Playing style affecting timing?

[person748]

Just wanting some opinions here.

I've played the same way since I downloaded Stepmania years ago, and can't seem to ever really AAA even when I play a song over and over.

This was made abundantly clear to me when I entered this last tournament.

I play with three fingers on both hands (both index fingers and middle on my right hand in a keyboard arrow formation) and I'm considering switching to spread of some sort.. I've given it a few shots, with pretty decent results, but I want to see what the general opinion is before I confuse my brain too much, heheh

TL;DR
What's your favorite style, and do you think it makes your timing better than playing another way?

[Wayward Vagabond]

would depend on what you're comfortable with. when i played i preferred concave setups like thlp

[GammaBlaster]

Spread since I very first started playing StepMania.

I really don't know how people train timing properly, though (I just pay really close attention to my keytaps and keep the "gap" between them maintained)

[Mourningfall]

Your posture can have a huge impact on your timing.
Last night I moved from my usual spot hunched over a table into my lounge so I could play FFR on my 70" tv. Sitting in my comfortable armchair with the keyboard on my lap I noticed having your arms extended further from your body puts an unnecessary strain on your forearms, playing a song I'd normally be able to sdg/sub20g on I found myself dropping 200+ goods and feeling like I just spent 2 hours straight whoring vRofl.
So TL;DR correct posture could help improve performance~

[Riotpolice]

What can help your overall posture is to make sure when you're playing, try to keep your hands/keyboard above your stomach to minimize straining. If you can get your hands/keyboard anything around chest height when playing, you shouldn't have any problems with stamina.

[person748]

Ah, thanks for the replies! I'm trying out the thlp key setup, and it was an instant difference. I'm still getting used to it, but it was a considerable difference in timing error.
I'm also sitting at a table that is lower than chest height, but still above my stomach, and I think that is also helping.

I've been meaning to make a thread asking about this for quite some time, but I'm a scaredy cat, haha.

[Dynam0]

I like to explain accuracy in a general sense that it requires two things:

1) Maintaining an even tempo: This quality is one not specific to rhythm games alone and could have already been developed by having prior experience in music for instance. Being familiar with counting groups of 16th or "24th" notes or at least internalizing a system for how these intervals are represented at various BPM's is crucial for accuracy.

2) Being able to judge when an arrow will be in the center of the receptor.
This is something that takes much more time to develop, relying on both muscle memory and pattern recognition (reading) to deconstruct patterns and respond with the proper outputs. The player's awareness of the center of the receptor sharpens with experience much like a dart or billiard player who zeroes in on a much smaller area than the average player.

As with anything skill-oriented though, some can have a more natural affinity for these skills than others.


On play-style:

It's been widely demonstrated that index players have much better accuracy in general than spread players, given that the charts have patterns which are within a certain comfort zone. This can be explained with the second quality needed for accuracy; index players have a very honed muscle memory due to only having to control two fingers rather than four. It can be argued that although index requires movement around the keys where spread is more static, there are less basic rudiments involved in playing index allowing for the player to be less conscious of pattern deconstruction and focus more on rhythm itself. Obviously playing index limits oneself to a certain degree but it is definitely superior for accuracy in more basic charts or patterns.

For fine-tuning things within spread, people already suggested good tips for posture and the like. I think posture is somewhat less important than actual hand positioning on the keyboard. There is ideal positioning that pianists and other musicians use but some of the most talented musicians use unorthodox technique. Same thing applies to golf swings I guess; some people have incredibly odd looking technique but it works with their body type and mechanics and is much more effective for them.

/science

[popsicle_3000]

the keyboard you use and connections to your computer, along with your display setup will affect your timing.
I used to run my keyboard through a USB hub, and noticed when I plugged directly into the motherboard, timing got a lot more consistent. It eliminated a bit of lag/uncertainty in either direction even though the hub was not some chinese 2$ job

monitor rate also affects it because the game runs smoother. I upgraded to a lower ms monitor even before 60fps came around, and again, helped increase accuracy

[Riotpolice]

Good job Dynam0, you've just successfully overwhelmed this poor guy with technical jargon.

nojk, I know you're just trying to help :P

[YoshL]

a big thing to experiment with is how far in your keyboard is to your desk. mine is far enough in that the middle of my forearm is sitting on the edge of the desk and my wrists are elevated off of the desk. I know some people like to play with their wrists down, or no arm contact at all etc.

[danny53x]

Always remember, you'll never know how accurate you are if your hardware/software and offset adjustments aren't accurate.

[person748]

Originally Posted by Riotpolice

Good job Dynam0, you've just successfully overwhelmed this poor guy with technical jargon.

nojk, I know you're just trying to help :P

I'm more overwhelmed with how much help I got! I'm really thankful!

I think that I'm going to stick with what I have for now, because I'm able to go a lot faster with it. Trying to quickly move the middle and index of the same hand for a side, up/ side, down combo (especially my dumb left hand that won't cooperate no matter what) is a little bit too much of a drawback for me, but it does seem like the timing is better..

I guess it will just have to be something that I work out with practice, huh?

I'll continue to work on the posture and the keyboard position, then see what I can do about possible lagging if that's the case. I'm more willing to blame myself than the game or my computer though, haha.

It just so happens that reading music is a weak point for me, so ouch on that too

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by person748

Ah, thanks for the replies! I'm trying out the thlp key setup, and it was an instant difference. I'm still getting used to it, but it was a considerable difference in timing error.
I'm also sitting at a table that is lower than chest height, but still above my stomach, and I think that is also helping.

I've been meaning to make a thread asking about this for quite some time, but I'm a scaredy cat, haha.

Timing error is due to muscle memory and ovewriting it.

Concave master race

[Dynam0]

Originally Posted by Riotpolice

Good job Dynam0, you've just successfully overwhelmed this poor guy with technical jargon.

nojk, I know you're just trying to help :P

tl;dr, accuracy comes with playing a lot but some pick it up more naturally and have a higher skill ceiling. Practice with different setups/posture/positioning until you find the one that works best for your personal preferences.

Hardware is important too but I was focusing on how to innately improve accuracy of the player

btw it's not so much reading music that is important but learning how to count rhythms out can be an asset and having experience in playing a musical instrument transfers over to rhythm games well

[EzExZeRo7497]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

I like to explain accuracy in a general sense that it requires two things:

1) Maintaining an even tempo: This quality is one not specific to rhythm games alone and could have already been developed by having prior experience in music for instance. Being familiar with counting groups of 16th or "24th" notes or at least internalizing a system for how these intervals are represented at various BPM's is crucial for accuracy.

2) Being able to judge when an arrow will be in the center of the receptor.
This is something that takes much more time to develop, relying on both muscle memory and pattern recognition (reading) to deconstruct patterns and respond with the proper outputs. The player's awareness of the center of the receptor sharpens with experience much like a dart or billiard player who zeroes in on a much smaller area than the average player.

As with anything skill-oriented though, some can have a more natural affinity for these skills than others.


On play-style:

It's been widely demonstrated that index players have much better accuracy in general than spread players, given that the charts have patterns which are within a certain comfort zone. This can be explained with the second quality needed for accuracy; index players have a very honed muscle memory due to only having to control two fingers rather than four. It can be argued that although index requires movement around the keys where spread is more static, there are less basic rudiments involved in playing index allowing for the player to be less conscious of pattern deconstruction and focus more on rhythm itself. Obviously playing index limits oneself to a certain degree but it is definitely superior for accuracy in more basic charts or patterns.

For fine-tuning things within spread, people already suggested good tips for posture and the like. I think posture is somewhat less important than actual hand positioning on the keyboard. There is ideal positioning that pianists and other musicians use but some of the most talented musicians use unorthodox technique. Same thing applies to golf swings I guess; some people have incredibly odd looking technique but it works with their body type and mechanics and is much more effective for them.

Dynamo nailed everything. You should finish that accuracy guide one day lmao.

Hardware, of course, will be the most important factor though. Even if the most optimal technique and the best pattern recognition/muscle memory abilities and your keyboard has a very variable delay in key registration, your accuracy will still be bad. Wireless keyboards TEND (I use tend because some wireless keyboards have little to no delay) to have a delay in key registration, so I wouldn't recommend that.

[person748]

After a little trying, as well as some trial and error, I just made my second ever heavy AAA!

Anyone have any confetti? haha

I'm definitely going to try a little more on learning the concave technique though, because it seems to be worth it with the instant timing improvement- it's almost like starting completely over with the way I play now, so again, practice practice practice practice

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

would depend on what you're comfortable with. when i played i preferred concave setups like thlp

I have to agree with this. For speedy learning and getting better, concave setups such as wdji, efji, thko, thlp, scbh, gn,l, qslp, and wdlp do wonders for speed but imo starting to realize that they can cause some jack & trill destabilization as you get further into the harder songs where they become quicker. I feel ultimately the spread setup is the best setup that you could use, like qwop, erio, weop, and so on.

[person748]

Originally Posted by gold stinger

I have to agree with this. For speedy learning and getting better, concave setups such as wdji, efji, thko, thlp, scbh, gn,l, qslp, and wdlp do wonders for speed but imo starting to realize that they can cause some jack & trill destabilization as you get further into the harder songs where they become quicker. I feel ultimately the spread setup is the best setup that you could use, like qwop, erio, weop, and so on.

Will definitely keep in mind. I'd like to maybe be able to use both somewhat proficiently, as that would be a huge advantage, but my brain would probably really hate me for that, heheh.

[Garquillex]

if you have windows 7 or later, use a non-Aero theme
it creates display lag