Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature

coberst · 02-8-2007, 07:29 AM

Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature

The great truth of human nature is that wo/man strives for meaning. S/he imposes on raw experience symbolic categories of thought, and does so with conceptual structures of thought. “All human problems are, in the last resort, problems of the soul.”—Otto Rank

In the nineteenth century, after two hundred years of opposition paradigms, science faced the dilemma: if we make wo/man to be totally an object of science, to be as this object merely a conglomeration of atoms and wheels then where is there a place for freedom? How can such a collection of mere atoms be happy, and fashion the Good Life?

The best thinkers of the Enlightenment followed by the best of the nineteenth century were caught in the dilemma of a materialistic psychology. Does not the inner wo/man disappear when humans are made into an object of science? On the other hand if we succumb to the mode of the middle Ages, when the Church kept man firmly under the wraps of medieval superstitions, do we not give up all hope for self-determined man?

“Yet, we want man to be the embodiment of free, undetermined subjectivity, because this is the only thing that keeps him interesting in all of nature…It sums up the whole tragedy of the Enlightenment vision of science.” There are still those who would willingly surrender wo/man to Science because of their fear of an ever encroaching superstitious enemy.

Kant broke open this frustrating dilemma. By showing that sapiens could not know nature in its stark reality, that sapiens had no intellectual access to the thing-in-itself, that humans could never know a nature that transcended their epistemology, Kant “defeated materialistic psychology, even while keeping its gains. He centered nature on man, and so made psychology subjective; but he also showed the limitations of human perceptions in nature, and so he could be objective about them, and about man himself. In a word man was at once, limited creature, and bottomless mystery, object and subject…Thus it kept the best of materialism, and guaranteed more than materialism ever could: the protection of man’s freedom, and the preservation of his inner mystery.”

After Kant, Schilling illuminated the uniqueness of man’s ideas, and the limitations from any ideal within nature. Schilling gave us modern man. Materialism and idealism was conjoined. Wo/man functioned under the aegis of whole ideas, just as the idealists wanted, and thus man became an object of science while maintaining freedom of self-determination.

The great truth of the nineteenth century was that produced by William Dilthey, which was what wo/man constantly strived for. “It was “meaning” said Dilthey, meaning is the great truth about human nature. Everything that lives, lives by drawing together strands of experience as a basis for its action; to live is to act, to move forward into the world of experience…Meaning is the relationship between parts of experience.” Man does not do this drawing together on the basis of simple experience but on the basis of concepts. Man imposes symbolic categories of thought on raw experience. His conception of life determines the manner in which s/he values all of its parts.

Concludes Dilthey, meaning “is the comprehensive category through which life becomes comprehensible…Man is the meaning-creating animal.”

Does it make sense to you that “All human problems are, in the last resort, problems of the soul”??

Quotes and ideas from “Beyond Alienation” Becker

Billydude · 02-8-2007, 07:55 PM

Ughh, I'm too lazy to read all of your boring CT threads XP. They're just too long no offense.

RandomPscho · 02-8-2007, 08:09 PM

Please keep posts like that out of CT, Billydude.

I do believe that human problems are problems contained within the psyche, though I do not believe a soul truly exists? Are you using the soul as a form of the emotional sense of the brain?
Those quotes are very good, and correct in saying that we apply meaning to everything through means of categorization.

**Reach** · 02-8-2007, 08:20 PM

.........

You've got to be kidding me. GTFO, billydude. You don't like this thread because it just went over your head.

If anything Coberst is one of the wisest people on here. However, noone reads what he posts

I realize billy is only 13, but still. Billy, remember the old saying 'if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all'?. Well, that applies here >__>

Quote:

Concludes Dilthey, meaning “is the comprehensive category through which life becomes comprehensible…Man is the meaning-creating animal.”

Does it make sense to you that “All human problems are, in the last resort, problems of the soul”??

I think Dilthey is right. What makes us human? We are, at the end of the day, impermanent; what we derive from our existance comes from what meaning we can bring into our life that can be comprehended by our senses. Man is the meaning creating animal, simply because through impermanence it is really the only way which we are capable of making any sense of something far greater than we are.

So, problems of the soul? Do you insinuate that all human problems are derived from the fact that we take and create meaning as a form of existance? I would say that is true. If we exist through our soul, or what meaning we give and take from our impermanent stay here on Earth, then yes, it defines our existance.

I need to read some more philosophy when I get time.

coberst · 02-9-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomPscho

Please keep posts like that out of CT, Billydude.

I do believe that human problems are problems contained within the psyche, though I do not believe a soul truly exists? Are you using the soul as a form of the emotional sense of the brain?
Those quotes are very good, and correct in saying that we apply meaning to everything through means of categorization.

Humans are part animal and part something else. There are many different words signifying this 'something else'. Mind, spirit, reason, soul, etc. I have chosen to use the word 'soul' for this 'something else'. I do not subscribe anything supernatural to this soul. I am a materialist who recognizes that there is a mysterious aspect to humans and this aspect makes room for freedom, i.e. self-determination.

coberst · 02-9-2007, 05:51 AM

Reach

You speak very well for 19. I am encouraged. I think that our problems are a result of the meanings we create. We can do better and Becker's book is a delienation of how and why we can do better.

02-8-2007, 07:29 AM	#1
coberst FFR Player Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 256	Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature The great truth of human nature is that wo/man strives for meaning. S/he imposes on raw experience symbolic categories of thought, and does so with conceptual structures of thought. “All human problems are, in the last resort, problems of the soul.”—Otto Rank In the nineteenth century, after two hundred years of opposition paradigms, science faced the dilemma: if we make wo/man to be totally an object of science, to be as this object merely a conglomeration of atoms and wheels then where is there a place for freedom? How can such a collection of mere atoms be happy, and fashion the Good Life? The best thinkers of the Enlightenment followed by the best of the nineteenth century were caught in the dilemma of a materialistic psychology. Does not the inner wo/man disappear when humans are made into an object of science? On the other hand if we succumb to the mode of the middle Ages, when the Church kept man firmly under the wraps of medieval superstitions, do we not give up all hope for self-determined man? “Yet, we want man to be the embodiment of free, undetermined subjectivity, because this is the only thing that keeps him interesting in all of nature…It sums up the whole tragedy of the Enlightenment vision of science.” There are still those who would willingly surrender wo/man to Science because of their fear of an ever encroaching superstitious enemy. Kant broke open this frustrating dilemma. By showing that sapiens could not know nature in its stark reality, that sapiens had no intellectual access to the thing-in-itself, that humans could never know a nature that transcended their epistemology, Kant “defeated materialistic psychology, even while keeping its gains. He centered nature on man, and so made psychology subjective; but he also showed the limitations of human perceptions in nature, and so he could be objective about them, and about man himself. In a word man was at once, limited creature, and bottomless mystery, object and subject…Thus it kept the best of materialism, and guaranteed more than materialism ever could: the protection of man’s freedom, and the preservation of his inner mystery.” After Kant, Schilling illuminated the uniqueness of man’s ideas, and the limitations from any ideal within nature. Schilling gave us modern man. Materialism and idealism was conjoined. Wo/man functioned under the aegis of whole ideas, just as the idealists wanted, and thus man became an object of science while maintaining freedom of self-determination. The great truth of the nineteenth century was that produced by William Dilthey, which was what wo/man constantly strived for. “It was “meaning” said Dilthey, meaning is the great truth about human nature. Everything that lives, lives by drawing together strands of experience as a basis for its action; to live is to act, to move forward into the world of experience…Meaning is the relationship between parts of experience.” Man does not do this drawing together on the basis of simple experience but on the basis of concepts. Man imposes symbolic categories of thought on raw experience. His conception of life determines the manner in which s/he values all of its parts. Concludes Dilthey, meaning “is the comprehensive category through which life becomes comprehensible…Man is the meaning-creating animal.” Does it make sense to you that “All human problems are, in the last resort, problems of the soul”?? Quotes and ideas from “Beyond Alienation” Becker

02-8-2007, 08:09 PM	#3
RandomPscho FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 32 Posts: 504	Re: Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature Please keep posts like that out of CT, Billydude. I do believe that human problems are problems contained within the psyche, though I do not believe a soul truly exists? Are you using the soul as a form of the emotional sense of the brain? Those quotes are very good, and correct in saying that we apply meaning to everything through means of categorization.

02-9-2007, 05:51 AM	#6
coberst FFR Player Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 256	Re: Meaning: The Great Truth about Human Nature Reach You speak very well for 19. I am encouraged. I think that our problems are a result of the meanings we create. We can do better and Becker's book is a delienation of how and why we can do better.

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