For instance, literally translated, this is more like "Name (topic) what (is it?)" and therefore you get a better sense for how subjects and verbs are arranged.

My point (read edited post) was that if they simply understood just that phrase, they may not know how it works from a grammatical standpoint. Once you mention the "name (topic) what (is it?)," then I'd have to agree that it would be fine to learn the phrase; one would be able to understand the sentence structure.

Oh, and also, tip: avoid using roomaji; it can create lots of confusion (such as distinguishing between "u|nya" or "un|ya" for example).

[EnR]

Hmm, now I must learn how to swear in japanese.

TO say at teachers and stuff.

[KlingPosnot]

Im taking a Japanese class right now and I gotta say...Nihongo wa tanoshii desu. ^^

[SethSquall]

Kanojo wa denwa o shiteimasu
かのじょはでんわをしています

Kare wa hanashi o shiteimasu
かれははなしをしれいます

Lol try and guess what my last lesson was on. How things change for past, present or something in progress isn't all that confusing but I think it's a lot to remember =/

That and -te form.

[Squeek]

I always thought it was weird that your teachers or whoever told you to use copula at the end of every sentence.

It's really annoying, actually. Why the hell are you being so polite on an Internet forum? Drop the desu and the shimasu and all that already.

Also this really doesn't help much but at least it boosts your ego. The only thing you can do with hiragana is learn particles and such. Katakana will help you more, but you can't really do anything without Kanji anyway. Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

It's not even really necessary to learn much other than how to write, since you can just draw characters into an IME and you'll get a translation. Off the top of my head, I can't even write (on paper) the basic alphabets, yet I could tell what they look like on-screen. I can't speak it or understand spoken word. I can't read it without a dictionary. Yet I'm still proficient enough to know exactly what's going on in a conversation without subtitles.

[Dimitri13]

Te form is confusing for me =/

[Edit] And Squeeks, it is absolutely not necessary to learn every single combination. If you know a decent amount of Kanji and what they mean, then you can decipher pretty much most sentences.

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

Thousands of characters.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I could tell what they look like on-screen. I can't read it without a dictionary.

What?

Originally Posted by Squeek

I can't understand spoken word. I'm still proficient enough to know exactly what's going on in a conversation without subtitles.

What?

Originally Posted by SethSquall

Yea I'm going to learn all of the Kanji as well.

Good luck with that.

[SethSquall]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I always thought it was weird that your teachers or whoever told you to use copula at the end of every sentence.

It's really annoying, actually. Why the hell are you being so polite on an Internet forum? Drop the desu and the shimasu and all that already.

Problem there is that there are hundreds of characters and millions of combinations for them, so good luck learning them all~

It's just how you learn isn't it? It's best to learn how to be polite, I think all languages are taught like that. Then when you get to a certain stage you gain a higher understanding of the language you can drop stuff like that.

Yea I'm going to learn all of the Kanji as well. Imagine that. I don't care what you say hehehe.

Oh and I'd say Hiragana is just as/if not more important to learn than Katakana for me. I intend to be able to write fluently in Japanese and there will be a lot more Hiragana than Foreign words for katakana. Maybe to start of with anyway, until I get confident with using Kanji. Plus I know basic Katakana now anyway.

[Squeek]

It's just annoying. You learn it, so you learn that it's for politeness, right? It's just not appropriate for a forum setting like this. To me, "desu" puts a "sir" or "madam" at the end of your sentence. Find someone on the forums who does that.

npv: I can read hiragana, katakana, and maybe 50-100 Kanji. I just can't write them on paper. That's what I'm trying to say. I also won't be able to fully translate the sentence without consulting a few sources. Namely, a particle reference, a kanji dictionary, and a verb conjugation guide.

About the speaking comment. I can understand most things in the sentence. When words are spoken, you can't really tell which ones are kanji and which ones aren't. It's a lot easier to understand. But I still don't know a lot of words and the spoken word is far too quick to pick up everything. I can only understand basic situations. And again, while I can understand some spoken word, I cannot speak it.

And yeah in case it weren't obvious I've never had lessons because my high school didn't offer them and I've been way too busy at college to even think about personal electives. I picked up what I know from games and anime.

[nestlekwik]

These are more for brushing up on what you know already, but I have found these to be great tools in keeping your hiragana and katakana sharp:

http://www.msu.edu/~lakejess/kanjigame.html - this lets you do "flash card"-type recognition of hiragana, katakana and kanji where the character is shown and you select its romanization (or vice versa). It is browser-based and not too intensive.

http://lrnj.com/ - this is the infamous Slime Forest game. Slime Forest is an RPG you download for the PC where to attack enemies, you have to type in the romanized forms of katakana and hiragana. Fun stuff.

I suppose if you had enough will power to memorize the characters from these tools, they could actually teach you the characters, so if you are willing and can do it, more power to you.