Questions on Track, CC, Running in general, etc.

[GamerShadow]

Well, I have quite a few questions on lowering my times in Cross Country, Indoor and Outdoor track. Because I have lofty goals for the rest of my high-school career (State Meet by the end of this year, New Englands by the end of my Junior Year, and Nationals by the end of my Senior Year), I figured I'd need help from a source other than my coaches and teammates. I know quite a few of you run or have run in the past, so I know this is a legit place to post this.

Right now, I am a Sophomore in high school. I am a year round runner, and I mainly run the 800m, the 1000m, and the 5k (Cross Country). From freshman year, I have a 2:19 in the 800. From last Saturday, I have a 3:08.1 in the 1000, and my 5k from this year's XC season is 17:55 (I have a 17:46 at a course many people doubted to be 3.1 miles exactly.)

My question is this. How am I doing, and what would you suggest I do to lower my time? (No steroids, obviously.)

Thank you very much. =)

[customstuff]

Try putting weights on your ankles and run for a while then when you take them off you will feel lighter and faster...I don'y really know...it might help. I don't run very much but I'm good at it.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by customstuff

Try putting weights on your ankles and run for a while then when you take them off you will feel lighter and faster...I don'y really know...it might help. I don't run very much but I'm good at it.

that will most likely only hurt his ankles with the weights bouncing on them.

Since you're a XC runner, I would suggest running more short distance, hard workouts instead of long endurance workouts.

A kid on my team went from barely under 19 to sub 17 going from his sophomore year to junior year by doing this.

[GamerShadow]

Originally Posted by pntballa18

that will most likely only hurt his ankles with the weights bouncing on them.

Since you're a XC runner, I would suggest running more short distance, hard workouts instead of long endurance workouts.

A kid on my team went from barely under 19 to sub 17 going from his sophomore year to junior year by doing this.

The thing about that is this. Cross country does not go all year. It starts June 26 this year, and ends mid-late October, or even November, if the team makes it to regionals, New Englands, etc. Then there is about 2-3 weeks between that and Indoor Track. Indoor Track comes and passes, and 2-3 weeks of rest. Then Outdoor.

So I do not have the endurance I had when I was running cross country. But shorter, faster workouts is not a bad idea once I build up my base again.

Also: weights = big risk of injury. That's the last thing I want. One injury and I'm done.

[YoshiSlayer]

hey i have a lot of good advice for you!
i run xc in college and our team makes it to nationals almost every year.
i know a lot about the sport and about track and running in general.

it would be better if you talked to me on AIM instant messenger rather than here because people here will disagree with anything anyone says.

and not to brag but ive met and talked with Adam Goucher and Coach Wetmore (the coach of the Boulder, Colorado xc team, there is a book about them "Running with the Buffaloes", and he was and still is the coach when that book was writen) so all in all come talk to me if you still need help, i can be as specific as you want.

xchielz
^AIM screen name

[Bre.x]

If you have something like a beach near you.. Run on that.. It makes you work harder and builds endurance.. (I think...)

[GamerShadow]

Originally Posted by Bre.x

If you have something like a beach near you.. Run on that.. It makes you work harder and builds endurance.. (I think...)

Sand does create a more challenging workout, as it absorbs much of the force you put into the ground as you take a step.

YoshiSlayer: I would like to hear some of the things you know in a post, as I can't get on AIM right now. If somebody disagrees with what you say, ignore them unless they give a good point and reason to back it up.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by GamerShadow

The thing about that is this. Cross country does not go all year. It starts June 26 this year, and ends mid-late October, or even November, if the team makes it to regionals, New Englands, etc. Then there is about 2-3 weeks between that and Indoor Track. Indoor Track comes and passes, and 2-3 weeks of rest. Then Outdoor.

So I do not have the endurance I had when I was running cross country. But shorter, faster workouts is not a bad idea once I build up my base again.

Also: weights = big risk of injury. That's the last thing I want. One injury and I'm done.

You run New Englands? What school are you?

[YoshiSlayer]

Honestly, i think you are doing a great job so far.

but for me to help you i need to know your fastest mile time, your 5k but you gave that already, maybe your 2 mile time, and what i really need to know is your base miles. like how many miles you run per week.

once i know that i can give you a crap load of info on what to do and what not to do and how to do it

[GamerShadow]

Originally Posted by pntballa18

You run New Englands? What school are you?

East Greenwich High School, which is in RI.

Yoshi: 1500m time is 5:03, so add about 20 seconds (1 mile is ~1608 meters), and you get 5:23. I have never ran the two-mile, but I remember getting an 11:30 or so in one of my XC races at the two-mile mark.

And the mileage I run has been really inconsistent for me, because I started doing the Varsity workouts two weeks before the school year began, and after that, there were meets. So I have no idea.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by GamerShadow

East Greenwich High School, which is in RI.

Beat us. Pinkerton Academy, in NH

EDIT: just rechecked the stats, apparently you beat everyone except for the number one in the country

[ledwix]

your times sound very good for any age. what's your 1600?

[GamerShadow]

We run the 1500 here, but adding 20 seconds to my 1500 time, it'd be 5:23.

[YoshiSlayer]

thats a decent time for the 1600...5:23...i need one more thing, how many miles do you run a week? then i can help you get better

[pntballa18]

Yeah, it looks like it is your speed that needs work, not your endurance. I can run about that 1600 time, and my 5k pr is 18:29

[GamerShadow]

Originally Posted by YoshiSlayer

thats a decent time for the 1600...5:23...i need one more thing, how many miles do you run a week? then i can help you get better

Like I said, I have no perfect idea, and the mileage changes from season to season. Our normal XC workout during duel-meet season was 7 miles, and we always had 3 days of speed a week (that means hills, speed workouts, or meets.)

In track, however, our coaches are not specialized in distance, so we run about 5 miles on a normal workout. I don't have a very good idea of what else we do, as I was a sprinter last year. (Coach decided I was a sprinter until I busted out a 2:30 800m the first outdoor meet of my freshman year.)

[YoshiSlayer]

ok, im guessing your V team only does about 30-35 miles at the most...atleast thats what the highschool runners do here for their V team.

well there are a lot of things you might need to improve...ones that i cant see, i.e. your running form, how you move your arms, how you hold your hands, where you keep your head, ect...but i cant help you there because ive never seen you run b4

but anyway, your speed is...ok....same thing with your endurance

how to improve your speed:

first you are going to have decent base mileage, 25-30 miles a week is fine for you.

1.) Short intervals let you train at a higher intensity, but if you're new to speedwork, start with 800 repeats. im guessing you arent new to speedwork but if you are doing the 800's will stop you from running shorter intervals too fast and from overtraining. They also build up lactic acid slowly, which trains you to run with it, instead of making you too tired to move on.

2.) 200 repeats, try and do these at an all out sprint and try and limit your rest to 45 secs, make it 75 secs if you really need to. but these are supposed to be over quick, doing this will increase your leg turnover allowing you to "kick" or put in a "surge" at many points in the race. and since you will be ready for these thanks to the 800's you wont get as tired because you will know how to run with the alctic acid in your legs.

3.) you can also do 150-200 meter sprints uphill, this does the same thing as "2.)" but it adds the hill element to it because almost all xc races have hills in them. doing these will train you to not over power up a hill but to allow you to stay strong and steady when confronted with a hill.

4.) the last thing is another hill workout, instead of going up fast, go up slow for the recovery...and then on the down hill let gravity take you down and lengthen your stride...you will go down the hill fast that way (im sure you know this though) but once you are down the hill donw back down from that pace too much, try and keep that momentum going...it will help in the long run.


how to improve endurance:

endurance starts a long time before the actuall season starts.

1.) just run. dont do anything fancy, just run. start out with small mile runs...say 5 miles on a short day and then add in a long day once a week...say 8-10 miles. and do not run the long day fast...its meant to seem easy when in all reality it is helping you.

2.) once you get your base mileage up then you can start getting faster while still improving your endurance. do some tempo runs. we do this thing called "out and back" run...say about 25 mins out, and then turn around and make it back in 20 mins. or a 20 out and 15 back. or a 30 out and 25 back. you get the picutre. the thing is is that the time running out isnt supposed to be easy...run that the way you would normally run on a distance run day. and then when you come back pick up the pace quite a bit. the run back is supposed to be difficult. expect it to be almost as hard as a well ran race.

3.) add some pick ups during your long runs. it will help strengthen your body and lungs because it forces you to deal with being tired from the start instead of at the end of a run. this is another thing that we do "stride the gaps" run at a normal distance run pace for one block (one street sign to the next) and then on the next street sign pick up the pace considerably but not a sprint and keep that pace until you reach the next street sign. you dont have to do it that often if you dont want to, in that case do 2 blocks easy then 2 fast, and keep that going till your run is over.

its not going to be easy but it works. my teams uses all this stuff and then some more and i think it shows, we have made it to nationals almost every single year since i can remember


if you need any more explination then just ask. but this should all help you get better.

goodluck with your season!

[YoshiSlayer]

here are some of my times using everything i just told you

these are my most recent times:

800m: 2:04
1600m: 4:47
5000m: 17:14
8000m: 28:07
10000: running one in about 3 weeks

[GamerShadow]

I am told that my form is crap. I don't make the mistake of moving my arms across my body instead of forward and backward, but I'm pretty sure everything else is pretty bad.

Hmm... 2:04 for an 800m. Are you in college? Or Senior year of HS?

Our provisional state req for the 800m here is 2:08, and our guaranteed entry into states is 2:01. That's where I want to be, but 18 seconds is a lot for me to work toward in two seasons. (My goal is state meet by end of this school year.)

[Lightknight924]

YoshiSlayer, what state are you from? I run XC, Indoor, and Outdoor Track all year as well. I'm from Lansingburgh in Section II, New York.

These are my times from this year, I'm a Sophmore(anything not 5k is from Freshman year):

5k= 18:35.7(Sectionals)(I think the best on my team was 16:32 or something like that, the kid made it to states and our team took 2nd for our class(Class B) in Sectionals)

400= 60.09
600= 1:42.05
800= 2:21.09
1600= 5:27.09

Yoshi, your workouts are very similar to my team's workouts.