Queue/Batch Discussion Thread - Page 792

pedolad · 10-18-2010, 07:52 PM

What about the judging of the last batch? iirc I had a few files in there.

**bmah** · 10-18-2010, 10:35 PM

I said this before, but the main reason for the restricted use of hands/quads was one of functionality amongst casual players. When FFR was all about business, the site was trying to get as many people as possible to play the game. As you might remember, not all keyboards could register more than two keytaps simulataneously, at least not on initial keyboard settings. Because it's all about first impressions to your patrons, it wasn't particularly useful to have casual players figure out how to configure their keyboards to make the game functional. It was figured that once people begin to play FMOs or FGOs, they're dedicated enough to determine a way to configure initially defunct two-tap keyboards. This is why the rule stood until today.

But fast forward into the present, and I can see at least a few reasons why this rule can safely be modified now:
1) I'm pretty sure most new keyboards now can automatically handle four simultaneous keytaps without initial configuration
2) Synth decided now that FFR is not going to be operated on a business model, and so there isn't as much sensitivity in attracting as many players as possible
3) as wc said, I think Challenging difficulty (or perhaps even very difficult) is the perfect cutoff line for hands/quads. In fact, I can even see the possibility of this rule being removed altogether, provided that steppers use hands/quads in lower difficulties at their own discretion and judgment

tl;dr version: the hands/quads rule was consumerism-based, but that's not highly applicable today, so I'd be happy to see this rule modified or removed altogether

**jimerax** · 10-19-2010, 01:25 AM

I personally think difficulty restriction of hand usage should be removed.
grace notes + jump patterns actually make hands on FFR, and it wasn't a problem.

If hands are overused or out of place it's automatically bad, and good hand usage is always welcome.
of course ceitain percentage of "no hands" files should be added though.

**kommisar** · 10-19-2010, 07:17 AM

hands and quads in moderation for easier difficulties should definitely be allowed. it's the reason stargroup giganerdraged at tass ages ago.

this IS a keyboard game and 99% of people moved on to spread. It's not a pad/ddr game anymore.

bob bob · 10-19-2010, 09:41 AM

I use hand alot in easier files
Dosent mean its a bad thing, sometimes there are places in files where its better to use them

operationstrawbarry · 10-19-2010, 10:13 AM

I was never against hands and quads, but I do have to say the reason for restricting to FMOs and FGOs, was a bit outrageous. By that time, the files were already insane. I say high Very Challenging + for quads and trips. On VS the concept could be used more creativly than on just say challenging. Also, FFR is still a casual rythm game no matter how you look at it. I think there is only a top 5-1% of the people that play here are godly while everyone else are adequate to first timers. I have a feeling that even challenging, you are treading through some very casual players who by now (I hope) know what are doing, but not enough to hit three of four at once. I think mid VC or high VC is an good place to put the quad trip policy in place.

**Plan_Bsk81127** · 10-19-2010, 10:31 AM

The whole main issue was the keyboard thing. Back then you could only play on the arrow keys, then the game slowly progressed and keymapping was introduced but not that many people went to spread, but now we have advanced to the point where a great majority of the players now play spread so hands wouldnt be too much of a issue on lower files. You can also tell then drop in index or arrow key players based on the charts, you dont see many index friendly charts coming out anymore do you?

Overall time to move on, Tass isnt here anymore, we got more judges, rule should be dropped.

who_cares973 · 10-19-2010, 12:12 PM

Just because the majority of us have moved on to spread doesn't mean everyone has. You have to remember that not every single player has actually taken part in the forums so not everyones opinion is being taken into consideration. While I do agree that hands only being in fmo/fgos only even back then was a retarded I don't think there should be hands on anything below VDs because most of the players that fall into the beginner catagory are still playing one handed or index despite the ability to map their keys for spread. There is no in game message that tells you how to do anything regarding key setup and what setup to use for maximum FfR pWnAgE. Like I said I'm not against using hands in easy files I'm just against using them in files under VD

**bmah** · 10-19-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

The whole main issue was the keyboard thing. Back then you could only play on the arrow keys, then the game slowly progressed and keymapping was introduced but not that many people went to spread, but now we have advanced to the point where a great majority of the players now play spread so hands wouldnt be too much of a issue on lower files. You can also tell then drop in index or arrow key players based on the charts, you dont see many index friendly charts coming out anymore do you?

Overall time to move on, Tass isnt here anymore, we got more judges, rule should be dropped.

Basically what I said, in addition to the fact that the rule was to get as many casual gamers to continue playing.
wc: there were talks long ago about providing players instructions on why keymapping is useful and how it can be implemented. If the restricted hands/quads rule is removed altogether, certainly it would be useful to bring to the attention of casual players an announcement regarding the usage of keymapping.

**NSane** · 10-19-2010, 10:12 PM

The Batch will be open tomorrow. Wednesday, October 20th, 2010.

Just for those who were wondering and interested. Also for those not sure what e-mail to send files to, in case you didn't read the front page the correct e-mail to send your files to is: nsaneffr@gmail.com

who_cares973 · 10-19-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmah

wc: there were talks long ago about providing players instructions on why keymapping is useful and how it can be implemented. If the restricted hands/quads rule is removed altogether, certainly it would be useful to bring to the attention of casual players an announcement regarding the usage of keymapping.

alright that would be something I would want added to be added if the hand/quad restriction was removed for all difficulties

**TC_Halogen** · 10-19-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSane

The Batch will be open tomorrow. Wednesday, October 20th, 2010.

Just for those who were wondering and interested. Also for those not sure what e-mail to send files to, in case you didn't read the front page the correct e-mail to send your files to is: nsaneffr@gmail.com

Who's judging?

**Rebirth0** · 10-19-2010, 11:50 PM

I'd be interested in this again

AsphyxZero · 10-19-2010, 11:59 PM

Aite, stepping something this week then.

I do have a question though. Was My Half ever in the batch?

bob bob · 10-20-2010, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSane

The Batch will be open tomorrow. Wednesday, October 20th, 2010.

Just for those who were wondering and interested. Also for those not sure what e-mail to send files to, in case you didn't read the front page the correct e-mail to send your files to is: nsaneffr@gmail.com

woop woop

**jimerax** · 10-20-2010, 05:33 AM

Well, current idea (Nsane and myself) is "team-judgement".
A team consists of 2-3 judges, and each team judges different files in the batch.

[Merit] This makes it possible to judge many files a lot easier/faster (old system was way tough for judges). And by having many judges, this system won't be affected by inactivity of some judges that much.

[Demerit] There could be judgement inconsistency in the same batch (especially when a team has only 2 judges). If judges are experienced enough it won't be a big issue.. maybe.

[Example]
2 judges x 3 teams = 6
3 judges x 3 teams = 9
2 judges x 4 teams = 8
3 judges x 4 teams = 12
2 judges x 5 teams = 10

I posted the list a few days ago but can't determine the final list of judges yet because some people in the list are kinda unclear.

Korygon · 10-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Okay I sent 3 files and a request to become a judge because everyone loves me right

also I agree with JX's judging method. Since most of the elitist *** judges have similar views on files, it would be much more efficient to split the judges up into groups to deal with all the submissions

**kommisar** · 10-20-2010, 01:57 PM

decreasing the size of batches with different judge groups is actually a good idea. less work and more motivation. the minimum size should be three judges though for a tie breaker.

**samurai7694** · 10-20-2010, 02:10 PM

kind of silly to ask but, are .swf files acceptable? if not then that's fine.

Korygon · 10-20-2010, 02:40 PM

Since FFR doesn't even do standard backgrounds, I would go with most likely not

10-18-2010, 07:52 PM	#15821
pedolad FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 248	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread What about the judging of the last batch? iirc I had a few files in there.

10-18-2010, 10:35 PM	#15822
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 36 Posts: 8,448	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread I said this before, but the main reason for the restricted use of hands/quads was one of functionality amongst casual players. When FFR was all about business, the site was trying to get as many people as possible to play the game. As you might remember, not all keyboards could register more than two keytaps simulataneously, at least not on initial keyboard settings. Because it's all about first impressions to your patrons, it wasn't particularly useful to have casual players figure out how to configure their keyboards to make the game functional. It was figured that once people begin to play FMOs or FGOs, they're dedicated enough to determine a way to configure initially defunct two-tap keyboards. This is why the rule stood until today. But fast forward into the present, and I can see at least a few reasons why this rule can safely be modified now: 1) I'm pretty sure most new keyboards now can automatically handle four simultaneous keytaps without initial configuration 2) Synth decided now that FFR is not going to be operated on a business model, and so there isn't as much sensitivity in attracting as many players as possible 3) as wc said, I think Challenging difficulty (or perhaps even very difficult) is the perfect cutoff line for hands/quads. In fact, I can even see the possibility of this rule being removed altogether, provided that steppers use hands/quads in lower difficulties at their own discretion and judgment tl;dr version: the hands/quads rule was consumerism-based, but that's not highly applicable today, so I'd be happy to see this rule modified or removed altogether

10-19-2010, 01:25 AM	#15823
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread I personally think difficulty restriction of hand usage should be removed. grace notes + jump patterns actually make hands on FFR, and it wasn't a problem. If hands are overused or out of place it's automatically bad, and good hand usage is always welcome. of course ceitain percentage of "no hands" files should be added though. Last edited by jimerax; 10-19-2010 at 01:28 AM..

10-19-2010, 07:17 AM	#15824
kommisar Dark Chancellor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Moncton, NB Age: 33 Posts: 7,301	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread hands and quads in moderation for easier difficulties should definitely be allowed. it's the reason stargroup giganerdraged at tass ages ago. this IS a keyboard game and 99% of people moved on to spread. It's not a pad/ddr game anymore. __________________

10-19-2010, 09:41 AM	#15825
bob bob This Is How We Do It~ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Portsmouth,United Kingdom Age: 28 Posts: 3,226	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread I use hand alot in easier files Dosent mean its a bad thing, sometimes there are places in files where its better to use them __________________ Best AAA's: NAINAI69, Eradication, Since 1983 Best Non AAA's: Gunkienen Tarusuigin, (1-0-1-1), Pandora (6-0-1-0) Rotary Slicers MISSFLAG Waiting for 2 Million members... 5th Place: 7th Official Tournament D5

10-19-2010, 10:13 AM	#15826
operationstrawbarry FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Taipei Taiwan Age: 37 Posts: 802	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread I was never against hands and quads, but I do have to say the reason for restricting to FMOs and FGOs, was a bit outrageous. By that time, the files were already insane. I say high Very Challenging + for quads and trips. On VS the concept could be used more creativly than on just say challenging. Also, FFR is still a casual rythm game no matter how you look at it. I think there is only a top 5-1% of the people that play here are godly while everyone else are adequate to first timers. I have a feeling that even challenging, you are treading through some very casual players who by now (I hope) know what are doing, but not enough to hit three of four at once. I think mid VC or high VC is an good place to put the quad trip policy in place. Last edited by operationstrawbarry; 10-19-2010 at 10:15 AM..

10-19-2010, 10:31 AM	#15827
Plan_Bsk81127 snooches Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 32 Posts: 6,420	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread The whole main issue was the keyboard thing. Back then you could only play on the arrow keys, then the game slowly progressed and keymapping was introduced but not that many people went to spread, but now we have advanced to the point where a great majority of the players now play spread so hands wouldnt be too much of a issue on lower files. You can also tell then drop in index or arrow key players based on the charts, you dont see many index friendly charts coming out anymore do you? Overall time to move on, Tass isnt here anymore, we got more judges, rule should be dropped.

10-19-2010, 12:12 PM	#15828
who_cares973 FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: :U Age: 35 Posts: 15,407	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread Just because the majority of us have moved on to spread doesn't mean everyone has. You have to remember that not every single player has actually taken part in the forums so not everyones opinion is being taken into consideration. While I do agree that hands only being in fmo/fgos only even back then was a retarded I don't think there should be hands on anything below VDs because most of the players that fall into the beginner catagory are still playing one handed or index despite the ability to map their keys for spread. There is no in game message that tells you how to do anything regarding key setup and what setup to use for maximum FfR pWnAgE. Like I said I'm not against using hands in easy files I'm just against using them in files under VD __________________

10-19-2010, 10:12 PM	#15830
NSane Retired Staff Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 475	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread The Batch will be open tomorrow. Wednesday, October 20th, 2010. Just for those who were wondering and interested. Also for those not sure what e-mail to send files to, in case you didn't read the front page the correct e-mail to send your files to is: nsaneffr@gmail.com __________________ Retired from FFR/Stepmania Playing Hearthstone now Highest Hearthstone Rank: Legend Lannix#1632 @ Americas

10-19-2010, 11:50 PM	#15833
Rebirth0 FFR Originalbro Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Age: 33 Posts: 8,750	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread I'd be interested in this again

10-19-2010, 11:59 PM	#15834
AsphyxZero Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Las Vegas Age: 33 Posts: 1,823	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread Aite, stepping something this week then. I do have a question though. Was My Half ever in the batch?

10-20-2010, 05:33 AM	#15836
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread Well, current idea (Nsane and myself) is "team-judgement". A team consists of 2-3 judges, and each team judges different files in the batch. [Merit] This makes it possible to judge many files a lot easier/faster (old system was way tough for judges). And by having many judges, this system won't be affected by inactivity of some judges that much. [Demerit] There could be judgement inconsistency in the same batch (especially when a team has only 2 judges). If judges are experienced enough it won't be a big issue.. maybe. [Example] 2 judges x 3 teams = 6 3 judges x 3 teams = 9 2 judges x 4 teams = 8 3 judges x 4 teams = 12 2 judges x 5 teams = 10 I posted the list a few days ago but can't determine the final list of judges yet because some people in the list are kinda unclear.

10-20-2010, 01:12 PM	#15837
Korygon FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 138	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread Okay I sent 3 files and a request to become a judge because everyone loves me right also I agree with JX's judging method. Since most of the elitist *** judges have similar views on files, it would be much more efficient to split the judges up into groups to deal with all the submissions Last edited by Korygon; 10-20-2010 at 01:15 PM..

10-20-2010, 01:57 PM	#15838
kommisar Dark Chancellor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Moncton, NB Age: 33 Posts: 7,301	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread decreasing the size of batches with different judge groups is actually a good idea. less work and more motivation. the minimum size should be three judges though for a tie breaker. __________________

10-20-2010, 02:10 PM	#15839
samurai7694 ❤ Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 29 Posts: 4,638	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread kind of silly to ask but, are .swf files acceptable? if not then that's fine. __________________

10-20-2010, 02:40 PM	#15840
Korygon FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 138	Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread Since FFR doesn't even do standard backgrounds, I would go with most likely not

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