POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemented?

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Yeah, I would suggest a spreadsheet, and said spreadsheet could be in a sticky like History of TWG (which is horribly lacking in updates, btw). And yeah, no official sigs like pips had, but if you wanna put your points in your sig then go ahead (not like they can be stopped. Hell, we could do it right now if we wanted).

And if we do keep track of team wins only, I think that should be retroactive, since we can just go to the history of TWG thread or somebody's spreadsheet (Tass has one, no?) and get that info easily. However, I don't like the idea of having the point system just be a count of how many times your team has won simply because that's not descriptive enough. The more limited the stats are, the less we really know about a player. Like I said about basketball, if you look just at how many points a guy gets, you skew what people think. If you keep track of points gotten, overall wins, block shots from the other team, time with the ball, and all sorts of other stats, you get a better view of the person.

I like my system because, yes, it gives points for some selfish things (ie: staying alive), but if you play only for yourself and not for the team, you will get less points overall because there are more team-based points than solo-based ones. Also, it gives points for doing really well but not actually winning. Like those few games where a single wolf survives until the last or next to last day. Yeah, their team may have lost, but they did damned good to stay alive that long without anybody to help them. Looking JUST at team wins isn't fair to the people who try and do well but their team fails to do the same.

[nforcer06164]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Another thing to keep in mind, eb, is that a point system will make the game much more complicated than it needs to be. When a new idea is incorporated into the game, half of the players may be worried in a fashion similar to, "Well, how many points will I/the wolves/my fellow green etc. get for doing this?", flooding the thread with posts concerning the points rather than the game. And based on recent game activity, anything that takes the focus off the game and onto other things is not good at all.

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

eb that's what I don't like. points shouldn't be about how good an individual is, they should be about how good they are at helping their team win. If you guard someone, you guard someone, people will give you props. No need for points. I don't really think points are necessary at all, but if they are going to be implemented, then only for team wins. Too much bragging potential any other way.

[Afrobean]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Ok, eb convinced me that it really doesn't matter. It doesn't truly affect gameplay, so long as points for new roles are discussed pregame to avoid in-game clutter.

Honestly, I've stopped caring all together. Let's just get the next game going.

[Tps222]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Talisman, whats wrong with bragging rights. You earn them, flaunt them if you want.

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

not saying you can't brag, but points codify it and make it more "official". It'll just add bitterness to arguments about who is better than who. Points are a bad attempt to quantify skill or something, and I think it just leads to stratification that the game doesn't need. People know who's good and who's not, no need to make "skill" a variable and start assigning it values.

[HansSky]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

MY OPINION:

I don't really care.

Main reason: internet points=serious business

[stretchypanda]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

The trouble with the points system is undeserved value can be placed on people who play, and live up to posting standards that have been set, but still don't contribute. I think, rather than points, the MVP award should be reinstated, and given to anyone who contributed to a victory. I.E: if any number wolves survive to win a game, all three are listed on a sticky or something for that game, with a brief description of how awesome those people are. Or if a blue picks correctly, leading to an eventual human victory, s/he is given credit.

This will serve two purposes. One: it will give well-deserved credit to hard-working players. Two: it will encourage players to be active, thoughtful, creative, and respectful.

Since the MVP/Pip thing doesn't exactly answer this, I vote no change.

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Ok, yea I don't play TWG but someday I would like to...

I really like eb's idea.

The only thing that I would change is that I wouldn't update the points for like a game or two. But, this has ups and downs. Positive: Keeps the point system, of which I am in favor of. Waiting a few days could also give TWG or the host some time to figure out who really deserves what points and things. Also, it doesn't show how good they have been playing recently which can be a positive and a negative thing. As for negatives, this wouldn't be kept up to date, and as I said before - it doesn't show how good they have been playing recently.

Now, that isn't really much, but it would have a big impact on the point system which just might be what is needed.

[evilbutterfly]

Re: RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP sys

Ok, eb convinced me that it really doesn't matter.

Here's how:


evilbutterfly87: well still, it's not like the points will change anything
evilbutterfly87: I just like statistics
evilbutterfly87: there's no reason for the point system
evilbutterfly87: but there's no real reason against it either
evilbutterfly87: it's all just a matter of whether you or I care about seeing stats or not
Afrobean16: the points will give tass one more thing to brag about
Afrobean16: he already brags about enough shit
Afrobean16: I don't think we should give him anything else
Afrobean16: especially when it's not even neeeded
evilbutterfly87: That's the thing, Tass is the only one not lazy enough to gather and do the stats
evilbutterfly87: I want the point system because then he'll make stats for me and I can be like "well I've done this better than you, and bob owns you in this."
Afrobean16: yea, well I kinda rubbed it in his face that he was a terrible wolf
Afrobean16: and he just kinda respnded "ya I know, I do alliances though and I don't care about other stuff"
evilbutterfly87: *shrug*
Afrobean16: exactly what Tass's response would be to you telling him how you own him at some things and others own him at other things
evilbutterfly87: I don't care. I want the numbers to see where I stand.
evilbutterfly87: Seriously, it's just opinions here.
evilbutterfly87: I think the stat system should be there, and if you don't like it, just ignore it.
Afrobean16: ok, that makes senseAfrobean16: but it does complicate things more than they need to be
Afrobean16: you gotta admit that
evilbutterfly87: *shrug* Tass would keep track of it, since he humps the leg of statistics.
Afrobean16: indeed

...

Afrobean16: even though I'd still prefer to not have it so Tass has nothing new to brag about
evilbutterfly87: rofl, forget him, he'll brag as much or as little as he wants, regardless
evilbutterfly87: he already has those stats, which is his own little point system
Afrobean16: yea you're right
Afrobean16: but he skews those stats however he feels
evilbutterfly87: which is why a formal point system is ownage


So basically, if you don't like reading convos: If we implement the stat system, it'll mean minimal more work, and people who want it will have it, and everybody else can just ignore it completely. I just think it'll be cool to see statistics about things, and I know other people feel this way.

And if we implement stats, we would obviously sort things out beforehand, and stats would mean absolutely nothing (just like pips), so it's not like "You can't play in TWG until you get 50 points in jTWG" or anything, it's just a number that shows how much you've done according to a little list. It's not a big deal, which is why it doesn't matter, which is why you shouldn't be so hard against it. The only thing it would change is it would make people more active if they care about points (and whether you admit it or not, most of you care about points deep down). If they don't care about points, then adding it isn't going to phase them, they'll just ignore it.

Kinda like when pips were around, some people didn't have the pip thing in their signature because they didn't care about them. Points won't harm anything.

For now though, I think more people are concerned with just starting the next game.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Guys... someone mentioned earlier that you all were missing the point as to why TWC even considered a point system, and even now considers a point system. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH E-PENISES.

It has to do with positive reenforcement for activity. Our problem is with people being overly inactive, and a point system rewards people for both being active and for being helpful. The reasons listed in the thread are valid, but the reasons listed against a point system are equally valid. We did away with Pips because it forced individualism and messed with the team nature of the game. If the point system is about "who is the best", it will do the exact same thing.

And, in regards to my spreadsheet... it keeps track of every person's survival in each game, their team win in each game, and a totals page. If you want a copy of it, just ask me. This is everything through this past game, listed with total team wins 1st, then if there is a tie, highest percentage (most wins in least games played) is highest. Also pip wins are listed, but have nothing to do with order:

PLAYERS Wins Games Percentage Survivals
Tasselfoot 12 19 0.632 7
Kilgamayan 11 17 0.647 6
Lightdarkness 11 18 0.611 6
BlahBlah18 11 19 0.579 7
JurseyRider734 9 10 0.900 5
Kefit 8 12 0.667 4
Afrobean 7 11 0.636 5
Talisman 7 11 0.636 3
Alainbryden 7 12 0.583 3
nforcer06164 7 12 0.583 5
GuidoHunter 7 14 0.500 3
Chardish 6 9 0.667 2
Roopert 6 9 0.667 4
WhorliChan 6 9 0.667 5
QreepyBORIS 6 12 0.500 2
evilbutterfly 6 14 0.429 2
Tps222 6 14 0.429 2
HansSky 6 15 0.400 3
Mead1 5 10 0.500 4
flypie743 5 12 0.417 2
aperson 4 7 0.571 0
The_Q 4 7 0.571 4
CypherToorima 4 8 0.500 4
ImEric12 4 8 0.500 4
Flux_ 3 4 0.750 2
Eyespewgreekfire 3 6 0.500 1
CStarFlare 2 2 1.000 1
hydrojakep 2 2 1.000 1
Matthew4444 2 2 1.000 1
dAnceguy117 2 3 0.667 1
Snapps 2 4 0.500 1
stretchypanda 2 6 0.333 1
Omeganitros 2 7 0.286 1
Banditcom 1 1 1.000 0
Charlotte21 1 1 1.000 0
Demon_of_the_Comet 1 1 1.000 1
flawofhumanity 1 1 1.000 0
Kagome 1 1 1.000 0
M-A-C 1 1 1.000 1
Tasuke 1 1 1.000 1
TSAGod 1 1 1.000 0
zildjian113 1 1 1.000 0
Emccky 1 2 0.500 0
FishFishRevolution 1 2 0.500 1
JenovaSephiroth 1 2 0.500 0
Kenzya 1 2 0.500 1
Lupin_the_3rd 1 2 0.500 1
Moogy 1 2 0.500 0
Spheroid 1 2 0.500 0
Torlock 1 2 0.500 0
Tsuteto 1 2 0.500 1
Vashthestampede0987 1 2 0.500 0
87x 1 3 0.333 0
Aleco 1 3 0.333 0
Deltro333111 1 3 0.333 0
Gamepro17616 1 3 0.333 0
MreSqueek 1 3 0.333 1
Neonatrias 1 3 0.333 1
Cenright 1 4 0.250 0
djshox 1 4 0.250 1
Jpec07 0 1 0.000 0
SpaceBoy492 0 1 0.000 0
tnyhwk900 0 1 0.000 0
Verruckter 0 1 0.000 0
Psychis25 0 2 0.000 0
Sleeplessdragn 0 4 0.000 0




Finally, if anyone wants statistical evidence as to why any one player is good or bad, ask me. I can provide it.


Basically... your reasons for wanting a point system is not what it should be. And eb, feel free to talk to me more about a more detailed system, that encorporates activity as well. Get it working, it could be implimented.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Also... my spreadsheet is not skewed in any way whatsoever, and fuck off for trying to say that. Everything I keep track of (and potentially would keep track of in a point system) is 100% accurate. People doubting that would do multiple things... Make people not want the system, not trust the system, it would piss me off and make me not want to do it (or at least not show it to anyone). All bad things for everyone else.


Finally, why is EVERYTHING revolved around me. A point system is (again) to push people to not be inactive... not for me to brag about or for anyone else to either. Team wins is a perfectly good way of keeping track of how well you play. Just look at the top 4. The one anomaly (IMO) is Jurs... but I can't really explain why her percentage is so high.

So, for the last time... Point system will only be implimented if we can make it to push people to be more active. Very few care to have a point system to further their e-penis. Even I don't. I'm quite content with my level of TWG-penis.

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

Also... my spreadsheet is not skewed in any way whatsoever, and $*%# off for trying to say that.

You don't understand what he's saying. It's statistics. Like I said in my basketball example, people can choose to stress or forget whichever stats they want to make themselves look better. It's a simple enough idea that pretty much any statistic can be gathered to serve any purpose. Obviously, if you're presenting statistics concerning yourself you'll choose ones that show you in the best light. It's just the way we humans roll, yo.

Finally, why is EVERYTHING revolved around me.

Our discussion was not "Why Tass wants the point system" it was why Afro and I felt the way we do. Part of his feelings are that you would brag more (because, if you couldn't tell, we REALLY FREAKING HATE IT WHEN YOU DO THAT) and part of my feelings are that I would have more to counter-brag with. It's not that everything is focused on you, it's that you annoy us, and each of us had different views on how the point system would affect your levels of annoyingness. We talked about other things with the point system, you just happen to be in that part of the convo.

PS: Post a screenshot of your spreadsheet, since these forums apparently don't allow tabbed things.

[stretchypanda]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

I sort of think that if you really care about points and letting everyone know how awesome you are, do like Tass and make a long sig about your many TWG accomplishments.

Then even people outside of the TWG forum can see how cool you are.

I'm being totally serious.

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

You see, Amanda, that's why I want the point system made official. When it's official, some officially appointed person will do all the stat gathering for me and I can still be lazy.