Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

[icontrolyourworld]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

I don't think we should switch the grandtotal over unless there's basically an even grandtotal in the end. This is basically impossible though because breaking your combo would reduce your grandtotal score in the end by a lot, while raw scoring would only do it a little. It would be too much of a change for those that farm GT.

I have a suggestion (although probably not a great one), but we could add raw grandtotal as an additional individual stat starting at 0.

[SK8R43]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

I vote no.

[Red Blaster]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

No.

[noname219]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

I have an idea : if possible, implement both scoring models and let the system chose the best score every time (to add to the grandtotal).

[rushyrulz]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

would pretty much void the value of a full combo. Aside from the raw score benefits on the higher-accuracy level

[CarrotCake94]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

Grandtotal can still be based off of the combo scoring formula for all I care, but credits definitely should be based off of raw score imo.

Same. I agree. Credits given should definitely be based on raw score. Don't really mind what happens to Grandtotal, but in my opinion, should stay as comboscore. Grandtotal is something that has been based off of combo scoring since the beginning of each players account. Suddenly changing that it to raw score might throw off the players trying to unlock Vet, or try to hit certain number of combo scores in a day. Grandtotal should be kept around as a relic if it is replaced.

I am open to the idea of having the grandtotal be based of raw score, but it'd be nice to keep it seperate and to have it start fresh with a different counter, like a raw grandtotal.

[scoper49]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

Kind of taking suggestions from everyone so far. Raw scoring was implemented as a necessity to accurately define skill. Grand total doesn't affect anything skill-wise and the rank isn't even displayed on the front page's player card.

Combo scoring for GT should just be left alone since it would only negatively affect the current tokens and those who have/have not achieved them.

Finally combo scoring for credits should also remain the same because changing the speed at which you acquire credits whether slower or faster affects anyone trying to get them.

[SK8R43]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

would pretty much void the value of a full combo. Aside from the raw score benefits on the higher-accuracy level

FC's already dont really mean anything anymore. Id rather get a really good raw score than an OK fc, anyday.

[blindreper1179]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

Keep combo grand total, change credits to raw score.

[gold stinger]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

if grandtotal is determined by raw scoring

rip Hakulyte's 100,000,000,000 GT.

voted no fyi. I like combo scoring for GT. If it was swapped for raw scoring, not only would it be tons harder to get veteran status, but it would mean that no one would be able to get into the top 10 for the highest daily GT earned. Correct me if I'm wrong about that 2nd point and it's already in effect.

[ilikexd]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

if grandtotal is determined by raw scoring

rip Hakulyte's 100,000,000,000 GT.

voted no fyi. I like combo scoring for GT. If it was swapped for raw scoring, not only would it be tons harder to get veteran status, but it would mean that no one would be able to get into the top 10 for the highest daily GT earned. Correct me if I'm wrong about that 2nd point and it's already in effect.

The first post explains why none of this is relevant or correct.

[gold stinger]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

right.

Still voted no though.

It would mean zero reason to keep track or tally total score at all then unless there was a community-driven tournament that relied on it, but no one makes combo scoring tournaments anymore.
Keeping it at least for just credit distribution gives reason for people to exercise its use. Otherwise, it's literally just misused space on the R^3 results screen.

I don't have much of a ground for argument on it, but I think a lot of the support stemming for this is because FFR started with combo scoring, and they don't want to see it changed for the GT aspect of things. Credits I could understand though, because the whole shaboom is calculated under raw scoring now.

[Hakulyte]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

I have an idea : if possible, implement both scoring models and let the system chose the best score every time (to add to the grandtotal).

I'm going toward this idea too, it would give the insensitive to keep playing even after missing in the middle of the song. I would use the same idea for credits too, like if you missed in the middle of a song it uses the raw scoring formula to calculate credits, if your combo is really high and not the accuracy, you get the combo-scoring credits. This would leave some variety to the player in how to play and it's a win/win in terms of fixing combo-scoring multiplier value.

Need Option 3: Using both values and keeping the highest one. In theory, it should make farming GT slightly faster, but not enough to be a big deal.

[noname219]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

With some rough calculations here: The average quad mash on VS Boss Battle would probably go from something like 1.1-1.2m with combo scoring down to 900-950k (did a few test runs and calculated the raw total score). That brings the required time spent from ~14-15 hrs to ~17-19 hrs... which I think would make it much more difficult than previously, considering the amount of leeway time you are cutting. You'd have to really focus on PA the entire time or you'd just have to go for longer and take less breaks, either of which are a lot of strain after you've already been going for that long. Still quite possible, just a lot more of a pain in the butt.

I've just done 6 consecutive 10 minutes mini-session, each testing the two different scoring methods with 3 songs (Yoshi's Cookie, VS Boss Battle and Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star). Note that I tried different playstyle : cleaner runs and playing the whole file everytime for raw scoring and getting the biggest fc for combo scoring (only mashing when I felt was needed).

Yoshi's Cookie (could easily FC and get good PA)
Combo
7,594,095 points in 10 minutes
~816,569 points /minute (removing 2 seconds for writing score and restarting song) or 1,175,859,871 in 24 hours
Raw
238,245 x 31 = 7,385,595 points in 10 minutes
791,314 points/minute or 1,139,491,800 in 24 hours

Verdict : combo scoring is better by ~3%

VS Boss Battle (couldn't FC consistently and PA was average, I'm rusty)
Combo
10,861,655 points in 10 minutes
~1,189,232 points/minute or 1,712,494,511 in 24 hours
Raw
409,330 x 31 = 12,689,230 points in 10 minutes
~1,312,678 points/minute or 1,890,257,710 in 24 hours

Verdict : raw scoring is better by ~10%

Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star (did worse FC and PA-wise than VS Boss Battle, was mashing at parts on both tests)
Combo
8,372,865 points in 10 minutes
~906,808 points/minute or 1,305,804,217 in 24 hours
Raw
352,420 x 31 = 10,925,020 points in 10 minutes
~1,114,797 points/minute or 1,605,309,061 in 24 hours

Verdict : raw scoring is better by ~23%

Conclusion : if you manage to consistantly get a relatively clean high combo on the same song for 24 hours, combo scoring will be better for you, but not by much. The less clean your runs are, the better raw scoring is. Both scoring methods have their advantages but I would definitely chose raw scoring over combo scoring for a 24 hour session. RS, surprisingly, requires less concentration than anticipated and the fact that you can miss certain notes is satisfying - I was really doing messy in EHHS and the results are way better than I thought. Setting an autofail for combo scoring is more stressful, but you can take breaks by mashing certain parts or the entire song. Take those numbers with a grain of salt, a 10 minute playthrough do not scale very well to a 24 hour session.

Should change my vote.

[Silvuh]

Re: Should Raw Scoring be used to calculate Grandtotal?

To compare, it helps to multiply out the Raw Scoring model:

Combo: 550P + 275G +  55A - 310M -  20B + 1000C
 Raw: 1550P + 775G + 155A - 310M - 155B

and also to think in terms of how much each hit would take away from max GT:

Combo: -275G -  495A -  860M -  20B
 Raw : -775G - 1395A - 1860M - 155B

So perfects, goods, and averages would become worth 2.82 (31/11) times more (which means goods and averages hurt that much more), and a miss would hurt 2.16 times as much by itself (but a miss in the middle in combo scoring does more damage overall), and each boo hurts 7.75 times as much.

Players who trade their PA for combo by mashing would be hurt a lot, but also people who usually get FCs without mashing would be hurt a bit, because their near-perfect scores wouldn't be worth quite as much. (Basically, what lurker said.) So, changing to raw GT would help all the people who don't usually FC what they play.

And as noname219 pointed out, that because GT and combo are more measures of activity rather than skill, there's no need to switch them to raw scoring. But that alone doesn't inherently make the switch a bad idea.

Also as he suggested, the win-win of calculating both and then choosing the greater one sounds good. I'd think the only way it could hurt people is if they think it's unfair to them that people who don't play as well could be increasing their GT/credits just as much.

A few people said they'd want to keep the grand total the same but change credits to raw score, but it would be interesting to hear some arguments about why GT and credits should be treated differently.

Would be cool for the poll to cover all the options: combo GT / raw credits, raw GT / combo credits, and choosing the max of the two. (And perhaps a "neutral" option.)


Oh, also, about the session that noname just did: For the same reason that combo scoring was better for you on Yoshi's Cookie, anyone who can consistently FC and get a good PA on VS Boss Battle (over a long period of time) would prefer to have their GT and credits be based on combo scoring for that. But if they can't play consistently and they start to get more misses after a while, then that makes taking the max of the two methods even better.