My rant on government benefits

[Cavernio]

Re: My rant on government benefits

Being unhealthy would definitely aggravate a depressive state but you're shifting 100% of the 'blame' to an autoimmune disease. Depression is a deeper issue than that, otherwise everyone who has that disease also has depression and curing this disease cures depression.

That's just blatant fallacious reasoning. Symptoms are symptoms, not diagnoses for a reason, because there are numerous causes for symptoms. A diagnosis is supposed to be an explanation. eg: I never had an upset stomach from eating gluten, yet I still have celiac disease. Not all causes for depression are the same. Neither will all the treatments be.
And I'm quite aware that I'm basically shifting 100% of my mental illness onto my celiac disease, because that's my experience with it. You cannot refute my experiences, you can perhaps make me see that I'm not including something or am ignoring something, but there's no way you're going to convince me that if I were still eating gluten that I could overcome my depression.

Furthermore, of great importance to the initial reason this thread was made, is that the only way I found any sort of happiness while depressed was to stop trying so fucking hard. Accepting that I might simply not have the capacity anymore to do things that I had so desperately wanted to do in my past. At the extreme end of that was/is the prospect that I simply might not be able to work any sort of regular job. Accepting that people will perceive me as a lazy, selfish person and trying to not believe them.

I see a great deal of defensiveness and negativity in your posts whenever you discuss something that you have personal experiences with; it makes you very difficult to exchange viewpoints with since you come down harshly on anyone with a difference in opinion.

I fail to see this as a problem though. I'm allowed to be angry at people's ignorance, misinformation or preposterous views. I'm not dismissive, I'm addressing the points that I have issues with and despite it all you and me are still having a dialogue. I have no desire to be less harsh.

Also the "I've fixed myself Namaste ideology crap" is a coping mechanism a LOT of people recovering from mental illness use. I can at the very least tell you with certainty that keeping a closed mind is what prevents people from recovering and pushing forward.

You've never experienced your own mood fumble and fall due to fuck knows what have you? You've never experienced the frustration of thinking about the exact, same occurrence or event in the exact same way at 2 separate times and experienced 2 contrasting emotions. What, pray tell, is one supposed to keep an open mind to? That today you'll wake up and you won't get upset? That when I feel myself getting more and more irked by the situation around me I should just -not- get upset by it? Oh well let me tell you, I've somehow managed to do that too, nothing like disconnecting from one's emotions to cope. Cause that's healthy.

Honestly, I don't know what you MEAN when you say someone must be open-minded to push forward. What do they do? How can they do it? Surely there's something more tangible to what you're saying, there has to be if being open-minded helps.

I'm jaded as fuck about all this shit, less so now than at some points, but the very fact that I am being so negative and get angered by some things is not, in fact, me being depressed. How, praytell, if I have such a negative outlook, did I dare to overcome being depressed huh?

Edit: Celiac disease, as it manifests in me, affects me neurologically. This is not an uncommon occurrence within celiac disease, much like the skin rash from celiac disease isn't uncommon. But not everyone will have the same symptoms as the antibodies don't all react to the same tissue for some reason.

[Cavernio]

Re: My rant on government benefits

You just don't GET IT pseudo enigma. Ability isn't just about intelligence, mental illness isn't about 'I've chosen to have the wrong mindset'.

If she were a paraplegic, you would not be upset by her inability to walk, nor would you hold it against her. But because her problems are in her head, you DO hold it against her. You DO NOT UNDERSTAND why she does what she does because if you did you would accept her as doing the best that she can do.

Is the paraplegic lazy for not walking? No.
You're aware that there are plenty of people for whom decision-making and free-will is itself impaired, and that is part of the illness, right?

I don't even...I would only be heartbroken to see my kids perceive me as a lazy being when I chose them over myself. If my kids were to perceive me as having done an amazing job given my circumstances, I would never have any reason to feel like I'd failed. You're part of the problem, because of your perceptions of her and her abilities and her choices.

It's quite possible to beat yourself up and tell yourself that you haven't tried enough, and have your own perceptions be the ones that are wrong. It's likely to happen too, if everyone around you tells you that same thing too. Doesn't mean it's accurate.

There's being mentally ill, and then there's dealing with the stigma of being mentally ill. These are 2 separate problems. Anyone's likely to get depressed, even in a clinical sense of the word, if they perceive they aren't good enough.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: My rant on government benefits

You DO NOT UNDERSTAND why she does what she does because if you did you would accept her as doing the best that she can do.

Is the paraplegic lazy for not walking? No.

But this is clearly not the case. She has all the ability in the world to choose, and she hasn't come to an answer. She's perfectly capable of doing anything she wants, and it's better than doing nothing. You shouldn't make excuses for yourself ever. If you know you can do better, you should be doing it. Anything else is just a stupid waste of your time. If she told me she couldn't do it because of her mental illness(es) I would be perfectly accepting of that. It's the least I could do. But this is clearly not the case because even she doesn't want to accept that she's a secondary human merely because she's got a mental illness. Maybe you're okay with that, but she's told me she isn't.

You shouldn't make excuses for yourself ever. If you know you can do better, you should be doing it. Anything else is just a stupid waste of your time.

I'm going to be very clear about this: if she thinks that sitting around and keeping herself from having a mental fit, or hurting herself further is "doing something better," then I'm perfectly okay with that. It's her decision to make, and as I said, she still hasn't come to an answer with what she wants to do.

You're aware that there are plenty of people for whom decision-making and free-will is itself impaired, and that is part of the illness, right?

My mother is not an idiot/moron, and she's not a vegetable. I doubt she isn't aware of what she is doing to herself, and isn't making conscious decisions in her life. If she was, she wouldn't have been able to keep me by herself for so long. Not even legally. My dad would have instantly tried to take me from my mom if she was being impeded from making decisions properly. My dad would look for any small weakness like that and turn it against her. So no. She's not impeded from making those choices.

My mom is probably some percentage of lazy. Not everything is black and white. We can't just say "she's not lazy, she's mentally ill" when it's probably some of both. I'm lazy. I know it. That's what keeps me from doing some things some days. If this were a thing of either being one thing or the other, I'd simply say I was depressed. But that's not true in the slightest. Maybe there's a shred of apathy, maybe there's a slight tint of grey making it harder for me to see the good things, but that doesn't mean I'm not lazy at all. If I take out the laziness aspect of me not getting things done, there's enough room for me to inject some enthusiasm to balance out the fact that I know it's all pointless and will never account to anything in the end. "Do it anyway" is purely the driving motion for anything I do these days. And when I look back at some of the things I've done, I can be at least a little bit proud that I did anything at all. It helps me feel better about my situation.

Anyway this isn't even the point. The point is that my mom has been looking for ways to get tested on what she might have, be it SAD, AD(H)D, Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar, whatever. She hasn't been allowed to have those tests. They simply give her some sort of med for something unrelated and just brush it under the carpet. People on Welfare are expected to perform at least enough to fulfill their agreement. What my mom is being expected to do is impossible in her state and she wants it to be fixed. She doesn't want to feel uncomfortable knowing that she's got something they don't know about. She wants them to acknowledge it so she can move on and accept it for herself. She's been trying to get disability for somewhere around 6-8 years now and she's never passed a test. She just wants to move on and be able to work. This isn't a thing of "oh I'm expected to work so I should". No, she really believes that she can work and will work some day. If I didn't think so too, I would tell her that she's 55 and she's getting a bit too old to just jump into the workforce with no experience. That is literally the last thing I would ever say to her.

It would be nothing less than a tragedy for my mom to have a desire to work that went unfulfilled just because she couldn't get diagnosed and medicated. She's a strong, dedicated person who doesn't deserve what she is getting right now. But there's no way to call them on it, because they evade or deny it. They say things like "oh we'll put you on Team B, etc" but never actually do. She has to wait months to get a doctor to look at her, and then sometimes it's not even covered by Welfare. That means we either starve and go to the food bank for a few months to chase something that might not even be positive, or we ignore it.

The system doesn't help those who are down, they even go so far as to make an attempt to kick the people that don't deserve it. Clearly ignoring your mental illness is the only way to get anywhere in this world, instead of chasing answers that will never be available to you because you're too damn poor. It's a vicious circle my mother has been caught in for over 15 years. You can't know because you don't have a job. You can't get a job because you don't know.

[kommisar]

Re: My rant on government benefits

Eliminating poverty/diminishing the lower class is a worthy cause imo. I agree that there exist some government programs that are easily taken advantage of and perhaps this money is spent on "lost causes" like drug addicts and other drains on society. On a general level though, people's tax dollars are better spent reducing poverty than buying an extra television set for their households.

Obviously communism isn't the way to go, but I believe that tightening the gap between classes such that poverty is at a minimum is the best way to go.

I wish everyone would think at least broadly this way

[Cavernio]

Re: My rant on government benefits

Who says I'm ok with anything regarding my own mental health beyond knowing my celiac disease is to blame?

I'm glad to see a shift from blaming your mom to blaming everything but herself. You've called her both weak and strong.
It is tragic if she cannot work even if she wants to. But the only way for that to stop being a problem is either work or accept that she cannot. Otherwise it will eat up at her like you say it still does.

Most mental health problems don't have great prognoses, even for the rich and affluent.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: My rant on government benefits

Who says I'm ok with anything regarding my own mental health beyond knowing my celiac disease is to blame?

It is tragic if she cannot work even if she wants to. But the only way for that to stop being a problem is either work or accept that she cannot. Otherwise it will eat up at her like you say it still does.

Most mental health problems don't have great prognoses, even for the rich and affluent.

*sigh*
Guess we'll just have to elect a president/PM that has a major mental illness
(just kidding, that will never happen!)

I'm glad to see a shift from blaming your mom to blaming everything but herself. You've called her both weak and strong.

Well I never said she wasn't both.

[Snowcrafta]

Re: My rant on government benefits

*sigh*
Guess we'll just have to elect a president/PM that has a major mental illness
(just kidding, that will never happen!)

(George W. Bush)

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: My rant on government benefits

(George W. Bush)

touche

[adlp]

Re: My rant on government benefits

(George W. Bush)

ok so im not a GWB fan but i'm fairly certian he's smarter than anyone on this website, being an ivy league grad and what not

he has an accent and makes up words. big fucken deal

you cant say obama has been a better president than him when obama has extremely similar foreign policies and government expansion

spouting stuff like this that you heard on Olbermann 5 years ago isn't cool and still makes you look like a moron when i know youre not

[devonin]

Re: My rant on government benefits

Because graduating Ivy League makes you intelligent.

[adlp]

Re: My rant on government benefits

it probably helps a lil

[devonin]

Re: My rant on government benefits

it probably helps a lil

Yeah, and he never made Honour Roll at his private school even once, and his SAT scores were 200 points below the median for acceptance into Yale.

His education had nothing to do with his family's wealth and power I'm sure.

[Dynam0]

Re: My rant on government benefits

It is tragic if she cannot work even if she wants to. But the only way for that to stop being a problem is either work or accept that she cannot. Otherwise it will eat up at her like you say it still does.

Most mental health problems don't have great prognoses, even for the rich and affluent.

I'm sorry but I agree with Pseudo here that there should never be an excuse to settle! Unless you're a psychopath or someone who has the mental capacity of a 12 year-old, you as a cognizant human being who understands cause and effect have the ability to rise above any mental prisons or barriers you are creating for yourself. I said you need to have an open mind because without accepting that your beliefs about yourself are wrong and need to be challenged, (i.e. "I'm not good enough", "I can't hold a job", etc.) you will remain stuck in the rut that you are in. The unfortunate thing about this is inertia; the longer you stay in this mindset and are comfortable with being that way, the harder it will be to change your ideals.

I'm not saying people don't have the choice to embrace being depressed, however I do think that is the easy way out and I have no sympathy for said people if they use their mind-state as a weapon or an excuse for being unable to do something.

I am arguing that mental illness (at least in terms of depression) is 100% curable with a combination of hard work and clinical treatment and is not the same as a chronic impairment like vertigo that you have absolutely zero control over. Have at me

[Reincarnate]

Re: My rant on government benefits

GWB is a great guy -- smart, too. Just not a good President.

[devonin]

Re: My rant on government benefits

I'm sorry but I agree with Pseudo here that there should never be an excuse to settle! Unless you're a psychopath or someone who has the mental capacity of a 12 year-old, you as a cognizant human being who understands cause and effect have the ability to rise above any mental prisons or barriers you are creating for yourself. I said you need to have an open mind because without accepting that your beliefs about yourself are wrong and need to be challenged, (i.e. "I'm not good enough", "I can't hold a job", etc.) you will remain stuck in the rut that you are in. The unfortunate thing about this is inertia; the longer you stay in this mindset and are comfortable with being that way, the harder it will be to change your ideals.

I'm not saying people don't have the choice to embrace being depressed, however I do think that is the easy way out and I have no sympathy for said people if they use their mind-state as a weapon or an excuse for being unable to do something.

Getting a job on a good day: Doable. Easy even.

Keeping a job, in this economy, with this societal stigma against mental illness, on a bad day? Much harder.