[BW Contest] I'll Skin You Alive!

[jimerax]

Sorry if you feel bad on my ratings.

Something like 5/10 rating of mine isn't bad as a individual work at all and I'd say you did a good job on that, but I have to say it needs major improvement when it comes to the main screen of the new game.

We can't really compare the set that has multiple screens with the one that has only 1 pic, but I rated them by overall impression.

[condoct]

I don't feel bad about the ratings I'm just curious as to how exactly we're supposed to be reviewing these. Aren't we supposed to approve work that's good and leave it to the comunity after words to vote for what they think is the best?

[Garquillex]

If a skin is ultimately chosen to be added, and there are still gaps in the interfacing missing, whether it's an entire page, transitions, or smaller animations, or there are technical problems, will we be collaborating to finish?

Originally Posted by condoct

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that. When I look at the various reviews, I can already tell that some of the judges are clearly picking favorites. If there is a skin that may not necessarily be in your tastes, but still is good in quality, shouldn't it get a higher score regardless? By the looks of it, some of the judges (if not you then great) are obviously basing their scores on how much they like the skin rather than its overall quality.

Absolutely, and it's one of the problems I partially warned about earlier in the thread.
Preference, sentiment, feelings, etc., all need to be put aside as they convolute objective quality.

I'm also wary of letting the public ultimately decide the winners instead of letting them simply influence the final decision.
I'll discuss this to the end if the leads behind this are open to constructive criticism and improving the system.

[justin_ator]

The leads, referring to myself and ymia? I can't speak for him, but quite honestly if something needs to change we are open to changing it. This whole process became far more official than we intended it to be in the first place, requiring a lot of the submitters. If you have suggestions, throw them out on the table, but please be thorough so it doesn't cause more confusion. =]

[condoct]

Here is exactly how I think the judging system should work. Meaning, it really needs a complete overhaul.

Instead of using a scoring system, base it on two factors, approved or unapproved. There will be no need for scoring since we are just looking for submissions that will be in game. This portion isn’t a popularity contest. We are simply trying to find skins that are good enough to be used. Now, this will be based on QUALITY. I cannot stress that enough. Making a decision based on whether or not you like the skin is completely unfair and illegitimate. There will always be someone else who thinks the exact opposite you do, so you should respect that and look for QUALITY instead.

Obvious Example: “This skin has yellow in it, I don’t like the color yellow. Unapproved”

That’s not for you to decide. Forcing the artist to change the way it looks when there is clearly nothing wrong with it means you simply do not like the skin and are ruining someone's chances of their's being accepted.

When I say quality, I really mean that's the only thing you should be looking for. Find obvious mistakes such as pixilated layers, bad text, interfering base, ETC.

This contest should ultimately be decided by the community not by me and nine other judges. Once there are enough accepted skins, the community votes on their favorites. That decides the winner. Not the judges or anything else related in that matter.

Now these “bonuses” we have. Could be implemented in the community vote, but if it proves to be too much of a problem, remove it all together.

Side not: Skins shouldn’t be released to the public until the community vote begins. Unless if a certain skin is unapproved by a majority of the judges then give them the option to release it or not.

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by condoct

Aren't we supposed to approve work that's good and leave it to the community after words to vote for what they think is the best?

Yes, this +1,769,777

It doesn't matter what your boss wants.
It doesn't matter what your supervisor wants.
It doesn't matter what you want.

It's what WE want, the community.

[Emithith]

Originally Posted by Frank Munoz

Yes, this +1,769,777

It doesn't matter what your boss wants.
It doesn't matter what your supervisor wants.
It doesn't matter what you want.

It's what WE want, the community.

Damn straight. We don't what the people who are rating the skins are deciding to give us, we want what we want. We definitely have a right to a vote on the ones that are deemed worthy of being voted on.

[Zageron]

The only issue with this ideal is that FFR needs to look good. We can't have poor skins on our game. Straight to the fact, I'm not going to build the code, or separate the images on a skin that looks horrible. "We" is not 4 people, and for GUI the matter is something else entirely. Velocity and myself will only build the skins that the judges deem worthy, and only the ones that are fitting. I'm not trying to dampen your creative spirit, but if your artistic ability doesn't reach high enough you will get harsh results. My reviews are fair! I am not an artistic person but I have a good artistic taste, I also trust the reviews of my fellow judges if I feel that the results were a bit high on most of the submissions.

If you have any issues with me or the way I stated this, feel free to speak.

[condoct]

Again, which is why judges should only look for quality. No other opinion should matter.

Also, if it's too difficult to separate the images then why not use that as the reason to not aprove it?

[Zageron]

I altered the first post a bit. j_a if you have any issues with my changes I have your original post backed up, so just send me a shout on skype. If anyone has any issues they would like cleared up, just say so and I'll fix it up.

[YoshL]

so i probably used too many fonts in mine that the judges wouldn't have. would it be fine if i included both .png and .psd files in my submission?

[yo man im awesome]

I'm actually liking Condoct's judgine system a little better, to be honest.

[Zageron]

Originally Posted by YOSHl

so i probably used too many fonts in mine that the judges wouldn't have. would it be fine if i included both .png and .psd files in my submission?

Certainly. Include the fonts while you're at it.

And Conduct, I believe our judging system is following yours pretty much exactly. I don't see how it isn't.

[condoct]

Not really. Instead of using a scoring system, have the judges vote whether they think the skin should or shouldn't be used. Which is where I said to have the approve or unapproved concept.

[Emithith]

why do the judges have to use scoring? "judging" is a broad term, which approval/disapproval falls into. I am definitely on with condocts idea, but.. I'm no judge! But, I still say that if there was a skin that I didn't know I would've liked, because it never got in, I would feel a little disappointed at the judges.

ALTHOUGH, I can agree with Zageron, because I know the feeling of having to code and rip apart something really annoying.

[Zageron]

Also regardless of how something looks, if it's poorly done we wont use it in the game. It doesn't take a lot to "build a skin". Making it look like it belongs is more difficult.

I look forward to getting more submissions. I have already stated that linkisdoomed's skin is very good. If you think yours deserved a better ranking, think about what link did. (But dont copy it)

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by Zageron

Certainly. Include the fonts while you're at it.

i'm probably gonna include a .txt file or something with explanations of transitions and other elements not able to be shown through static images...if that's ok

[Zageron]

Originally Posted by YOSHl

i'm probably gonna include a .txt file or something with explanations of transitions and other elements not able to be shown through static images...if that's ok

Yup sure, if you want to have buttons animated (like glowing effects) just include the effect in your submission and explain.

[justin_ator]

I'm down with Approve/Disapprove, if you guys want to overhaul. The scoring system was simply a spin-off of the simfile judging, meant to get us started with a -somewhat- reasonable system. We can switch systems if you guys decide to.

[Linkisdoomed]

Wow, I just saw my submission, and forgot how underdeveloped the skin looked. So, here's some eyecandy for you guys: