TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

I really hate it when tupac uses 'social engineering' in a sentence. I don't think he understands what it means.

[tupacodaman]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

I really hate it when tupac uses 'social engineering' in a sentence. I don't think he understands what it means.

nope I don't get it at all

[Gun92]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

This type of bickering really isn't necessary, nor will it produce results. Just drop it and move on so we can get a new game going and let this tragedy of a game die already.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

Gonna start this with a post I typed up yesterday before the humans stupidly gave away the final day's wolf instawin without even requiring all of the wolves to participate. Here it is:

First, I'd like to point out the foolishness of backing manti instead of me just because he's manti. His ideas he was putting forth were wrong and many of you knew this, but many of you fell in line anyway. So many, in fact, that I was forced to also fall in line to not be lynched, even though I was more confident of A2P's humanity than of manti's (shame A2P wouldn't have been able to help me much if had come out to him instead). Do you see how stupid that is?

Second, yes, I came out to manti, but I had already made the observation that if he was red, the game was unwinnable, due to the sheep being unwilling to lynch their great leader. From my perspective, the only way I could win the game was if Manti was green, so I decided to just assume he was. No loss to coming out to him, since the game was already lost anyway. And it doesn't help things that manti was the only living player with a fully functioning brain stem during day 3 to notice that I was blue at that point without me even telling him. I wasn't going to live on through to day 4 no matter how I played it. And anyway, my only other alternative to avoid getting lynched day 3 would have been to publicly reveal myself. I did consider this, but I decided against it as it would ensure my dying that night. I figured that if manti was human (as I was forced to trust he was), I had a good shot at living through the night.

Third, why did no one recognize that the wolves shouldn't have killed me unless they knew I was blue, as to the untrained and unprivileged eye, it appeared as though I would still be a potential lynch. Manti revealing he knew I was blue should have implicated him in my death, and emerald revealing he knew as well should also have indicated he might have been behind my death (even though this idea is wrong). This is one of the few cases where the person who died can be a clue to who killed them and why, and you mooks failed to notice it!

Fourth, why do you people think I'm a wolf? I advised more than a few of you to go back and read an older game where I'm a wolf. The way I am here, this is not how I am as a wolf. And don't even pull the "oh well you might be changing your style!" No. I'm not that good of a wolf. Please, seriously, go to the history thread and look up any game where I was a wolf. They're all similar and they ALL are wildly different than my human personality. Even games where I won or managed to do something good as a wolf are still VERY different than my normal style. How about next game I act like this, instead of trying to kill me, you back me up blindly like many of you did for manti this game.

Fifth, you guys need to get better at playing the game. Not only at reading behavior and actions of other players, but in knowing your own behavior and actions. For example, Ac1 getting WAY defensive day 1 after a single vote and a pretty bad accusation from me. Going as far as saying "I'm voting for someone else just to save myself" when he was in no danger of dying at that point (had a single vote on him if I recall). Another example is tupac tying himself to manti. This wound up getting him killed, as I had figured manti as a wolf, and presumed that tupac being tied to him meant tupac was a wolf. Even before I had given up on trying to get manti lynched, I figured that tupac would be the better lynch (I only aimed to get manti lynched day 2 because I feared that it would be impossible later on in the game after myself and fiction and anyone else with confidence was dead). And when tupac came back human, it even made manti fall at least a few rungs on my suspect list.

Sixth, sorry for choosing such bad lynch targets early on, and being a contributing factor in A2P getting the lynch. I probably shouldn't apologize for this, however, since I wasn't the only one voting for Ac1 to die. All in all, I was able to truly identify two wolves correctly, u84 and manti, so I wouldn't say I did too badly. Would have rather been wrong about manti though, since him being a wolf led to us losing. And u84, he would have been my lynch choice on day 3 (if I hadn't almost been lynched) or 4 (if I hadn't been wolfed). I was almost completely confident in u84 for some reason, so much so that lynching him and the report saying 3 wolves wouldn't have helped me at all, so I was saving him for the "last day". Clarinet I was toying with being a wolf by the end of the last day there, but I didn't really consider it all that seriously. The last one, I forget who at the moment (writing this postgame post in advance of thread going up), I had instead been completely confident of his humanity from the beginning of the game. Ironically, talking to manti about suspects, he got me into seeing the angle where he could be a wolf, but again, even though I was toying with the idea by the end, I wasn't taking it too seriously. My serious pick was u84, manti, ruritsu and someone else. Before tupac died, he would have been the fourth haha.

And now that that's out there, I'll move on to the stuff I just typed up as responses:

LVP goes to the ENTIRE HUMAN TEAM, for sucking hard. Yes, you lost the seer night one, but you could've still won if you didn't blindly follow anyone who was vocal enough to try to lead. Honorable mention goes to Afrobean for basically setting Manti up to live much longer than he should have. Also, the irony about you ranting about blues leading the humans to victory, and then failing to do so yourself was amazing.

**** you, bro. I was one of the few humans not doing stupid ****, and I identified two wolves. One of them I was killed before I could attempt to kill and the other was unkillable.

Manti didn't do **** really to justify his win, really, other than amassing a throng of clueless greens beneath him. The plebes were just too afraid to lynch their glorious leader, so no matter how many of us with brains could figure him out, we'd be unable to outnumber the blind and lynch him.

afro, you need to learn to be less stubborn/less retarded.

Huh? I was retarded? I identified two wolves. You were lynched because you suck at this game (and in doing so, tied yourself to a wolf), not because I'm "retarded".

As for my stubbornness: most of the stubbornness I played with wasn't a detriment. But there was one area where I absolutely should have been stubborn that I wasn't. Manti. I should have stuck to my guns from day 2 on, even if it led to my death, since my death was apparently unavoidable.

you should have asked for logs between that person and whoever he would claim to be seer.

#1: Why would a seer'd green come to me and reveal who the seer is? If the seer looked at me, he would come to me directly because I was blue. Remember: I was a different role than anyone else last game.

#2: Logs can easily be faked or staged. Two wolves could have a full real aim conversation but plot out a fake progression of the conversation in advance.

your "social engineering" was a HUGE EPIC FAIL.

Considering my official guess on DAY TWO of the four wolves nailed two of them, I'd say I did a whole hell of a lot better than most at identifying wolves. Had I had a backing of sheep like manti, I might have been able to win this game.

it's just downright wreckless to vote out the people who are offering the most sound strategy for humans

I pointed out ad nauseum how almost every seer plan manti was giving out was flat-out stupid. Sound strategy my ass.

I had manti as a suspect

;_;

Where the **** were you day 2?

I'm really pissed a couple of you guys came out of the woodwork on day 3 when it was no longer my prerogative to lynch manti. Not that we would have been able to pull it off anyway, since manti would have just pulled his sheep team into line to throw someone else under the bus. And if his sheep weren't enough to save him, he still had 3 wolves who could assist in killing off me or you, A2P, instead.

Manti said BDN slipped and gave away his role through his posts and conversations on AIM. I missed it.

Well then, Manti's full of **** because as soon as I died and he knew I learned all the roles, he was trying to skirt the rules to get me to reveal if the seer was alive or not or give unintentional hints as to who it is/was. You know, the kind of **** Tass used to do in the day. Not breaking the rules per se, but still trying to get around them. Oh wait. I forgot. None of you played back then and you're all completely unwilling to read old games too.

didn't you guys get a good read that I wasn't a wolf?

The only thing I noticed was that you were tied to manti. I was confident that manti was a wolf, so I was confident that you were also a wolf since you were clearly paired on your end. Basically, I figured it was a wolf/wolf relationship, not a wolf/sheep one.

[I] know how to read others to determine if they're red or blue

How many wolves did you identify? We all know you clearly missed manti, but did you get even ONE of the others right?

So this game, fine, I messed up thinking manti was not a wolf. But we all did, or else we would have lynched him.

No... there were plenty among us who were suspicious of him, just that neutral people plus his team of sheep outnumbered those of us who were confident enough to vote for him.

but I will still go by "data" and "numbers" over player interactions... a 91% chance of success is much greater than the just slightly greater than chance chance you have for getting someone's color right through your talks with them.

I identified 2 wolves using basic social engineering. None of my psychic reports helped me identify a wolf. In fact, it hurt me in two cases. First, when you, tupac, returned green, it made manti drop down on my list of suspects, when without it, I probably would have still been hard on manti (lol) the next day. On top of this, my erratic actions on my final day tipped my hand and manti identified me as blue without me even telling him, meaning my being blue literally got me killed. Had I been green during this game instead of blue, I actually would have been better off.

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

manti's relationship with tupac was clearly wolf-sheep. I considered both of them being wolves but I don't think manti would have let tupac be so vocal had that been the case. Manti is very on top of his wolf game despite his inability to play below the radar. Allowing tupac to be vocal would bring unnecessary attention to both of them. I really doubt manti would allow that sort of behaviour in his team. I was really surprised when you told me your suspicion of manti dropped substantially when you learned of tupac's color.

I also considered tupac being the only of wolf out of the two.. but that would imply that he was using manti and that was clearly not the case. It was quite the opposite, in fact.

Tupac died because we needed to get to manti. Baby steps for the other players, if anything.

[Panda Express]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

So that was a really bad first game for me, I feel like such a disappointment D:

My theories were completely off, and my suspicions were baseless. (Although I suspected Clari of wolf from the start because she was the first to always ask me anything, but I shrugged this off as kindness :P)

[travman301]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

Woah I was in this game? XD My bad....

I didn't expect to get subbed in. There were like 5 people ahead of me.

[Makilaz]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

Woah I was in this game? XD My bad....

I didn't expect to get subbed in. There were like 5 people ahead of me.

All but one person were subbed in already. The last person ahead of you also hadn't logged in for about a week.

[clarinet89]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

I usually talk to new players and subbed in players right away regardless of what role I am.

I also feel that had I been human, I probably would have leaned toward the afro side of the arguments. But who knows what manti would have tried to do to me, so idk.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

I'll admit, Fic knows my wolf game too well and Afro was able to pretty much able to pick me out.

I used the risk strategy to garner support, and I got Tupac and emerald from it, as well as a couple other people who agreed, but were unwilling to put full faith behind me (A2P), (Vic).

Using Emerald and Tupac, I was able to manipulate them and use them for additional votes and suspects, and i got you guys to pick them off instead of myself

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

booo ****ing yaahhh

[clarinet89]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

can someone define social engineering? i have no idea what that is.

[NFD]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=social+engineering

[clarinet89]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

ok well i thank you. i didnt realize it was a real phrase. i just thought it was a made up way of saying something.

[Panda Express]

Re: TWG LXXXIX: Postgame

Can I also ask why Syhto is so critical of how bad we were when she frickin helped lead a lynchfest on AC1 on one of the most absurd things ever?

You didn't do much either, chica...