Bush Booed at Inauguration...

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

I was under the impression that the mortgage problem was partially caused by a lot of inadvisable loans to those who weren't qualified, and also that the decision to do so had a lot to do with there being far less qualified people to buy a home, which was caused by the poor economy for which the Iraq was partly to blame. I honestly didn't realize that these aren't related.

I want to figure out how Iraq tanked the economy considering GDP growth peaked during the midst of the war

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

And perhaps I should have clarified that I'm speaking more to the general state of the economy than the current mortgage problem in the US.

Yeah, the war we are in, which we started, which was started by the Bush administration, is contributing to the recession.

So when you said "the recession" you didn't mean the current recession which everyone is talking about and exploded in September when the stock market dropped thousands of points but rather the slight decline in GDP growth over 4 years that no one was talking about.

[OrganisM]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

So when you said "the recession" you didn't mean the current recession which everyone is talking about and exploded in September when the stock market dropped thousands of points but rather the slight decline in GDP growth over 4 years that no one was talking about.

As far as I understand it, kmay and I were talking about the general economic decline. Once again, look at the decline in GDP growth vs. world growth, and then individual countries. The GDP growth percentage worldwide is higher than the US. That's all I was saying with those statistics, because that's what you were asking me about.

And also, are we taking into account the national debt incurred by the war?

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

A drop in growth is not a recession. A recession is when something recedes.

That's like saying the flooded river is receding because it's only rising at 2 inches per hour compared to a foot an hour yesterday.

[OrganisM]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

A drop in growth is not a recession. A recession is when something recedes.

That's like saying the flooded river is receding because it's only rising at 2 inches per hour compared to a foot an hour yesterday.

Uhh,

recede: 2: to grow less or smaller : diminish , decrease <a receding deficit>

drop: a decline in quantity or quality

Decline: 6: to become less in amount

....what the **** are we talking about here? I thought a recession was a drop in GDP for two quarters or more.

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

....what the **** are we talking about here? I thought a recession was a drop in GDP for two quarters or more.

GDP growth is not GDP.

[MrRubix]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

It's just that you'd expect a leader -- the "main" representative of our country, to be fit for many things. When your leader stumbles over his own words, makes decisions with unclear motives, takes off many vacation days, disrupts relations with other countries, and does all this during a time when things are arguably falling apart, of course people are going to be upset, and of course people are going to question leadership ability.

Perhaps Bush tried his best -- but I don't think he was a wise decision-maker or leader. Effort and intent, as people (hopefully) realize with maturity, does not automatically absolve someone of blame, or shift responsibility elsewhere when things go awry. As Obama has stated, a large problem with our country today derives from accountability and responsibility. People need to be responsible for their actions, and we need to make more intelligent decisions, and those decisions need to be made with a clear, open intent. Without a proper accountability system, we run into all sorts of issues... ohi subprimez.

EDIT: Also, I don't know wtf you guys are debating, but the Iraq war drain is only one problematic source. The subprime issue is something else entirely, and is derived from systemic problems within the housing market and banking systems.

Another EDIT: While I think O'Reilly is a flaming douchebag, Barney Frank screwed up. Hard. Oh so very hard. We all knew, a few years ago, that there was a housing bubble, and we knew that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were just feeding the fires. Frank tried to make it look like they weren't facing any sort of financial meltdowns, and continued to push for extending loans to those with horrible credit histories, or those who were clearly too poor to be able to pay anything back effectively. Couple that with the lowered capital requirements for FM&FM that brought on higher risk (and was abused to high heaven), and you've got a pretty unstable thing going for you. Only when things started spiraling out of control did Frank try to save face. While he is not solely responsible for the mess, he is a huge contributor to it. O'Reilly did the right thing by ripping this guy apart on his show. I feel like he could have done a more effective job by citing a lot more facts, but Frank really needed to get his ass kicked.

[OrganisM]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

So you're saying a drop in growth is not going to cause a drop in the overall total vs. if the drop in growth didn't happen?

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

So you're saying a drop in growth is not going to cause a drop in the overall total vs. if the drop in growth didn't happen?

... er yes?

A boy grows 3 inches a year for 4 years. One year he grows 1 inch. Does he get shorter? No, his height has not receded. He is simply growing more slowly.

Is this good for an economy? No, growth is a good thing (as long as it's based on legitimate gains), but a slowing of growth is NOT a recession.

I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

[MrRubix]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

You just got first-derivative-pwnt, sir

[kmay]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

It's just that you'd expect a leader -- the "main" representative of our country, to be fit for many things. When your leader stumbles over his own words, makes decisions with unclear motives, takes off many vacation days, disrupts relations with other countries, and does all this during a time when things are arguably falling apart, of course people are going to be upset, and of course people are going to question leadership ability.

i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know. Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?

[OrganisM]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

... er yes?

A boy grows 3 inches a year for 4 years. One year he grows 1 inch. Does he get shorter? No, his height has not receded. He is simply growing more slowly.

Is this good for an economy? No, growth is a good thing (as long as it's based on legitimate gains), but a slowing of growth is NOT a recession.

I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

I'm not debating that the boy won't become shorter, I'm saying that he's shorter than he would have been had the rate of growth continued.

I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

Well, misappropriation of terms is not necessarily the same thing as having no concept of cause and effect in the economy.

i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know.

Wait, Bush didn't lie or tell half-truths?

Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?

No, that's an entirely different issue, but good try. I misused terms and now I'm taking the heat for it.

[MrRubix]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know. Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?

We don't know yet how Obama will perform as a President -- he just started. I'd prefer a well-spoken President who makes sound decisions over a socially retarded President who makes poor decisions, to be sure. I'd even settle for a socially retarded President who makes good decisions. But I think an effective leader needs to be good at both. You need to be a good communicator, which Bush was not.

[Grandiagod]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

I'm not debating that the boy won't become shorter, I'm saying that he's shorter than he would have been had the rate of growth continued.

Good, then you agree that a slow in growth is not a recession of the GDP but rather simply something not getting as big as it was previously. And definitely not what ANYONE was talking about.

Wikipedia:

In economics, the term recession generally describes the reduction of a country's gross domestic product (GDP) for at least two quarters.[1][2] The usual dictionary definition is "a period of reduced economic activity", a business cycle contraction.[3][4]

A reduction in SIZE, not a reduction of GROWTH. Say "my bad" and move on please. This is getting annoying.

[kmay]

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...

I'm with you there rubix, but im saying that obama could just be cool to the public, lie, and basically feed us **** and we wouldn't know what is going on in our country till it starts to fall apart. I know today is what his 2nd full day as president he couldn't have done anything to mess up yet.