iironiic's little experiment

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • iironiic
    D6 FFR Legacy Player
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Jan 2009
    • 4342

    #1

    iironiic's little experiment

    Hey guys! As you all know, I have been working on something secret (not so secret anymore haha) in the past few days. Because it seems pretty accurate, I think it is time to introduce what I am going to propose for FFR.

    Essentially, my goal behind this experiment is to measure someone's skill level based on the number of AAAs the player have obtained throughout their stay on FFR. For example, an 11.5 according to my formula constitutes that the player's AAAing skill level is simply around the mid-FMOish level. Similarly, this applies for all values between 1-13. This generally comes in handy when it comes to tournament placements since there are some players that don't entirely max out their stats.

    This formula assumes that you have played all of the public files on FFR to your best ability. Of course that doesn't mean that you can't apply this formula to yourself if you haven't played a few songs. If that was the case, all that will result from this formula is a less accurate rating of your AAAing skill level (most likely an underestimate).

    So what is this formula? Well, there are actually a few formulas that will determine the AAAing rating and it will depend on how many AAAs of that difficulty a player have obtained. Here is a flowchart that determines the formula you will use:



    Begin AAAing Rating Computation (determining the formula):

    1) Check to see if the player have at least 20% of all FGOs AAA'd. If so, apply the FGO AAA formula. The result of this FGO formula is the final rating the player will receive. If not, move onto 2).

    2) Check to see if the player have at least 20% of all FMOs AAA'd. If so, apply the FMO AAA formula**. If not, move onto 3).

    **If the player scores anything above or equal to a 12, apply the FGO formula. Otherwise, this is the player's final rating.

    3) Check to see if the player have at least 20% of all VCs AAA'd. If so, apply the VC AAA formula**. If not, move onto 4).

    **If the player scores anything above or equal to a 11, apply the FMO formula. Otherwise, this is the player's final rating.

    4) Check to see if the player have at least 20% of all 9s AAA'd. If so, apply the 9 AAA formula**. If not, move onto 5).

    **If the player scores anything above or equal to a 10, apply the VC formula. Otherwise, this is the player's final rating.

    etc.



    Why 20%? When implementing my formulas onto a few people, it seems that those who score one level higher generally AAAs at least 20% of that level. I don't want a fixed number here since this will essentially lower the percentage of needed AAAs to be "confident" in that level.

    Now onto the formula:



    The FGO Formula:


    With R is rating of the player, determines the players FGO Revised AAA Count, and Q(12) equals the number of FGO files in the game.

    So how is determined?

    First, compile a list of FGOs that you scored better than or equal to (2-0-0-0). Let's call A(x) the number of FGOs you scored x on.

    There are weights assigned to each of the scores:

    Code:
    AAA = 1
    (0-0-0-1) = 50/55
    (0-0-0-2) = 45/55
    (0-0-0-3) = 40/55
    (0-0-0-4) = 35/55
    (0-0-0-5) or (1-0-0-0) = 30/55
    (0-0-0-6) or (1-0-0-1) = 25/55
    (0-0-0-7) or (1-0-0-2) = 20/55
    (0-0-0-8) or (1-0-0-3) = 15/55
    (0-0-0-9) or (1-0-0-4) or (0-1-0-0) = 10/55
    (0-0-0-10) or (1-0-0-5) or (0-1-0-1) or (2-0-0-0) = 5/55
    Take the corresponding weight, multiply A(x), and add up everything. This is your .

    For example. I'll take my jackbuddy's (alloyus) stats as of 10/29/2011. He AAA'd 11 FGOs, scored (1-0-0-0) on 3 FGOs, and scored (2-0-0-0) on another 3. Therefore,


    Now, plug everything into the FGO formula. For jackbuddy's case, this is what it results down to:


    This implies that alloyus have a AAAing skill level at around a low-FGO level.


    The concept is similar for all other difficulties except different weights are assigned:

    For difficulty p:


    Code:
    p AAA = 1
    p (0-0-0-1) = 25/30
    p (0-0-0-2) = 20/30
    p (0-0-0-3) = 15/30
    p (0-0-0-4) = 10/30
    p (0-0-0-5) or p (1-0-0-0) = 5/30
    
    p+1 AAA = 1.25
    p+1 (0-0-0-1) = 27.5/30
    p+1 (0-0-0-2) = 25/30
    p+1 (0-0-0-3) = 22.5/30
    p+1 (0-0-0-4) = 20/30
    p+1 (0-0-0-5) or p+1 (1-0-0-0) = 17.5/30
    So if p = FMO, this is what the table would look like:

    Code:
    FMO AAA = 1
    FMO (0-0-0-1) = 25/30
    FMO (0-0-0-2) = 20/30
    FMO (0-0-0-3) = 15/30
    FMO (0-0-0-4) = 10/30
    FMO (0-0-0-5) or FMO (1-0-0-0) = 5/30
    
    FGO AAA = 1.25
    FGO (0-0-0-1) = 27.5/30
    FGO (0-0-0-2) = 25/30
    FGO (0-0-0-3) = 22.5/30
    FGO (0-0-0-4) = 20/30
    FGO (0-0-0-5) or FGO (1-0-0-0) = 17.5/30

    A few things to mention:

    The formula proposed here assumes that each FMO/FGO/VC w/e holds the same difficulty which is clearly not the case. An ideal formula would consider complex cases like this, but this is beyond way too much for me to handle.

    Again, this formula assumes that the player plays all of the public songs to his/her best ability. An underestimate is most likely to yield from this formula if there are some unplayed songs.

    There is a reason why those specific fractions are determined for weights. If you are interested in knowing why, let me know.

    Lastly, I give big thanks to AJ (TC_Halogen), Justin (justin_ator), and all of you guys who posted on my earlier thread for making this possible.

    EDIT: Thank you Enginuity for creating an excel program to make calculations much easier! Attached here is a program in a .zip file where you can download it and implement my algorithm on your public level ranks. Make sure to change all unrecorded scores (especially AAAs and flags) from (0-0-x-0-0) to (x-0-0-0-0). If more files are added in the game, Enginuity can easily fix the spreadsheet. The score to the left of the green box that doesn't say "NOT ENOUGH AAAs" is the score that determines your rating.

    Any question? Comments? Critiques? Feel free to discuss about it here.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by iironiic; 03-2-2012, 08:57 AM.
  • Ksl33zy24
    The New York Yankees
    • Dec 2009
    • 1047

    #2
    Re: iironiic's little experiment

    Welp, I won't even be considered in any formula here. (: Pretty cool, though. Maybe they'll implement this...
    it was urgent because i wanted it fixed fast.

    Comment

    • justin_ator
      🥓<strong><span style="col
      • Mar 2007
      • 7648

      #3
      Re: iironiic's little experiment

      Well if this gets implemented that'd be sick cause it could draw from stats and I wouldn't have to search people's ranks to get you data ;P

      Hope this gets implemented, you should post a few rankings just so people can get an idea more of how the numbers come out for people. =]

      Comment

      • One Winged Angel
        Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
        FFR Simfile Author
        • Mar 2007
        • 10837

        #4
        Re: iironiic's little experiment

        Honestly, I used to think of players in terms of the numbers that would be achieved using these formulae, you just took it to a whole new level hahaha

        Really sick stuff here, Wilson. Looks disturbingly accurate too, wow.
        Last edited by One Winged Angel; 10-29-2011, 10:29 AM.


        Originally posted by ilikexd
        i want to be cucked by cirno

        Comment

        • iironiic
          D6 FFR Legacy Player
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Jan 2009
          • 4342

          #5
          Re: iironiic's little experiment

          Originally posted by justin_ator
          Well if this gets implemented that'd be sick cause it could draw from stats and I wouldn't have to search people's ranks to get you data ;P

          Hope this gets implemented, you should post a few rankings just so people can get an idea more of how the numbers come out for people. =]
          I can do that with some of the data I have haha:

          Code:
          DossarLX ODI - 12.9604
          TC_Halogen - 12.55570248
          Xayphon - 12.50023471
          AlexDest - 12.33429421
          Ziergdsx18 - 12.14857521
          One Winged Angel - 12.0814843
          star reaper - 12.0889124
          smartdude1212 - 12.07438017
          alloyus - 12.06665785
          samurai7694 - 12.70865785
          leonid - 12.19200331
          xThai - 12.11683967
          This is not under the 4 digit rating though. That can get implemented after this formula gets tweaked if needed.

          Comment

          • justin_ator
            🥓<strong><span style="col
            • Mar 2007
            • 7648

            #6
            Re: iironiic's little experiment

            Lol at Dossar being almost at the 13 level.

            Comment

            • SkRAWRk
              FFR Player
              • Jul 2011
              • 217

              #7
              Re: iironiic's little experiment

              Originally posted by iironiic
              There is a reason why those specific fractions are determined for weights. If you are interested in knowing why, let me know.
              I'm interested. I have a few ideas, but I'm not at as advanced a level of Maths as you are, so I'm not sure if they'd be right.

              Despite that, I'm extremely interested in things like this and I like what you've done here, it looks really good. ^___^
              Ohey, a signature. Whut is this. o.o

              Comment

              • SkRAWRk
                FFR Player
                • Jul 2011
                • 217

                #8
                Re: iironiic's little experiment

                I think the only thing that kinda sucks is the huge gaps at the upper end of the table, but they definitely represent the skill levels correctly and in an efficient way. I think the FGO's will always be kinda inaccurate, but it seems like it should work well with FMO and below.
                Ohey, a signature. Whut is this. o.o

                Comment

                • One Winged Angel
                  Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 10837

                  #9
                  Re: iironiic's little experiment

                  I'm also extremely interested in knowing how you achieved those weights

                  edit: disregard what I wrote earlier if you saw it, didn't see the 1.25 for each FGO AAA, derp
                  Last edited by One Winged Angel; 10-29-2011, 10:52 AM.


                  Originally posted by ilikexd
                  i want to be cucked by cirno

                  Comment

                  • iironiic
                    D6 FFR Legacy Player
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 4342

                    #10
                    Re: iironiic's little experiment

                    Originally posted by SkRAWRk
                    I'm interested. I have a few ideas, but I'm not at as advanced a level of Maths as you are, so I'm not sure if they'd be right.

                    Despite that, I'm extremely interested in things like this and I like what you've done here, it looks really good. ^___^
                    Haha well I'll only discuss about the FMO case since they were all found in a similar fashion.

                    Anything less than or equal to a BF is arguably close to AAAing something (except for the case of FGOs since they are generally harder). So consider their raw scores.

                    Let's say we have a song with a perfect raw score of 10000. Then, a blackflag is 9975. Because raw scoring is based off on an increment of 5 points, anything above a 9970 is considered close to a AAA. The difference we are dealing with here is the 30 seen at the denominator of the weights. The numerators of the weights are the difference between the raw score you scored minus that threshold of 9970 for this example. This implies that if someone have a BF, then he would score 5 points over that threshold, which shows that a BF is 5/30. Same argument applies for all other scores less than a blackflag.

                    Originally posted by SkRAWRk
                    I think the only thing that kinda sucks is the huge gaps at the upper end of the table, but they definitely represent the skill levels correctly and in an efficient way. I think the FGO's will always be kinda inaccurate, but it seems like it should work well with FMO and below.
                    I realized that too, and I wish I can do something about it. However, I think the only explanation explaining this is that most people generally AAA a few handfuls of FGOs before AAAing all of the FMOs. That can also be seen under the case of VCs and FMOs. I think that's why there is this somewhat huge gap between the two difficulties.

                    I'm glad that most people are supporting this too

                    EDIT: For the difficulties +1 higher than the scoring difficulty, I made them weigh just slightly more since they also have to be considered in the formula.

                    EDIT2: Another reason why I think there is this huge gap is that the remaining FGOs at the upper end of the scale are generally much much difficult and should be more rewarding. It may seem that way, but you get A LOT of points if you have something like 12.7 and AAA'd one of your remaining FGOs.
                    Last edited by iironiic; 10-29-2011, 10:57 AM.

                    Comment

                    • i love you
                      Live a wonderful life~
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 7313

                      #11
                      Re: iironiic's little experiment

                      That is one sick idea you got there iironiic. I definitely support this idea wow.
                      ===============================
                      The idea that RDCP 3 may come out in the future is a fun thought to have~
                      ===============================

                      Comment

                      • justin_ator
                        🥓<strong><span style="col
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 7648

                        #12
                        Re: iironiic's little experiment

                        See, now is when I really wish I knew enough coding/etc to set it up myself to draw data from the levelranks, cause I'm curious to see how this works on lower rank users as well.

                        I suppose if someone really wanted me to try and gather some lower level data from a user or two, I could, but I need someone who knows the general range of their skill so I know where to look through their stats (as well as having played most of the public songs of that difficulty and lower that way things aren't skewed).

                        Comment

                        • Enginuity
                          FFR Player
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 107

                          #13
                          Re: iironiic's little experiment

                          Out of curiosity, I wrote an excel file that calculates my score. I'm willing to post it (so people can use it for their own scores), if it's okay with you iironiic.

                          In anycase, my score is 1609.53 (diff 7, not enough AAA's in diff 8) [Corresponded to 7.233].
                          Last edited by Enginuity; 10-29-2011, 11:00 AM.

                          Comment

                          • DossarLX ODI
                            Batch Manager
                            Game Manager
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 14999

                            #14
                            Re: iironiic's little experiment

                            This is frickin amazing haha.

                            Originally posted by justin_ator
                            Lol at Dossar being almost at the 13 level.
                            Crowdpleaser
                            Originally posted by hi19hi19
                            oh boy, it's STIFF, I'll stretch before I sit down at the computer so not I'm not as STIFF next time I step a file

                            Comment

                            • iironiic
                              D6 FFR Legacy Player
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 4342

                              #15
                              Re: iironiic's little experiment

                              Originally posted by justin_ator
                              See, now is when I really wish I knew enough coding/etc to set it up myself to draw data from the levelranks, cause I'm curious to see how this works on lower rank users as well.

                              I suppose if someone really wanted me to try and gather some lower level data from a user or two, I could, but I need someone who knows the general range of their skill so I know where to look through their stats (as well as having played most of the public songs of that difficulty and lower that way things aren't skewed).
                              It would work on everyone. For those that can't AAA anything song harder than Free Space, that person will have a rating of 1 since it's: 1+ (0/4) = 1.

                              That means his/her 4 digit rating is at 1000.

                              If someone have loads of FMO AAAs but for some magical reason, cannot AAA Free Space, he will still have that rating around that FMO level. Fortunately I don't have to consider rare cases like this xD.

                              EDIT:
                              Originally posted by Enginuity
                              Out of curiosity, I wrote an excel file that calculates my score. I'm willing to post it (so people can use it for their own scores), if it's okay with you iironiic.

                              In anycase, my score is 1609.53 (diff 7, not enough AAA's in diff 8) [Corresponded to 7.233].
                              Yeah that's completely fine! In fact, I encourage you to do it since I'm sure there are many people out there that have no clue what I'm saying haha.

                              Comment

                              Working...