Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

[Arch0wl]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

is it true that you and darkmage are the same person??

No. We are very different people.

I'm not friends with him any longer. Our personalities have changed a lot.

[noname219]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Can you elaborate on the negative impacts when playing rhythm games for an extended period of time ? What can be done to avoid injuries ?

[Arch0wl]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

1) i get this impression that the whole rhythm gaming scene (ffr, ddr, stepmania, osu, kbo (i don't even know what kbo is)) was much, much bigger back in the 2000's decade than it is now. was it seriously a really big deal back then, or is it just one of those things that everyone nowadays thinks was better "back in the old days"? like for ddr, did people actually play ddr competitively on a local scale?

2) was it like the main attention seeker of the arcade, or what?

3) would it have been common to see people practising on the thing for hours on end?

4) would your random person who stumbled into an arcade have been enthralled by it? and not just ddr, but was ffr a big deal at its peak? (just generally, i don't really need intricate details of ffr history)

5) would it be daft to compare the popularity of osu to something like chess, where professional players exist and get paid off!?

6) oh and how much of this is country dependent? like i get that osu has a large japanese fan base and presumably an american one, but is it entirely localised? was it wholly an american thing?

If you don't mind, I separated your questions into numbers because they deal with separate things.

1)

Yes, the DDR scene was far bigger than it is now. The biggest it's even been was probably in 2000-2002 when DDRFreak was at its peak.

Here are some videos to give you an idea of the scale that tournaments used to be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68uvBdWOYPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY_SjexmwLY

These tournaments would happen regularly. This is scale on the size of Rocky Mount 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdcWC4msHMI

...but Rocky Mount 8 was a national tournament that took a lot of organization and promotion -- these tournaments in 2000-2001 would happen every other month, more or less.

At its peak, DDRFreak was in the top 1000 on Alexa, I think. (lower is better.) Last time I checked, it dropped down to lower than 100,000. For comparison, my personal website (arch0wl.com) than consisted solely of a forum that I ran when I was 15 managed to get higher than 100,000.

2)

Usually, DDR was the main attention seeker of the arcade, but not always; it depended on the clientele. Some arcades are very much fighting game arcades, so in the event that a new fighting game came out that would be on display. For casual arcade customers, they are very much attracted to shooting games -- so if some high-end shooting game existed, that would be the first thing you saw. But DDR is such a spectacle that, usually, it was on display somewhere. At CyberZone at Ingram Park Mall which closed down a long time ago, DDR was next to the plexiglass window, so anyone passing by the arcade would see you play.

3)

Perhaps at its peak or on weekends. Usually though if you went during a weekday you'd have the machine to yourself. Bar culture parallels arcade culture in this respect -- the more people go out or have a culture of going out, the more active arcades would be. Here in San Antonio, bars/clubs are dead on any other day other than Fri/Sat. I hate it and I'm moving to NYC to get out of this culture, but that's a separate thing entirely.

4)

Random arcade people usually thought one of two things when seeing a DDR machine:

A. They were astonished by DDR skill above 7s. 10-footer songs didn't really register to a normal person as substantially more difficult than 7s because they can't tell the difference. All of it looks really fast to an inexperienced observer.

B. They thought it was "gay", which connotes something like "dorky in a flamboyant way."

In general, the more rednecky or gender-traditional your area, the more you saw (B) happen instead of (A). But as players got older the new archetype of an ITG player was... a lot more jock-like and aggressive than it used to be, so I think people who fall into the (B) camp backed off. Prior to ITG, the archetype of a DDR player was a person with whatever emo/scene/punk/goth/etc. hair was in style at the time + those stupid tripp pants you can buy at Hot Topic.

5)

Online numbers don't reflect this adequately since chess includes offline play, whereas osu is nearly exclusively online.

Chess is extremely institutionalized and played in schools across the world. In fact, it survives almost exclusively because of its institutionalization and because so much tradition/social status is behind it; you are considered a genius in some respect if you are really good at chess. If this social status didn't exist, chess wouldn't have the popularity it does. There is no game-related reason that chess should be more popular than Go or Shogi, it's purely due to its institutional favor that it is more popular.

6)

DDR, PIU, and all sorts of rhythm games have went through varying degrees of popularity in different regions of the world at different times. PIU was popular in Mexico well after DDR went on a decline in America, for example.

Other information about the history of rhythm games

If you have free time (like, an hour) I have a pretty extensive lecture on the history of rhythm games here: https://soundcloud.com/bigmacthugnas...needs-feedback

I've been meaning for the longest time to transcribe it, and my girlfriend even offered, but neither of us got around to it. So if you just want to listen to it, that's an option.

There's also this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3E...ew?usp=sharing but it's REALLY old and I wrote it when I was a far less competent writer than I am now. I need to revise it.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Can you elaborate on the negative impacts when playing rhythm games for an extended period of time ? What can be done to avoid injuries ?

The risks would be equivalent to the risks a programmer or writer or piano player faces: carpal tunnel. Any ways to mitigate carpal tunnel would apply here.

Frankly, I don't know much about preventing carpal tunnel because I am pretty yolo about it and because most of my thoughts about injury pertain to injuries I might get while deadlifting or squatting, since deadlifting can fuck up your back if you do it wrong.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

had rhythm games used more western mainstream music in rhythm games(ddr, iidx, pop'n, etc) would you say that their popularity would have sustained for a longer period of time than it did?

would dj have had more success and iterations released had the game been initially released a couple of years earlier?

when it comes to physically interactive gaming(kinect, that ps3 thing, wii) do you see there being a second wave of popularity in the future when the gameplay is better/more responsive?

[Arch0wl]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

1) had rhythm games used more western mainstream music in rhythm games(ddr, iidx, pop'n, etc) would you say that their popularity would have sustained for a longer period of time than it did?

2) would dj have had more success and iterations released had the game been initially released a couple of years earlier?

3) when it comes to physically interactive gaming(kinect, that ps3 thing, wii) do you see there being a second wave of popularity in the future when the gameplay is better/more responsive?

1)

Probably not. I think the usage of obscure songs actually led to a cult following; the game feels more authentic with in-house music or songs that feel unique to a subculture. If they had stuck with familiar US songs, the game would have probably felt cheaper, not developed its own culture, and not held up over time.

It certainly would have been more popular in the short-term, but in-house music tends to develop a cult following that lasts for longer periods.

2)

By dj do you mean dj hero or beatmania? Either way, I don't think either would have much success. The user interface of IIDX is horrible and extremely counterproductive to learning how to play. DJ hero, also, is closer to actual DJing and that's the problem -- when a game feels like it's sincerely trying to emulate an instrument, at the higher levels it feels cheap. DDR actually lucked out in this respect, because it's nothing like dancing.

3)

There could be some oculus rift shit, I don't know. All of these new peripheral things are usually shortlived though and last about as long as novelty surrounding the peripheral does.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

I meant DJ hero. But yeh I see what you mean in all reapects

[Sidek]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

You and Dark0wl are the same person?

[Arch0wl]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Nope.

My name was derived from "NightOwl" because I stay up late. I still do; my ideal schedule is something like 12pm - 8pm (as opposed to 9am - 5pm) because I can get most of my errands done before work while everyone else is working, and I can work quietly once everyone else is asleep, but I'm still around for parties and things like that. I love 24-hour stores and prefer to do my grocery shopping when most people are asleep, because no one is in my way. In general, being slowed down by other people or having to wait longer because other people are slow or clumsy or both is massively irritating to me. The times I have to do something on a 9am-5pm schedule I'm misanthropic and hate everyone around me at every given moment. So, I very much prefer night time. If it weren't for the fact that most parties fill up by 11pm and most things close by 9pm, I'd gladly wake up at 2pm and go to bed at 6am.

Anyway, rant aside, "NightOwl" became "ArchOwl" when I applied the 'arch' prefix found in 'archmage', 'archduke', 'archbishop' etc.; the zero happened out of pragmatism when I realized "archowl" could be read as "arc howl" rather than "arch owl" and that my name was probably taken on some websites for this reason. By using the zero I ensured that the name would always be available on whatever website I wanted to register for.

The only other name I've used on multiple internet websites is almaIV / AlfredIV, both of which are derived from my real name (Alfred MacDonald IV); however, as an aside, I actually dislike my name a lot because "MacDonald" means "son of Donald" and this to me reads as "yo, my name is Donald and just to let you know, any dude from the bitches I knock up is my son" in surname form. "IV" is pretentious; I'm not from nobility, I'm actually from a poor / lower middle class background, and the only time this sort of thing makes sense is when you're rich. At most, you're just showing that you're really consistent at pumping out dudes. If I ever achieve any sort of notoriety to the point where I'd be recognized anyway regardless of name, I'm going to change my name to "Alfred Donald" and drop the "-Mac" and "IV" because I think they're stupid relics.

Also, I went by MittRomneysCampaign for a long time on reddit, and have a few other accounts that I'm not going to mention here.

That's about the gist of every name I've ever gone by.

[Ghakimx]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Did you ever think you has a destiny to fulfill or have fulfilled on FFR?

[Rapta]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Do you know what ever happened to Rhythm World?

[M0nkeyz]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

Do you know what ever happened to Rhythm World?

the audio section of newgrounds got updated, the game worked on the old newgrounds ID system and it doesn't work anymore, shame the game was fun.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Ask Me Anything rhythm game related

This thread makes me miss the early days of DDR. It was such an active scene back then.




I can speak a little bit about the carpal tunnel thing, because it was one of many reasons I retired from playing over 5 years ago.

If you want to minimize injury, you should take plenty of breaks, maintain good posture, and be careful not to overexert yourself. Pretty much what you'd expect.

What makes keyboard rhythm gaming a little different from standard typing is that you're using fewer fingers, hitting keys at a faster rate, and repeating these actions for a longer duration. So it's extremely important not to overdo it because you're placing a lot of stress in a very concentrated area. Tapping very hard can also add to the strain.

Another issue I don't see discussed enough: Reading ability. When you can't really read what's going on, it's way too easy to let your fingers mash/flail wildly, whereas if you can read everything perfectly, you can hit the keys more efficiently.

Personally, my main issue was overexertion. I played fast songs (such as 0x1311 or Red Sign), which can be harmful if you're like me and have weak muscles (which I am thankfully in the process of fixing through weightlifting). I also lacked the patience to rest long enough between songs.

My wrists would ache like hell during the night, and my hands got to the point where they'd tremble and shake if I held them out straight. After giving them plenty of time to heal, they no longer do this, but it was still scary to me at the time because I was worried it was permanent.

I think as long as you're not being stupid and constantly pushing your hands to absolute fatigue on a regular basis like I was, you should probably be okay over the long term. If you feel a little fatigued, take a break for a few minutes. Don't make drastic jumps in terms of speed -- build your way up slowly (similar to the concept of progressive overload in weightlifting). Make sure you're not hitting the keys too forcefully or wasting energy due to excess mashing.