FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

Well, FFR USED to be on Kong, hosted by Tass. It was a separate build, with only like 8 songs, no speedmods, no score recording, and plastered all over it was "For more features, flashflashrevolution.com." It was taken down years ago, though.

I don't know if it helped with exposure. I'd assume it did, at least to some extent.

[gold stinger]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

Third, the suggestions that I have made would not be donating to the actual user's out of pocket expenses. It wouldn't be "for profit". It would be "for the website", or "for the engine", which are both independent of any music relations.

That's not how permission clauses work

If the website is making a clear profit from donations it's technically for profit.

This is how streamers on twitch make money they get donations it's for profit

This is how people playing music in the subways make money they get donations it's for profit

This is how people beg on the streets for people to give them money they get donations they do it for a profit

People that work on FFR can try to sidestep the matter, but it doesn't stop the scary reality that it might cross a label permission or other permission and they want a profit of it and will sue over it or pull their content from the game over it.

[Xenorosth]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

If the website is making a clear profit from donations it's technically for profit.

Damn straight they do. Because guess what. We aren't profiting. We're using it to buy other technologies to upgrade the forum boards. Upgrading costs. Staying in the times costs. The website is dated as fuck dude. WE aren't going to profit at all. FFR already causes us to be in the HOLE.

[gold stinger]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

Well someone has to have the email.

Also prepare to get blasted but I am 99.9% sure that absolutely no one besides Synthlight has access to that e-mail because I remember addressing it awhile ago and that's what I was told.

[Xenorosth]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

Anyway, off to work. Will reply after. Or during.

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

well just be glad the ffr new user experience isn't as bad as stepmanias

[rushyrulz]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

It is damned clear that this place ain't as active as it used to be. With easy tokens having 10,000, 20,000, even 190,000 gets, it's damned clear that this site has not grown. I can understand why people are leaving.

I read the first point of the OP and chose not to read the rest yet. You're claiming that high token gets vs. currently active members necessarily shows that people are leaving and the site is not growing.

We are getting monthly engine updates and site changes. I think that the userbase is actually growing, albeit slowly (I don't have the actual numbers, but I've noticed a bit more activity here than in '09 / '10). The reason, and I know you know it too, is that the site went down for nearly a year which caused the bulk of people who weren't absolutely die-hard about this game to fly the coup.

I would attribute the stagnant userbase to lack of advertising and perhaps a bit on not being new user friendly, on the game side and the community side (which I'll assume the rest of your thread addresses).

I also think it's kinda funny that you base all this crap on tokens when you could just as easily check levelranks and find Trip to the Moon at rank 224K.

[Xenorosth]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

I read the first point of the OP and chose not to read the rest yet. You're claiming that high token gets vs. currently active members necessarily shows that people are leaving and the site is not growing.

We are getting monthly engine updates and site changes. I think that the userbase is actually growing, albeit slowly (I don't have the actual numbers, but I've noticed a bit more activity here than in '09 / '10). The reason, and I know you know it too, is that the site went down for nearly a year which caused the bulk of people who weren't absolutely die-hard about this game to fly the coup.

I would attribute the stagnant userbase to lack of advertising and perhaps a bit on not being new user friendly, on the game side and the community side (which I'll assume the rest of your thread addresses).

I also think it's kinda funny that you base all this crap on tokens when you could just as easily check levelranks and find Trip to the Moon at rank 224K.

Why bother posting without reading the rest? Seriously on of my points was that we need to advertise. Trust me, I was here BEFORE 2009, and the user numbers were significantly higher before hand. And the tokens is just one indication. There are plenty of others, such as the fact that the majority of the active user base are vets. New people aren't sticking.

You've missed the point of the entire thread.

[YoshL]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas



any validity that you wanted to bring to your point has been thrown out the window.

[Xenorosth]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

any validity that you wanted to bring to your point has been thrown out the window.

If you actually read the content, maybe you'd realize that all of the head lines are intentionally a joke. You're not even criticizing the content of my post, you're criticizing the formatting. Which was supposed to be moderately amusing anyway.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

If you actually read the content, maybe you'd realize that all of the head lines are intentionally a joke. You're not even criticizing the content of my post, you're criticizing the formatting. Which was supposed to be moderately amusing anyway.

> makes serious post with intent of formality
> uses joke headlines

bad start...

[rushyrulz]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

And now for the piece-by-piece breakdown.

The organization is bad, and it only takes simple fixes. I don't know if the staff have access to make new web pages, but these wouldn't be hard at all to make. I, someone who only knows the bare minimum, could probably figure out how to make most of these changes onto the website, because I'm aware that it is not easy to make massive overhauls. It's hard to simply "revamp" a site out of no where.

Of course the admins have access to make new web pages. If you have suggestions for simple fixes, simply reach out to a dev (red triangle guys) and if it's a simple fix, it will usually get taken care of before the next monthly update, time-permitting.

The site has switched administrations a couple times in recent past, but I really like the way it's going now. I have been able to suggest ideas and the good ones have been implemented. Please do not insult our developers with statements like "I, someone who only knows the bare minimum, could probably figure out how to [do it]." Simply list out what changes you would like to see made (and it looks like you've done some of that here in this thread) and bring it to the attention of a dev and it can be discussed with the team.

So. Immediately, for a new person, this may be THE most damning thing. When I first show them www.flashflashrevolution.com the two people I used as testers did this: Play FFR-> Song List. Then they clicked the song and went. "What?" The drop down is confusing. One of them eventually figured out that you have to actually click "Play FFR" instead of look through the drop down. When I pointed it out, the person said "That's stupid. There should be a big button that simply says "Play FFR" nice and big."

I agree 100%.

Conveniently, I thought of a place HERE (Hyperlinked because big picture).

Probably not there, though :P

So HERE (again large picture) is the automated message that Prawnskunk puts out that immediately on account make. Now, there is good news and bad news. These messages were found right away. The bad news is that there is little to no actual information on the website in these automatic messages. When I showed my profile, one person knew what a FC was, the other didn't. Neither knew what the tier points or AAA bar was. They wouldn't know what a SDG, or anything. This dictionary here is a start. But this needs to get to new users. How? Why not through the automated message?

I don't think we want to overload our users with "here go read these 17,000 stickies so you know what's going on in the game." While I think you're right on the point that it may be difficult users to access the game verbage information, the questions your friends proposed are expected from new players. Nobody is going to play a new game and immediately know the common language all the veterans used.

As far as not knowing what AAAs/Tier Points/FCs are, I'm not sure that a brand new player needs to know what these are right off the bat. It's only after you have experienced the game a bit that you strive for such goals, and if you encounter the green "FC" text and don't what it means, the resources are certainly available to find that information.

P.S. The Official Picture Dictionary is comprehensive, not just "a start". The thread could use a bit of an overhaul though thanks for reminding me.

Here are some other things that could and probably should be introduced, since all we touch are forums in this intro post.

• Skill Tokens
• Normal Tokens (soon to be revamped I hope!)
• FFR Events Forum
• Tier Points
• Leaderboards

FFR Events Forum - No
Tier Points - No
Leaderboards - Yes
Tokens/Skill Tokens - Probably

We were actually thinking about implementing a Level 0 tutorial song in Dance that is a rundown of how the game works with an introduction to tokens by being awarded one upon completion. That project has been put on the back burner, but is definitely something I would like to see implemented in the sooner-rather-than-later future.

The two people didn't even know tokens were a thing until I mentioned them. That is horrid. Token achievements is the one thing that drew me over to here from stepmania. It gave the sense of game progression, something that many other popular games lack. It was the SELLING point.

Honestly, you're a bit obsessed. I consider myself a token fanatic, but you are about 3 notches above me here...

These take up the most part of a profile.

Not on the newer profile layout.

If you have all of them people, especially the new ones, think you're a fuckin' boss. That is the gold chain in the mudda fuckin' hood yo.

You are well into D7 at this point.

The organization of the tokens right now suck. It is ass. Ass. So much ass.

Again, I agree.

Then I explained that there are even "token chains", so certain tokens they couldn't even start on until they beat that song.

There is only one major token chain with a first requirement being to get reasonably good PA on a tricky song (8-bit Day Dreamer), and then the others (nanairopanda and p4u I believe are the only ones) are even more difficult to get off the ground. I definitely think that there needs to be some organization on the skill tokens page, and it's another thing we're thinking about looking at after the normal token rehaul.

As there is a massive "achievement whoring" community in gaming, I think that these should have a bit more ease of use attached. Solutions? Make a few subcategories of tokens. Show are these tokens in chains? How hard are they? How many people have done it?

Yeah, pretty much.

Perhaps even sort out the PA accuracy ones from the anti PA ones.

This is definitely happening.

A lot of people left. A lot. Some were duplicate accounts, some weren't. But how many people came back after the crash? How many even remember this place? Well, it's time to remind them. I suggest sending an email to every account on FFR to acknowledge that this place still exists. I don't know how hard that will be, but simply put, I think even if it's a 0.01% return of users, that still will double community size.

nnooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Since the game was down, Kongregate has taken their version off. I suggest the staff, or someone, put the new R^3 engine.

There are several reasons we don't want to host the full game on another site. This is why the widgets were created in the first place, and that is ultimately what got added to Kongregate. The linkage to these widgets are now broken and they used an older engine anyway. It was a bit of a failed project, to be honest since a lot of features were missing on these widgets.

Make a donation button. It's as simple as that. This place gains no funds. It's non profit. Not only is it non profit. It's debt inducing. You'd be surprised that if there was a simple small donation area that you guys could get funding for some of the real upgrades. We all know that this site needs updates. Badly. So let us, the community, make our community better, or even just lessen the burden on the great people who make the site. Make a terms of agreement when they donate, and it is as simple as that.

We have donation drives when we need funds for tournaments, but FFR's staff is completely volunteer-based, and we're happy to do it for free since it is the site that we have grown up with. The typical development costs needed to develop new features simply isn't present here. Our staff does not get paid, so we honestly wouldn't know what to do with donations we receive other than to give them back to the community through official events.

EDIT: and our server costs are paid for by Synthlight who gets to use them for free I believe.

[Xenorosth]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

> makes serious post with intent of formality
> uses joke headlines

bad start...

*Facepalm* It's supposed to be what a new user/raging user would say. Sheesh. And ironically, that's print screened part was the only one that was ACTUALLY said by the user when I was over skype with him.

It's a fucking forum. I don't need to make my points like I'm sending it to a university professor.

[rushyrulz]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

Why bother posting without reading the rest? Seriously on of my points was that we need to advertise. Trust me, I was here BEFORE 2009, and the user numbers were significantly higher before hand. And the tokens is just one indication. There are plenty of others, such as the fact that the majority of the active user base are vets. New people aren't sticking.

You've missed the point of the entire thread.

dude stfu I said I hadn't read it yet, holy cow.

I wanted to address your first paragraph before I delved into the rest of the post.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR: The New User Perspective And New FFR Ideas

*Facepalm* It's supposed to be what a new user/raging user would say. Sheesh. And ironically, that's print screened part was the only one that was ACTUALLY said by the user when I was over skype with him.

It's a fucking forum. I don't need to make my points like I'm sending it to a university professor.

EDIT: never mind, removed all of that

if you're going to propose something, expect criticism - if you can't, don't suggest it unless it's polished enough to where it's reasonably difficult to do so

EDIT #2: actually i'll bring this part of the post back too: it feels like to me that you don't even care about the rest of things and this all just seems like a push to add your token designs, sorry but not sorry