05-23-2007, 11:12 PM | #421 | ||||||
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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Oh relly. How coem. =? Quote:
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Sorry if I don't base most of my arguments off of facts and links to articles of import; I'm more of a logos debater than a knowledge debater.* Logic is one of my specialties, though plenty of knowledge is there, as well. I'm just exhausted from too much staying up into the wee hours of the morning attempting to finish school projects. Quote:
* +1 if you know what logos is.
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05-23-2007, 11:27 PM | #422 |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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05-23-2007, 11:44 PM | #423 |
Little Chief Hare
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
"ooh look, twins! One gay, one straight! That must mean behavioral causes rather than biological". Yeah, no. While it is true that twins more often share cognitive, genetic, and biological traits even in "identical" twins there are no traits shared perfectly. This holds in Psychology and Biology. "suggestive"? Not even close. Similarly a lot of other studies shown have no implications whatsoever. Rats respond to hormone treatment in utero? That's nice, Rats also have faster development cycles. Human beings cognitive development is drastically different from that of a Rat. People can pick out Homosexuals from videos of their motions? The supposed implication is that there is "feminization" of the part of the brain responsible for motion. Well, despite this being fairly comparable to a centuries old Jungian psychological concept, this doesn't actually give us any important data. Even if we were to accept this assumption, it hardly answers the question of whether homosexuality is an acquired or ascribed state of being. No, that page is mostly a regurgitation of the same fuss that's been going around on the subject since it first entered academia. It's good to know about, but not new, nor helpful.
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05-23-2007, 11:56 PM | #424 |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
Sorry if I'm going off on a tangent here but I was thinking a lot about the whole "is gay a choice or a genetic thing or what lawl?" thing. I think that it has a lot to do with environment. I'm not saying 100%, but it does play a very big role.
When I was a kid, I was always closer with my mom and I was somewhat "anti-social" in elementary school during Kindergarten. I remember I was always around my sister's friends and they always considered me as part of the 'girls" so I naturally thought it was ok. I've talked to a lot of my gay friends and they also say that they've been closer to their mothers and also surrounded by girls at a young age. Also, many of them have been abused at some point or another. I think this explains the large Filipino homosexual population, because Filipino parents are known to be very abusive to their children. I'm just going out on a limb here. It was on my mind so I just decided to type something up. Nothing very logical or "critical thinking'ish" but it gets my ideas across. O_o
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05-24-2007, 12:12 AM | #425 |
Little Chief Hare
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
That's a reasonably common perspective. It was actually fairly prevalent in mainstream psychology until a couple decades ago. The Psychoanalytic method typically addresses homosexually in that or similar ways.
Problems: correlation does not imply causation. Even if we accept the validity of your observations, the interpretation you've provided explains things as if they could only come from one side. It's entirely possible homosexuals are abused frequently because people have an instinctive tendency to abuse them, that the inherent biological traits associated with homosexuality lead to closer bonding with females than males, and that perceived anti-social behavior occurs as a result of cognitive dyshoria associated with specifically homosexual biological functions of thought. Just because everything stacks up a certain way doesn't mean you're looking at it right side up. Remember, society is a function of biology. |
05-24-2007, 12:41 AM | #426 | |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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05-24-2007, 02:23 AM | #427 | |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
I like to think I'm more of the not-one-bit-flamboyant gays... it came as a surprise when I told my friends. I watched those videos and maybe some of it's true. Some things maybe I don't agree with, but like Kilroy said, it's all stuff we already knew, or a whole load of crap that people come up with to I dunno, pretend they're proving a point. For instance, yes you can sometimes tell gays from the way they move and speak, and yes some gays you can't tell at all (like me)... but rats? And twins? Big brothers? What on earth have you been smoking?!
In response to cjk's comment... Well, I've lived most my life with my dad, my closest friends are both guys and girls (4 guys, 2 girls if you're wondering), and I've never been abused (thank god). Maybe for some it is the environment. I can tell you that I wasn't 'officially' gay until grade 7. I had a girlfriend (ahaha young love...) for two or three years and I'd gotten with a couple of girls before grade 7. I changed schools at year 7 and realised I was attracted to guys, wasn't that big a deal to me. I suppose environment COULD be a factor... but I don't understand how it affected me so much that it turned me gay. Genetics have shown that there have been no gays in my family before me (unless they were all closeted... unlikely). Is it maybe safe to assume that someone is gay... just because? In my humble opinion, I don't care what makes me gay, but hearing some of the stuff that these 'scienticians' (lol simpsons) come up with is good for a laugh every now and then. Quote:
Anyways, these are my insights, and coming from a gay guy himself, maybe it might explain something... if anything... or disprove stuff. Take it as you will. Jono
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05-24-2007, 10:42 AM | #428 | ||||||
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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Professional Dubstep Hater Last edited by Omeganitros : Today at 01:46 AM. Reason: What the hell were you thinking? Last edited by Kamunt; 05-24-2007 at 09:39 PM.. Reason: I'm an ass. |
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05-24-2007, 12:14 PM | #429 |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
Any of your ancestors beyond your parents' generation would probably not have openly admitted their homosexuality. It is actually likely that, if you had gay ancestors, they did not admit it and lived out their lives like normal heterosexuals, but with a terrible secret.
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05-24-2007, 02:33 PM | #430 | ||||
Little Chief Hare
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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So, sexuality can conceivably be something learned or something ingrained fundamentally in a human being. In both cases it remains a biological function. However, given that traits passed on reproductively are done so with much greater efficiency than traits communicated between human beings, and that traits gained by communication between human beings are rarely as powerful as traits ingrained reproductively in human life (and also in all life, something else which is suggestive), such as the desire to eat, to sleep, to- dare I say; reproduce... The fact that reproduction doesn't occur hardly speaks against the possibility of the ingrained nature of sexual desire, it just suggests that even powerful, fundamental and ingrained biological processes can sometimes manifest in atypical ways. Last edited by Kilroy_x; 05-24-2007 at 02:37 PM.. |
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05-24-2007, 02:58 PM | #431 | ||
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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05-24-2007, 03:22 PM | #432 | |
Quite electrifying.
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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Honestly, I would follow just about none of the stereotypes. I don't have a lisp, I don't move differently, I was never close to my mother and the majority of the people I hung around and still hang around are guys. As a child, I wasn't exactly 'feminine' as I was just frail. I did get abused, but then again, I got abused because my parents thought I was a waste of flesh. =\ |
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05-24-2007, 06:19 PM | #433 | ||||
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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Like....just because you have something in your biology that could be largely in part responsible for making you homo- or bisexual, that doesn't mean that that's the only reason why--studies have been performed which have shown that atypical sexualities are in your DNA and others have shown that they aren't in your DNA. It's all more or less inconclusive, I think, but it's logically impossible to completely agree with either side of the debate and be 100% sure of your stance because we still don't know for sure what the exact causes for each sexuality are. Yes, DNA is assuredly part of it, but it can't be and, as far as I can tell, isn't the sole factor in determining sexuality. Quote:
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05-24-2007, 06:40 PM | #434 |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
Ok... I understand that what people say have something to do with homosexuality, but why does it matter how or why a person is homosexual? The main issue is whether or not homosexual marriages should be allowed. Genetics or reasons for a homosexual existing as the homosexual he/she is, does not really have much to do with what people argue are their rights.
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05-24-2007, 06:50 PM | #435 |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
Well, we long since exhausted that discussion you see. There was no compelling reason at all for people who weren't biased by relgious beliefs to deny homosexuals the right to -legal- marriage, and even the most ardent liberal acknowledged that there was no basis for forcing religions to allow -religious- marriage if it was against the tenets of their faith.
The crux of that debate spun off into the Church vs State thread, and people just kinda kept riffing on various homosexuality topics, and here we are. |
05-24-2007, 07:14 PM | #436 | |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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I posted that link to remind some of the posters in here to at least attempt to conform to a somewhat higher intellectual standard, since I don't have to read this discussion to know that that's not what's going on here. I mean, this is the FlashFlashRevolution website. Why this subforum even exists (in a non-invite-only format) is beyond me. I do appreciate your bolding of the relevant parts of the article. They were precisely my point.
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05-24-2007, 07:24 PM | #437 | ||||||
Little Chief Hare
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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05-24-2007, 10:54 PM | #438 | |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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They weren't implying anything at all to you.
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05-25-2007, 08:50 AM | #439 | |
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
My apologies. It's easy to get caught up in the moment!
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It's funny, I was watching Boston Legal the other night, and there was a case involving a judge sueing a religious-based... franchise I suppose you could call it. This group aimed at targetting homosexuals into renouncing their 'gay faith' for what Christianity belived to be morally and socially correct. This judge sued this company because they failed to 'de-homosexualise' (for lack of a better term) him. Of course, he won the case on the grounds that there wasn't much of a case to be had anyway! They said things along the lines of, "In 50% of cases we convince homosexuals that they're not actually gay" and in support of this, they showed a few guys who had been healed. What was funny/wrong about it though was that there was this completely flamboyant, undoubtedly gay man who was on the witness stand, renouncing his gay faith. He said something like, "Oh no, it's like so wrong, just thinking about two guys makes me sick, like totally" with the lisp and all. I found it amusing. Also, David Spader is a great actor lol
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05-25-2007, 09:06 AM | #440 | ||
Little Chief Hare
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Re: Homosexual Marriage
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