Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

And Relambrien, there is a time and a place for this discussion, and it's right now. I'm tired of you always trying to quell debates. Debates are what forums are all about. If it gets out of hand, I'll stop it as a moderator. As it is now, I'm participating as a Smash Bros. fan.

Fine then. I'll go all-out then. And I'm not trying to quell debates. I'm trying to quell a flamefest that's been done so many times in this thread already that there's really no point in beating the flaming horse again.

Originally Posted by Squeek

The one thing that angers me more than anything else is how you REPEATEDLY flame everyone here who doesn't play casually in your subtle little ways.

And the one thing that angers me more than anything else is how YOU repeatedly flame everyone here who doesn't agree with you in your subtle little ways. In case you didn't notice, you're looking down on everyone who doesn't play your way. If you would just recognize that your way isn't the best way, then there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem as there is.

Also, I don't think that l2awr is flaming those who play casually, but those who play casually and claim that it's the best way to play, condemning competitive play because it uses "illegal" techniques. I don't care how people play, but I care when they look down on others' playstyles because they don't play the same way.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Since when was playing games for hundreds of hours "casual" gameplay? Just because I ****ing hate competition doesn't mean you can compare me to ****ing Peggle players on PopCap.

A competitive player strives to get better using any methods deemed legal, to win. Because that's what's fun for them. They love competition. A casual player is someone to whom playing itself is fun, and places winning and self-improvement at a much lower level. You said that winning all the time is boring. It wouldn't be to a competitive player, thus you are casual. I beat my brothers pretty much 99% of all matches in SSBM, and I still have fun. Lots of it, because I'm winning.

There are two overarching groups of players of any game: casual and competitive. If you hate competition, you cannot call yourself anything but casual.

Originally Posted by Squeek

There's a huge ****ing difference between putting spin on a ball during a sport and exploiting graphical hiccups that the developers didn't intend on putting in the game. When spin was introduced to sports, people noticed it. They checked if it was against the rules, and the rule-checkers said it was OK.

When wavedashing was introdcued to Melee, people noticed it. They checked if it was against the rules, and the rule-checkers said it was OK.

Originally Posted by Squeek

But, again, here's the difference. Are you going to be playing soccer in your backyard against your 5-year old brother arcing kicks past him every shot? Hell no. You're going to play normally. You save your special kicks for competition against people who are good enough to actually defend against it.

I'm not going to be playing against my 5-year old brother period, because that isn't fun. Unless I'm teaching him to play, where I will teach him to arc kicks as soon as I can.

And besides, that isn't even an accurate analogy. A better one would be like this. If you're playing in a soccer match both with and against people you don't know and have never seen before, are you going to handicap yourself? No, you're going to do everything you can.

You people who condemn so-called "advanced techniques" because they are glitches are so closed-minded about what a glitch is. You automatically think it's something bad, horrible, and illegal. Well guess what? It isn't. A glitch is merely an unintended result of game code. In the case of advanced techniques, it's a fortuitous mistake. The introduction of advanced techniques increased the depth and competitive value of Melee far beyond what it could've been otherwise, with absolutely NO game-breaking effects. There was no "Instawin" button. People had to learn advanced techniques and apply them properly to win, and the variety that exists within advanced techniques helped the game so much that it's mind-boggling. Why can't you see that? Why can't you see that glitches can be beneficial, and thus shouldn't be discarded simply because they're glitches?

You don't seem to realize that how the developers made the game isn't necessarily the best way to play. See: Half-Life 2 and Garry's Mod. And also, here's a quote from Masahiro Sakurai, head developer of SSBB:

Originally Posted by Masahiro Sakurai, translated by Nate Bihldorff

But still, it’s not like I want everyone to play through every single portion of the game. I think I’d rather you played small portions of the areas you find interesting a little at a time.

Whether you choose to go solo or play with friends, you’re covered, because Brawl is about playing the way you want to play.

Sakurai himself is endorsing competitive play. You cannot claim that the developers don't want a competitive atmosphere: they want the game to go in whatever direction the community takes it.

Now, I believe you also said that you don't want people using advanced techniques in random online play, correct? Well, why would people go online to play against RANDOM people if not to compete? If you're going to focus on just having fun, there is absolutely no better way to have fun than to play with your friends. By going online, you agree to be subject to whatever your opponents throw at you, and you have no right to claim they can't do something, so long as it isn't a game-breaking glitch or other form of cheating. Glitches which help enhance the competitive atmosphere need to be encouraged, not suppressed.

I have more to say, but I think it best if I just stop for now. I'll continue in another post later.