So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

[Reincarnate]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Well since I tend to be an extremest and work hard for everything I have, I tend to not feel sorry for a single person in this country and I think we should get rid of welfare and food stamps altogether and resort to a "survival of the fittest" society. Call me heartless or whatever you want but I'm sick of seeing our country pay for people that got themselves into hard times or just don't "feel like" working. If some trashy people wanna fuck each other and have more kids than they can handle financially, we as tax payers should not have to forward a single penny towards helping them out. That's their problem, and it should be 100% on them to get themselves out of that mess. If they can't, well, they don't deserve to live. You don't have to worry though because nothing I say would actually happen and we will continue to help out people who don't deserve it. I think it should be everyone for themselves and if you want to help someone out by all means go for it.

Please read this first and respond:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

http://dailynewsfinder.com/2012/11/21/facts-and-myths-about-welfare/

At any rate, the problem with a "dog eat dog" world is that

1. It tends to be suboptimal (cooperation tends to result in MUCH higher utility payoffs)
2. It rewards a disproportionate amount of luck (a lot of people hit bad times through no fault of their own, and plenty of people get ahead by simply being born to the right family)
3. It's morally inconsistent (odds are you have had a ton of help in your life that others did not)

So, again, it boils down to reality vs. ideology.

[Gmanyo]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Why is this on national news?

[ssbmchamp]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

We would be nowhere if it were an everyone for themselves scenario. Sometimes it takes two people to lift something up. I think you are taking for granted the system we have that works on the support of everyone in society working together, providing services for each other and the like. You can't wish a more individual system just because not EVERYONE is the high roller, and that some people are slacking. That's just the diversity we live in.

You're still dodging the fact that statistically there's a better solution than taking an arm from someone who's taken an arm. Repeating the same irrational mentality that fueled it to happen in the first place- while it does give them exactly a taste of their own medicine- does not confront them with the fact that it shouldn't be done. There's more of a lesson to be learned other than to enlighten to the fact that "Hey man, that shit hurts. How does it feel to you?". Something more productive and of positive outcome is available, rather than just childishly responsive.

For the record I'm not a "high roller" and neither are my parents so although I have it better than some people, I'm certainly not some rich kid looking down on everyone else saying "you should make as much as me". Anyways, You guys keep showing me statistics of how my ways aren't as effective. The problem I'm having with that is that it's based on the past. Times have changed as well as people. It might sound unreasonable for me to say this but you can show me as many of these past statistics as you want saying this method doesn't work but the fact of the matter is you can't accurately tell me this unless we actually implemented it into TODAY'S society and you showed me numbers from that. Since that will 99% never happen neither of you can sit here and tell me it 100% wont work because you have no proof. I'm not saying it will 100% work, but my argument from the start has simply been to give it a shot.

Please read this first and respond:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

http://dailynewsfinder.com/2012/11/21/facts-and-myths-about-welfare/

At any rate, the problem with a "dog eat dog" world is that

1. It tends to be suboptimal (cooperation tends to result in MUCH higher utility payoffs)
2. It rewards a disproportionate amount of luck (a lot of people hit bad times through no fault of their own, and plenty of people get ahead by simply being born to the right family)
3. It's morally inconsistent (odds are you have had a ton of help in your life that others did not)

So, again, it boils down to reality vs. ideology.

All I have to say regarding this article is that people find loop holes. Not just to this, but everything. If you take it all away, there is nothing to find a loop hole for. During a "bad time" for someone guess what: some employer is ALWAYS hiring, idc if its fast food, washing dishes, picking up trash...etc. There's always some form of work available so there's no excuse.

[Garquillex]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

For the record I'm not a "high roller" and neither are my parents so although I have it better than some people, I'm certainly not some rich kid looking down on everyone else saying "you should make as much as me". Anyways, You guys keep showing me statistics of how my ways aren't as effective. The problem I'm having with that is that it's based on the past. Times have changed as well as people. It might sound unreasonable for me to say this but you can show me as many of these past statistics as you want saying this method doesn't work but the fact of the matter is you can't accurately tell me this unless we actually implemented it into TODAY'S society and you showed me numbers from that. Since that will 99% never happen neither of you can sit here and tell me it 100% wont work because you have no proof. I'm not saying it will 100% work, but my argument from the start has simply been to give it a shot.

I can recommend a few countries for you to move to...
they're all shitholes but they have what you want

guess what: some employer is ALWAYS hiring, idc if its fast food, washing dishes, picking up trash...etc. There's always some form of work available so there's no excuse.

There are more unemployed people than jobs available
and the majority of low-level jobs aren't enough to live alone on unless it's full-time, which from what I've seen, are not that common in low-level jobs

[Reincarnate]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

For the record I'm not a "high roller" and neither are my parents so although I have it better than some people, I'm certainly not some rich kid looking down on everyone else saying "you should make as much as me". Anyways, You guys keep showing me statistics of how my ways aren't as effective. The problem I'm having with that is that it's based on the past. Times have changed as well as people. It might sound unreasonable for me to say this but you can show me as many of these past statistics as you want saying this method doesn't work but the fact of the matter is you can't accurately tell me this unless we actually implemented it into TODAY'S society and you showed me numbers from that. Since that will 99% never happen neither of you can sit here and tell me it 100% wont work because you have no proof. I'm not saying it will 100% work, but my argument from the start has simply been to give it a shot.


All I have to say regarding this article is that people find loop holes. Not just to this, but everything. If you take it all away, there is nothing to find a loop hole for. During a "bad time" for someone guess what: some employer is ALWAYS hiring, idc if its fast food, washing dishes, picking up trash...etc. There's always some form of work available so there's no excuse.

Aaaand it took a few posts but it finally came out.

This is one of the biggest problems with the conservative mindset today: "I don't care what the data says."

You completely skew the burden of proof with statements like that. You've already made up your mind and believe what you think is true even if the data contradicts. Ask yourself this: What would need to happen in order for you to change your stance? If the answer is "Nothing, really," then that's a huge problem.

The notion that "times have changed" is a weak argument considering that a lot of the data I just showed you was very recent. Same goes for "loop holes." It's unfalsifiable. No matter what the data says, you can always say, "I don't care, people are just fudging the numbers" even if there's no proof that such a thing is occurring.

None of it is founded it reality. It's all ideology, and I think that's a serious problem when we have real problems to solve, here.

[Reincarnate]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Also: What you say about jobs isn't true. Right now aggregate demand is quite low relative to supply. And even when people do find work, it tends to be very low-paying with few to no benefits.

Out of curiosity, what do your parents do / how much do they make? Did you pay for your own schooling? Did you have the opportunity to go to the doctor / dentist regularly? Are you a white male?

You don't really have to answer those, but my point here is that a lot of the good fortune in our lives is wholly dependent on the family we're born into. A lot of people work very hard and yet they'll never taste financial success/security/wealth simply because the mobility isn't there.

Anyways this is getting way off topic now -- people feel free to turn it back to relevance. XD

[Nullifidian]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

ssbmchamp, I don't get it why people like you (if you say you're not a rich kid) think it's a better idea to WANT a survival of the fittest society? If you're not rich, you benefit a fuckton from things such as universal healthcare and if you say you work very hard you're bound to make use of it in the near future. It's weird that there are people who are on the lower end of the income scale that think it's better for them. It's that uneducated baseless "DAT DERR IS MA MUNNI YA AINT TOUCHIN NO NOTHIN!" mentality that works counterproductive for improving your (and everybody else's for that matter) quality of life.

[ssbmchamp]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Also: What you say about jobs isn't true. Right now aggregate demand is quite low relative to supply. And even when people do find work, it tends to be very low-paying with few to no benefits.

Out of curiosity, what do your parents do / how much do they make? Did you pay for your own schooling? Did you have the opportunity to go to the doctor / dentist regularly? Are you a white male?

You don't really have to answer those, but my point here is that a lot of the good fortune in our lives is wholly dependent on the family we're born into. A lot of people work very hard and yet they'll never taste financial success/security/wealth simply because the mobility isn't there.

Anyways this is getting way off topic now -- people feel free to turn it back to relevance. XD

I know that I don't have it the worst, but I also wasn't born into a rich family so I understand the values of hard work and money. I'm not arguing that case because I know there is always someone worse off than me. I'm still in the process of paying off student loans but I have acquired an average paying job from my schooling which allows me to pay my bills.

Again I don't know why you guys are blowing this up because I've clearly stated it's just my opinion. I can pretty much guarantee anything I said will never happen. Maybe in other countries (which I'm not about to move to) but not here. Again I'm not denying I'm disagreeing with your numbers, but it's just my opinion and something I'd like to see tried. It prolly makes no difference whether I say it or not but I wasn't saying bring back the identical system of the past where if you steal you get your arm cut off. There would be excessive planning on all this to determine, strict, yet fair punishments. I'm not saying my way would be 100% right, so stop acting like I'm saying your ways are wrong and mine is the only right way cause it's not like that at all.

[Nullifidian]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Yeah but the frustrating thing about your opinion is that it's denying statistics/evidence etc without any solid argument against it (hey man fuck those facts etc but it's ok for me to say that because it's you know, just my opinion man). And don't say it doesn't matter because you influence people when you say shit like that (even if it influences in the slightest, something like that can trickle down to more and more people).

Also, did you just say getting your arm cut off is a fair punishment? lmao

[Reincarnate]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Again I'm not denying I'm disagreeing with your numbers, but it's just my opinion and something I'd like to see tried.

But that's the thing: It has been tried and the stats/studies/numbers/data don't place any of it in a very positive light.

It prolly makes no difference whether I say it or not but I wasn't saying bring back the identical system of the past where if you steal you get your arm cut off. There would be excessive planning on all this to determine, strict, yet fair punishments.

In this thread you've said things like "welfare recipients deserve to die" under certain (fairly slack) circumstances, which I'd argue is a far, far cry from "fair." Or paddling the hell out of a bully -- what does that achieve? Many people who bully are bullied themselves -- this sort of attitude just perpetuates the cycle and teaches that person that the only way to deal with things is with brute force, which we find doesn't generate very healthy results.

There comes a point where it's no longer a matter of opinion. If you want to say "I like ice cream," sure, that's your opinion. There's no harm in that. But there is harm when you say "It's my opinion that we should invoke all these harsh punishments to teach people respect, and live in a dog-eat-dog society." Such a claim requires that you back it up since it's involving people other than yourself. If you can't back up such an opinion with anything substantive (or if reality outright contradicts your stance), it should make you critically re-evaluate your stance to see what matches up better to reality.

Again, would you rather have a society where there are fewer bullies and less psychological drama, or one where there are more bullies that we can "get even" with?

[ssbmchamp]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

Again, would you rather have a society where there are fewer bullies and less psychological drama, or one where there are more bullies that we can "get even" with?

I don't see how you can say my way would create more bullies. There would be the same number if not fewer. A bully is someone who picks on/hurts another individual without for no reason. The people doing the paddling are NOT considered bullies because under a contract they would have the power to do so, given a rightful cause such as someone misbehaving in a threatening manner. I agree that bullies are often bullied themselves but I believe that is due to the age group they hang around, not the people in authority that would have the right to use a paddle.

[adlp]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

i leave for a couple hours and come back why are the same people still posting in this thread

[Reincarnate]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

I don't see how you can say my way would create more bullies. There would be the same number if not fewer. A bully is someone who picks on/hurts another individual without for no reason. The people doing the paddling are NOT considered bullies because under a contract they would have the power to do so, given a rightful cause such as someone misbehaving in a threatening manner. I agree that bullies are often bullied themselves but I believe that is due to the age group they hang around, not the people in authority that would have the right to use a paddle.

Short and easy to read/understand:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/08/16/why-shouldnt-you-spank-your-kids-heres-9-reasons/

http://www.uncommon-parenting.com/2009/10/spanking-be-gone/

There are serious problems with your logic and you can't simply continue to ignore them and claim it's "just a matter of opinion." It's not opinion if what you're saying is patently false.

Also, the sort of authority you're speaking of has already been tried (see: the 1950's/1960's for some obvious examples). It's still used widely in, well, shitty countries all over the world.

[Twomorelovely]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

i hope after this ssbmchamp reconsiders the way he thinks about these things

[ssbmchamp]

Re: So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

i hope after this ssbmchamp reconsiders the way he thinks about these things

Don't you worry about what I think.