Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

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  • Callipygian
    Senior FFR citizen
    • Jun 2007
    • 1537

    #1

    Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

    When playing through Gruntilda's Final Battle for the first time, there was nothing in the first two minutes or so to make me doubt that the 64 rating was roughly correct. The 16th runningmen patterns and the 24ths with a reasonably fast BPM and some short [3]-jacks in 24ths were sufficiently tricky to qualify for a relatively hard 'very challenging' label.

    However, in the last minute there is quite a lengthy part with mini-jacks that tests jacking in all four arrows ([1], [2], [3], [4]) on high speed with quick transitions between the fingers. When compared to, say, Battle Theme #37, which I presume is rated a 67 because of the few mini-jacks in it, the mini-jacks in Gruntilda present a much bigger challenge.

    This is also what I experienced on a second playthrough and my suspicion that I was not the only one having troubles was confirmed when looking through the high score list. Granted, the song was only recently released, but many high-tier players, including Fantasticone, Hakulyte, tosh, kmay, and the step artist himself, Charu, have not yet AAA'd this song.

    I don't have a good memory for songs with comparable BPM or patterns, so I'm sorry if I fail to buttress my argument by a solid comparison to 64-69 difficulty songs, but the combination of a relatively long (3 min +) chart with up-speed 16ths and 24ths in sometimes tricky patterns, followed by a mini-jack section that even high division players tend to dump goods on, seems to me to warrant a higher difficulty rating than the one currently assigned to it.

    I think the minijack part in particular make this chart a FMO and not the easiest one at that. I wouldn't say this is 70+ material, since it's only the 10 seconds or so of minijacks that are responsible for the difficulty spike that make me question the 64 rating, but with charts like Battle Theme (a few minijacks) and For FFR (atrocious roll-ending) getting a 67 because of short difficulty spikes, I think Gruntilda's Final Battle would also deserve a 67 or perhaps even a 68 rating.
    Sick nature
  • Jtehanonymous
    Hunger Games Hunty
    • Jan 2007
    • 3770

    #2
    Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

    Quite possibly the only part of this song that warrants a rating in the 67/68 range is that slightly lengthy mini jack section that you mentioned. It's probably the only part I'm not confident with myself, although I haven't played the song too many times. (I currently have a BF)

    I could see it being around a 65-66? Over 64 is definitely not exaggerating haha. But the fact that everything else is considerably easier (and I mean a LOT easier) still wouldn't be enough for just that portion to bump the whole thing up to a 68. :o

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    • XelNya
      [Kaho]
      FFR Simfile Author
      • Sep 2012
      • 3368

      #3
      Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

      The runningmen are actually really nice for spread players compared to what they COULD be. ( 4 3 4 2 4 ect.) Which is probably the only thing that keeps it from being higher, because the streams are relatively simple.

      The chart is certainly harder than Battle Theme #37 if ONLY for the minijacks, which is honestly pretty disgusting. I'd lump it to 67 unless a better argument than just the minijacks is thrown into the pile. They're aids yes, but I think it's a case of Pandora or even MFDFY. It's got one hard part and the rest of it is laughably easier. I'd make sure to keep this out of Oni get territory though if possible. It's not an FMO, it's a VC with an FMO section that should have been done differently.
      Last edited by XelNya; 08-22-2014, 09:04 PM.

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      • blindreper1179
        Vice President Of TGB
        • Jun 2006
        • 5900

        #4
        Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

        It's a 62.
        Originally posted by thesunfan
        absolutely I want to vomit on your face irl
        Originally posted by choof
        It was like trying to throw logic at a fuckin brick wall lmao
        Originally posted by choof
        whats more dense, a black hole or an icyworld file
        Originally posted by Celirra
        I've never been so disappointed by a man from Alabama than I am right now

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        • ___________
          Banned
          • Sep 2012
          • 585

          #5
          Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

          Another case of borderline songs being harder to AAA than actual FMO's, but somehow being out of the [Oni] unlock range due to sheer spikiness of said song.

          I say, keep it at a 10. The jacks, while fast, do not force awkward patterns on one hand. Charu could've done it a lot worse, at which point it would be in the FMO range.

          Comment

          • Gradiant
            FFR's Resident Trashpanda
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Sep 2012
            • 1097

            #6
            Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

            Originally posted by Jtehanonymous
            But the fact that everything else is considerably easier (and I mean a LOT easier) still wouldn't be enough for just that portion to bump the whole thing up to a 68. :o
            There are plenty of files with a high rating because of one tiny hard section.

            Only problem with bumping this up is the rating is currently on par with CSGS, which is also hard because of the jacks. If Gruntilda is to be bumped up, CSGS should be too.

            Could see this as a 66, similar to BKE. Easy JS, hard part is because of the few minijacks...

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            • ___________
              Banned
              • Sep 2012
              • 585

              #7
              Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

              The difference is, Black Key Etude has one-handed patterns (I said this in my last post) despite being at a slower BPM, while Gruntilda does not.

              Comment

              • YoshL
                Celestial Harbor
                FFR Simfile Author
                FFR Music Producer
                • Aug 2008
                • 6156

                #8
                Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                Originally posted by Gradiant
                There are plenty of files with a high rating because of one tiny hard section.

                Only problem with bumping this up is the rating is currently on par with CSGS, which is also hard because of the jacks. If Gruntilda is to be bumped up, CSGS should be too.

                Could see this as a 66, similar to BKE. Easy JS, hard part is because of the few minijacks...
                pretty sure CSGS is slower than gruntilda, idk exactly though


                Originally posted by Charu
                Only yours, for an easy price of $19.99! You too can experience the wonders of full motion rump sticking.

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                • Gradiant
                  FFR's Resident Trashpanda
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 1097

                  #9
                  Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                  Originally posted by YoshL
                  pretty sure CSGS is slower than gruntilda, idk exactly though
                  Sure, the thing is though, the csgs jack sets are longer and are placed in a pattern that is awkward to play, whike gruntilda is short minijacks organized in a broken staircase. Id say that makes them about equal.

                  Originally posted by ___________
                  The difference is, Black Key Etude has one-handed patterns (I said this in my last post) despite being at a slower BPM, while Gruntilda does not.
                  I dont see as much of the one handedness in bke, and could say that the fact bke is slower makes it and gruntilda close in difficulty.
                  Last edited by EzExZeRo7497; 08-22-2014, 11:25 PM.

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                  • One Winged Angel
                    Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 10837

                    #10
                    Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                    The great (read: hilarious) thing about 180bpm is you get conversions like this: 3 frame gaps between each minijack set but 2 frame gaps on the minijacks themselves



                    These sections easily make the file more difficult to AAA than a good handful of low FMOs, so I wouldn't mind making this a 66/67. It just lacks structural consistency in difficulty. I don't think we'd need to worry about an influx of Oni gets due to making this file an FMO (how many people have unlocked Oni on For FFR?)


                    Originally posted by ilikexd
                    i want to be cucked by cirno

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                    • Charu
                      Snivy! Dohoho!
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 6161

                      #11
                      Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                      Oh hey, it's my baby!

                      To be honest, was expecting a 65 difficulty rating. Though if you wanna make this a 66, no objection on my end, dohohoho.

                      Originally posted by XelNya
                      It's not an FMO, it's a VC with an FMO section that should have been done differently.
                      If done differently you mean making it either a stream pattern or trill pattern, then eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh...
                      Last edited by Charu; 08-22-2014, 11:02 PM.


                      Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                      Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                      Had a very shiny nose
                      And if you ever saw it
                      You could even say it glows

                      All of the other Snivies
                      Used to laugh and call him names
                      They never let poor Charu
                      Join in any Snivy games

                      (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                      Originally posted by Vendetta21
                      All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

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                      • Gradiant
                        FFR's Resident Trashpanda
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1097

                        #12
                        Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                        Okay, first thing I see when I look at the image of the frames is the left hand stuff with the jump and minijack. Pretty much equals the few onehanded-ish sections in Black Key Etude I think. I'd love to see this as a 66.

                        Comment

                        • Charu
                          Snivy! Dohoho!
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 6161

                          #13
                          Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                          Originally posted by Callipygian
                          and the step artist himself, Charu, have not yet AAA'd this song.
                          Alright, I was going to prove a point or something and just post a AAA, but... I can't.

                          DANG IT!!!


                          Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                          Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                          Had a very shiny nose
                          And if you ever saw it
                          You could even say it glows

                          All of the other Snivies
                          Used to laugh and call him names
                          They never let poor Charu
                          Join in any Snivy games

                          (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                          Originally posted by Vendetta21
                          All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

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                          • danceflashrevo
                            scumfan is scared of aa
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 488

                            #14
                            Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                            I know I'm a big dummy ffr player that doesn't know what the hell he's doing but I honestly feel it's a 64 (but I'm better at jacks). Uhm... yeah just voicing my opinion. 65 at most. Definitely not an FMO imo.

                            Why are you here?

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                            • _Zenith_
                              Accuracy Player
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 4629

                              #15
                              Re: Gruntilda's Final Battle [64 or 67/68]

                              I tell ya, this new difficulty scale has me so confused.

                              Label it 9 and be done with it (for all you older FFR players)


                              When I first played the song, I though it fit perfectly, and then noticing I couldn't grab the AAA on a 64 on the first attempt, looking more closely at the chart as a whole, I'd say it's at best a 66, no higher. 67 is too high imo (if you play Very Challenging songs regularly) it best fits in as a 66 because of the minijack section that is almost but not quite there a FMO. The ending in itself also poses some tricky sections that would make this a 66, where if the ending and beginning were similar or exactly the same, It would be a 64/65 all day.
                              Last edited by _Zenith_; 08-22-2014, 11:28 PM.





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