Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

[rushyrulz]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I mean look at stuff like undici....that isnt any better. Its just as impossible as say Revo etude.

Quoting because you compared Undici to Revo lol.

[foxfire667]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

As a player whose only been on the site 10 out of the 15 years its been here, when i joined there were PLENTY of files on here to play. Amongst those files were the legacy ones which i actually enjoyed playing. They REALLY arent as bad as you guys are making them out to be. Its a good feeling when you AAA them, and an even better feeling when you get all of the lower level ones. I mean look at stuff like undici....that isnt any better. Its just as impossible as say Revo etude.
Seriously, they should be left alone or at least left in game.

A newer player isnt going to play terror from beyond and not want to play anymore because its off sinc. lol

Come on man, you've played every one just like I have. Don't act like they aren't awful. Please don't compare something that is fundamentally bad (an unsynced file in a rhythm game) to something that is just extremely hard. You might not like Undici, but care and proper tools were used to ensure it was synced properly, and it went through a panel of judges that approved it. The satisfaction of AAAing these files is the kind of satisfaction you get when you finally remove a splinter, or finally clear out the water in your ear after a day. It feels good, but not something we should want people to have to deal with in the first place.

Also I don't see why they wouldn't. If they are newer and have no attachment, what's stopping them from just figuring they'll find better content on OSU, StepMania, or maybe something different entirely? I stayed because I developed an obsession at the time, but I imagine I am an outlier in that department.

Just have them all be in the Legacy Genre, and have the whole grenre unlock when you unlocks FFR Veteran status. Old players can still play them, new players can't until they unlock veteran, vet status means more.

I have problems with this idea for two reasons, first and foremost is that it doesn't seem to address stat tracking. If the files still count towards average rank or tier points, then there is this wall of a few hundred files that is hidden behind a long term barrier. I can only imagine a user finally unlocking veteran and hacking away at all these files, only to realize they are all crap and they have to deal with them all the same.

If they don't count towards stats fine, but that leaves one more small issue, which is gating the legacy content for older players who may not have earned veteran status. I'd rather that anyone who wants to experience the files can, but that they don't count towards anything meaningful for site rankings. For people who want to keep history in check, I think gating it behind a 10 month / 10 bil to 3 year / 3 bil requirement is a bit extreme.

[MrPoptart]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I am defiantly for their removal from things like ranking, token, and other requirements. I was just offering that as an alternative to removing them from the game entirely. My thought process being, anyone who would care about them being missing would probably already be a member here for 3+ years, and have played at least enough to build up an attachment to these files. Also, this would be an extra incentive for, but not the reason, to obtain vet status, an extra perk that allows those interested enough a way to view the game's history. The only real problem I can see is old returning players who create new accounts.

[foxfire667]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I was just offering that as an alternative to removing them from the game entirely.

As far as I know people haven't been arguing for that, and staff definitely aren't planning on removing the files completely. In case it wasn't clear, I'm arguing for separation from the main song list and rankings, I want the files to remain accessible to people who wish to play them.

Furthermore, here is Velo's post from earlier regarding the direction of legacy files:

For the R3 / Air Engine Legacy songs will be removed from the public list. They still continue to be available under "Alt Engine" selector for those wishing to play this part of the history.

[MrPoptart]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

Moving them to an alternate engine seems pretty removed, but I'm not super familiar with alt engines, sorry. Some of the people defending them seemed to be worried about their removal. I was just offering up an idea, not trying to argue against anything. As long as they're not ranked, I'm happy.

[foxfire667]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

Moving them to an alternate engine seems pretty removed, but I'm not super familiar with alt engines, sorry. Some of the people defending them seemed to be worried about their removal. I was just offering up an idea, not trying to argue against anything. As long as they're not ranked, I'm happy.

Technically they aren't moving to an alt engine, they are just going to have the legacy set list in the R3 / R3 Air alt engine dropdown. Files will of still be hosted on site, and apparently the list won't even change on Velocity or Legacy engines. I suppose that's fair, since newer players wouldn't be using Legacy or Velo engines anyway, and all direction is towards R3 Air downloads and in browser R3 play anyway.

Rankings and tier points are apparently still being discussed, so it's important as a community that we voice our opinions, and give explanations for our decisions whenever possible. I think I've went fairly in depth with how I feel about the situation, and will continue to as long as this issue is still a pressing matter staff are taking a look at. I would very much appreciate voices from any side of the spectrum though, so points can be discussed and fleshed out for staff as plainly as possible.

[PrawnSkunk]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

To clarify, "FFR Legacy Songs" will be permanently available under the alternate engine list, no engine URL or XML needed.

[Coolgamer]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I still think they should be in the public list, just not ranked.

Perhaps infotext explaining the songs are from an older time when you load the group, similar to the popup used for tokens?

[rushyrulz]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I still think they should be in the public list, just not ranked.

I'm seeing a lot of this type of comment going around, so I want to make something clear. People should only be advocating for removal of these files from public levelranks and tier points, where every score on every listed song counts. This should in no way affect scores on the Leaderboards.

I will actually quit this game entirely if scores on legacy songs are removed from the Leaderboards. I get not wanting to make users suffer through these files, but they should not be punished for actually getting a good score on a legacy file by having it not contribute to their FFR Rank. Having legacy songs count toward your FFR rank can only be beneficial and players would not be punished by having trash scores on the vast majority of them.

[MrPoptart]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I agree. To clarify, when I said not ranked, public levelranks and tier points is what I meant. Everybody should defiantly keep their ranks and scores similar to how token levelranks function.

[SK8R43]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

I mean i guess if they are moved but scores stay id be okay with that. I just think removing them completely isnt the right thing to do. Why punish people for working so hard to aaa most of them even if it was years ago. My whole argument was for if they got removed not moved.

[foxfire667]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

People should only be advocating for removal of these files from public levelranks and tier points, where every score on every listed song counts. This should in no way affect scores on the Leaderboards.

For added clarity this is the camp I am in as well. I would say it should work like this:

- Legacy files removed from public level ranks, thus no longer affecting average rank. This is especially important because legacy files have a ridiculous relative rank weight to them compared to newer releases. A file from a few years ago you never played might land you rank 1k, a random legacy file will usually have you at 100k+ on the easier difficulty ones. They dominate the bottom of your ranks and are the ones you have to gravitate towards to see significant change.

- Legacy files removed from tier points, as they should not be a requirement. This rewards whoring offsync files for AAA bonuses and trying to get good at awful content.

- All legacy scores and ranks remain, but on a separate stat page that is more tucked away so as not to make players think it's a thing they should bother with.

- Legacy files with proper difficulty rankings still working on the global leaderboard's skill ranking. If a top 10 player score is somehow a legacy file, we should allow them to keep that. As skill rating doesn't force people to play all songs, merely just deal with their 10 best scores, this shouldn't be an issue.

[kmay]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

And coming from someone that got eliminated from a tourney because of For FFR... BITCH GET THEM OUT OF HERE

[rushyrulz]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

And coming from someone that got eliminated from a tourney because of For FFR... BITCH GET THEM OUT OF HERE

I don't think this will prevent people from picking bad song choices for tournaments :P

[SK8R43]

Re: Isn't it time we said goodbye to the non tool-assisted files?

But for ffr is easy? just turn the sound off lmao.