Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

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  • stargroup100
    behanjc & me are <3'ers
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Music Producer
    • Jul 2006
    • 2051

    #181
    Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

    Originally posted by ilikexd
    Oh yes, please do, stargroup. I'll go out right here and say that I don't think simfiles can be considered an art form.
    I'm not well-versed in philosophy of art, so I'm gonna see if I can do any kind of rough description based on my intuitions

    the reason why we see music as a form of art is that we can take base associations (how certain textures/chords/etc invoke certain feelings/emotions/thoughts) and transform them into highly structured, intelligent, complex works. someone who understands music well can take an example of a music piece that would be considered fine art can explain and extrapolate a lot of characteristics and patterns that demonstrate the artist's/artists' technical abilities and intelligence as well as creative thinking, and in some cases explain how it's influential and historically significant

    and that's in a sense what notecharting is. you take the patterns that you can identify within the music and how you interpret the music and describe it with the notes. different people hear music differently, and if you can identify these things and understand the music better, chances are you can demonstrate this understanding through notecharting. in addition, it is a game that you can break down to explain how the different experiences associated with the game invoke certain feelings/emotions/thoughts, so it has aesthetic value here as well. this makes it parallel to music in many ways, so I tend to consider this an art form

    for a lot of people, one reason why they discredit it as art is because of how specific and limited the medium seems, but there's one important thing I've learned about art: art mediums with many limits can actually be more impressive. from a local level, 4k has more artistic potential than 6k. the reason for this is because 6 keys means you need 3 fingers on each hand, and due to more limited and difficult coordination, it is more difficult to associate certain patterns to relevant ideas. as much as I advocate 6k and how much fun it is, I'm speaking more in terms of what has been unexplored and competitive limits. many charts in 6k can be converted to 4k but not vice-versa. on a more universal level, less restrictions on art means that we have higher expectations for what the art delivers. more restrictions means that when we do encounter a creative concept, it is easier to identify and makes us realize what we thought was limited may not be so simple in the first place. a lot of retro games are unique, nostalgic, and highly creative, but there are fewer examples in proportion when it comes to games on modern platforms, despite the higher potential and limits (though this is not the only factor that contributes to this phenomenon)
    Rhythm Simulation Guide
    Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

    Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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    • stargroup100
      behanjc & me are <3'ers
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Music Producer
      • Jul 2006
      • 2051

      #182
      Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

      omfg choof plz LOL
      Rhythm Simulation Guide
      Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

      Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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      • Wayward Vagabond
        Confirmed Heartbreaker
        FFR Simfile Author
        • Jul 2012
        • 5866

        #183
        Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

        hey sg why are you dodging my question

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        • stargroup100
          behanjc & me are <3'ers
          FFR Simfile Author
          FFR Music Producer
          • Jul 2006
          • 2051

          #184
          Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

          Maybe if you got on Skype I'd tell you
          Rhythm Simulation Guide
          Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

          Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

          Comment

          • kmay
            Don't forget me
            • Jan 2007
            • 6532

            #185
            Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

            i really enjoy dot matrix hero

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            • ilikexd
              ​
              FFR Simfile Author
              • Apr 2006
              • 3209

              #186
              Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

              Originally posted by stargroup100
              for a lot of people, one reason why they discredit it as art is because of how specific and limited the medium seems
              Yeah, this is more or less what I mean. You're being bound by one specific artistic work; every single thing you put in the stepchart is because of something another artist already created ex nihilo in his/her music, but you aren't free to create absolutely anything in the stepchart because you'd end up with wrong BPMs, misrhythms, offsyncness, ghost notes, etc; real artistic freedom isn't there. Sure, there is some freedom, and it'd be unreasonable for me to reduce this to absolutely nothing. The way two different stepartists would step a track would come out very different, and if they're both competent and experienced, often both will come out enjoyable. But there is (artistic) freedom in any activity. You're probably already familiar with this idea: the degree of creative freedom in a certain medium, and at what point the degree becomes so small or so great that it can or cannot be considered art. This, alongside with the fact that I think stepcharts should (or at least in practice are) always made with intentions, i.e. made for the sake of being enjoyable by a specific audience that they are being presented to (even if the audience is very wide, e.g. FFR) reduce how much I think stepping can be considered art. Very often invoked is the idea of "I make stepcharts for myself; that anybody else might enjoy them is just a bonus." I frankly disagree with this completely. It's not inherently a bad thing to do, but when people say that I honestly feel they nine times out of ten are just being dishonest, because what often is the case is that they DIDN'T just make it for themselves, they'd already publicly released it somewhere to be played, and this sentiment is just an excuse to artificially stonewall themselves from any criticism. I don't think it's like a piece of music, or a painting, or another typical artist medium where you can creatively create whatever and claim some parts or all parts to only have personal meaning, or that its meaning is esoteric and hard to grasp quickly. A stepchart is just not equivalent. When releasing it to, let's say, FFR or some StepMania pack, it should be done with the intention of appealing to those who are going to play those things; it's something that's meant to be consumed and enjoyable. So also in a certain sense it can be said that there is some degree of objective grading or judging of a stepchart based on how much the target audience enjoys it (controversial opinion). I suppose that entirely contradicts the idea popularity vs. critical reception.

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              • rushyrulz
                Digital Dancing!
                FFR Simfile Author
                FFR Music Producer
                • Feb 2006
                • 12985

                #187
                Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                HAELEQUIN is fuckin perfect too btw


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                • Pizza69
                  Retired Staff
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 700

                  #188
                  Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                  For some reason, Undiscovered Colors just feels absolutely amazing for me.

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                  • DigitalS3r4ph
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 984

                    #189
                    Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                    Originally posted by stargroup100
                    from a local level, 4k has more artistic potential than 6k. the reason for this is because 6 keys means you need 3 fingers on each hand, and due to more limited and difficult coordination, it is more difficult to associate certain patterns to relevant ideas. as much as I advocate 6k and how much fun it is, I'm speaking more in terms of what has been unexplored and competitive limits. many charts in 6k can be converted to 4k but not vice-versa.
                    I have to disagree with this. 4k charts can be easily converted to 6k charts, and 6k charts offer much more room for interpretations of the song, granting a wider platform for artistic detail in charts. My 6k chart for Angel Eyes, which is basically a conversion of a 4k chart by MacGravel, is living proof of that.

                    I also deeply disagree with ilikexd's sentiments on the overall mindset of a step author, although I understand that's his opinion, we're converging into heavily subjective territory here. I can't speak for step authors of today (Although I have had conversations with a few "New School" step authors), and while you might be correct in the judgement of their mindset, I can confidently say that a good majority of people I worked with and were friends with stepped purely for their own enjoyment (as well as others, which was seen as a plus). For some it was even a meditative process that helped get them through tough times. People would also step songs because they really enjoyed the song, and there wasn't a good chart out for it yet.

                    If you look at my library of simfiles, there's a pretty crazy variety in there and each song was stepped for one random reason or another. Hardcore Overdoze was stepped because I thought the song was sick, and there was only a pad chart available for it at the time. Summer Jam is another chart I stepped because existing charts for it sucked IMHO. I felt like I could do better and have more fun with my version of the chart, so that's why I stepped it.

                    Me Pregunto was stepped because a girl I liked at the time wanted to see a chart for it, and I wanted to impress her. It turned out to be a solid underground hit that was enjoyed by people who played SM in foreign countries.

                    And Then We Kiss was stepped because trollolol.

                    Ganon Slayer and Tetrinet are the ONLY examples I can provide where ilikexd's assumption is actually correct: I stepped those files only because I truly wanted to be recognized as a legitimate step artist. At that point my name was out there, and I was free to step whatever I wanted. I have a really crazy taste in music, which is reflected easily in my library.

                    I feel that Art, as a painter, writer, builder, dancer; whatever medium you choose, is PURELY subjective, and that's the beauty of it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so if you enjoy Stepping Mans as a hobby and outlet for creativity, then you're doing it right.

                    But just like there are critics in the field of Arts, there are critics in Stepmania, and whether or not you want to cater to that audience is up to you. I feel like if you want to at least improve yourself however, you can see what others are doing, and then take whatever critique as additional tools to bolster your skillset in making charts.

                    There's a lot more to say on the topic too, but there are other factors that play into the overall chart package, like the graphics for example. That's for another day though lol.

                    EDIT: BTW, after 6+ years we're still having the same stupid discussion? Lmfao jesus christ you guys.
                    Last edited by DigitalS3r4ph; 05-21-2014, 09:26 AM.

                    PM me if you find the secret.

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                    • cetaka
                      Dark Chancellor
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 2550

                      #190
                      Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                      lol




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                      • cedolad
                        moonchild~
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 6879

                        #191
                        Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                        Jackhammer Madness is pretty accurate.

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                        • Dynam0
                          The Dominator
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 8987

                          #192
                          Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                          Beyond Abilities by MagnaTrick

                          Kappa

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                          • ___________
                            Banned
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 585

                            #193
                            Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                            stepmix 1

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                            • blindreper1179
                              Vice President Of TGB
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 5902

                              #194
                              Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                              4k hot looking babes by necros is pretty amazing.
                              Originally posted by thesunfan
                              absolutely I want to vomit on your face irl
                              Originally posted by choof
                              It was like trying to throw logic at a fuckin brick wall lmao
                              Originally posted by choof
                              whats more dense, a black hole or an icyworld file
                              Originally posted by Celirra
                              I've never been so disappointed by a man from Alabama than I am right now

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                              • Dynam0
                                The Dominator
                                • Sep 2005
                                • 8987

                                #195
                                Re: Which stepchart, to you, is as close to perfect as it gets?

                                bmxant's speed racer

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