TWG XVI Postgame

[chardish]

You all got beat because none of you even cared about finding the wolves and just figured out everyone else would do it for you.

You got beat because none of you would talk.

You got beat because you were too worried about losing to throw out votes just to get people talking, even if it's on poor suspicions.

You got beat because you didn't feel like voting unless you had enough evidence to go on.

You got beat because you played this game like living to the end was more important than finding the wolves.

You got beat because you've spent so much time relying on tons of blues for information that you've forgotten how to think for yourselves.

You got beat because most of you aren't nearly as good as this game as you think you are without being a part of an alliance of known humans.

You got beat because the most common phrase of the game was "I don't know what to think about person X."

You got beat because you were too worried to make enemies that none of you called anybody out on anything.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Tasselfoot]

Yup. I had the exact reasoning pegged for both Blah and LD... and I didn't listen to myself.

GG.

[Kilgamayan]

*burns his banner*

We need to move to a win-loss format.

Congratulations, guys, this game was less interesting than the most recent DDRFreak game, and that one saw the marked wolf turn on the other wolves and tell all the humans who the wolves were.

[aperson]

wow way to fucking knife in box the one person doing shit you fucking idiots.

[Tasselfoot]

Win-Loss... as in you win if your team wins, regardless if you live?

[chardish]

*burns all banners*

Pips are retired forever. Thanks guys.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, and as long as I'm here, I'll compound on chardish's sentiments, as well as explain why we need a new record system.

Simply put, you people are too chickenshit of being wrong.

This is to be expected, as many of you pride yourselves on being high-level thinkers. Now what's the one thing I say that a CTer will absolutely refuse to do? Admit to being wrong. That spills over into this game, because this is actual competition. You're wrong here and you're wrong where it matters, and in a public arena to boot. And at the end of the game, everyone knows you were wrong.

The banner system reflects this. You fuck up, game over and a big fat L for you. The win-loss system is different. You fuck up, you can still win the game. And as long as you won, who cares if you were right or wrong?

I don't want to hear the "I only play to have fun" excuse, because after this game the only person that can still legitimately hide behind that is Kefit because he wasn't a part of this debacle. There was no conversation because everyone was far too afraid of being wrong to try to win or even to try having fun.

aperson definitely deserves exemption because he actually tried to make the game interesting. And what do you people do? You get him killed. In a round where a wolf should have been voted off instead, no less.

EDIT:

Win-Loss... as in you win if your team wins, regardless if you live?

That is correct.

[Tasselfoot]

I AM TASS AND I APPROVE THIS CHANGE!


[00:33] TasselFoot: I stop being active for the majority (if not all) of this game... and the whole fucking game dies.
[00:33] TasselFoot: And look... I lived.
[00:33] TasselFoot: I be active... I do lots of shit... the game goes on and my team wins... and I die.
[00:33] TasselFoot: so hell, I'm all for a win/loss system.
[00:34] TasselFoot: means I don't have to be pissed off when I am MVP and get killed.
[00:34] this is chardish: What happened was that people are uncomfortable working in a context where there were no blues.
[00:34] TasselFoot: I just didn't listen to my head. Plain and simple. For everyone else... *shrugs*
[00:34] TasselFoot: I fucked up from my end.
[00:34] this is chardish: People have followed the whole game on lol masons seers psychics vigilantes etc., and suddenly now they had to use their instincts.
[00:34] TasselFoot: Because I had both Blah and LD pegged.
[00:34] this is chardish: You are not exempt from this. You didn't use your head, either.
[00:35] this is chardish: Mead. Holy shit.
[00:35] TasselFoot: [00:34] TasselFoot: I just didn't listen to my head. Plain and simple. For everyone else... *shrugs*
[00:35] this is chardish: I know. I'm just rubbing it in. ; )
[00:35] TasselFoot: I'm the first to admit I'm wrong, or I've messed up.
[00:35] TasselFoot: I could care less if you try and rub it in.

[chardish]

Basically here's the direction I think this game needs to go in.

1) Abolish jTWG after the current game. It's served its purpose and if its players can't play in the big leagues they probably weren't cut out for it. The "anyone-can-play" variable was really interesting in the early days of TWG, and I think everyone's forgotten about it. The constant influx of newcomers (who could possibly be wolves) encouraged people to use their instincts instead of just passively waiting for someone to make a hypocrisy or "not act as usual."

2) Abolish timed signups. Instead, signups last for 48 hours. Anyone who signs up during that period gets 1 raffle ticket, and the appropriate number of players are randomly drawn.
If you didn't get in the previous game, the number of raffle tickets you had in the previous drawing gets doubled. So you get 2 chances, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32, etc. Eventually it will be mathematically impossible to not get in. This is to prevent a horrible streak of bad luck from keeping someone out of the game. People who have been plain green 5 or 6 times in a row can relate to this.
NOTE: You must still sign up for each game in order to be considered. If you don't sign up for one, you lose all the raffle tickets you had stored.
SPECIAL SECOND NOTE, IN CASE THERE ARE IDIOTS AMONG US: Once you're in a game you're back to 1 raffle ticket.

3) Abolish banners. I just did this, but please, nobody bring them back. The focus of this game should be the current game, not the overall progression of your e-penis. This isn't the MLB or anything, and no one really cares what your batting average is. Also, no one cares what your batting average was 5 seasons ago, either. (Like the baseball references, Kilga?)
And get them out of your sigs, already.

4) Institute a new rule. 2 phantoms in the same game is a 1 game ban. 3 in the same game is a lifetime ban.

5) Institute a new rule that if you post just saying that you're voting to avoid a phantom, and you don't post anything more that day, it still counts as a phantom. NOTE: How "anything more that day" is interpreted is subject to the host's discretion. So you can't just say "lol hi" to save yourself from the phantom.

[Kilgamayan]

Uh, can we do all that sign-up-affecting stuff after next game? >_>

[stretchypanda]

How 'bout FFR takes a break from TWG?

Seriously. I really don't have an excuse for being disinterested in the game. I signed up because there was one spot left and Guido offered it to me.

But no one was interested enough in this game. No one. And Chardish is frustrated because he was trying hard and we were dicking around.

So let's take a break, kids. Seriously.

EDIT: Not that it matters, but Blah also had two phantoms. He and LD could both have voted for me and that wouldn't have mattered had the same number of humans voted Blah.

[Tasselfoot]

Haha... Panda is right....!!! Once again Chardish ends a game early when he shouldn't have. *laughs* I don't care though.

I agree with Chardish's rules... except #2. TWC will be having a long discussion about this in the next couple of days, whenever we can get all 5 of us online at the same time. Don't expect another TWG for at least a week... probably more.

[chardish]

EDIT: Not that it matters, but Blah also had two phantoms. He and LD could both have voted for me and that wouldn't have mattered had the same number of humans voted Blah.

No, because instalynch is still the same number regardless of how many phantoms people have. Once he and LD voted you, game over.

I agree with you about the break though. A month sounds good.

[stretchypanda]

If the humans had managed to get their asses in gear, it would have worked out fine. It's always been said that REAL votes have more weight than phantoms, so if even two people managed to vote before LD and Blah, we'd have had a KIB at worst. I realize the unlikelihood of this situation.. I'm just saying...

[chardish]

Rules for phantoms are spelled out in full in the rules thread. If 2 humans had gotten to Blah first, indeed the humans would have won. But the wolves were planning on being there when the topic was unlocked, and Blah was planning on giving Jay his password in case he wasn't there.

And the odds of Jay not being online 24/7? Slim to none. <3

[Kefit]

Half the reason I sit out of games is because I don't have enough time to really put towards them.

The other reason is that I need the breaks. After a while these games become awefully repetitive, and often rather boring. The break helps it seem new again. So, for whatever it counts for (and I am fully aware that is little to nothing), I am in full support of taking a break of a few weeks.

I don't really see the point of the raffle though. This may have been the way to go back when signups filled in under two minutes, but nowadays we seem to have trouble getting enough people to be interested enough to join in the first place.

I've been saying that the banners have needed to dissappear for a long time, and I am glad that they are gone. Yay.

And opening up the games to more players will be a good move, provided there are any intelligent people left on this site who would actually be interested in joining in on this.

[blahblah18]

god you guys are completely and utterly wrong with your take on it. If there is an influx of players that want to play, let them all play. Why abolish jTWG? If there are 30 people that want to play, have 2 games, why make a lotto for which ones can play, that's retarded. Why also take a break from it, if people don't want to play, they won't, and games will start wen enough people sign up for them. Also, the reason that the game is getting boring again is because its been the exact same crap every time for a while now. go to the princeton mafia site and add some roles. I just don't want to host because i'd rather play., but there are a ton of great variations to expound upon. (Next person should do kingmaker and one of the other roles) Hell, I'd absolutely love to come up with a set of roles and rules for a game if someone else is willing to do the hosting.

To get around this problem, the best format is actuall this, for a game with all non-retards playing, which it has been recently.

Someone RNG's the roles at the beginning, game begins, and the 3rd party candidate announces the wolf pick for the kill... the person killed night 1 becomes moderator for the game. That's a simple alternative if people don't want to host because they'd rather play. But all the game really needs is a little spicing up, so start looking in the right direction and stop being misguided.

[stretchypanda]

The break is just a suggestion.

Anyone who wants to take it should take it.

Anyone who wants to keep playing should keep playing, by all means.

But, Blah, it's summer. We should all go outside and get sunburned or something, and come back actually interested in the game.

EDIT: Good job, Blah and LD, btw.

[mead1]

I have to say I agree with blah on a few points. jTWG is a really good idea. I know it may not bring in as many fresh faces as you guys like, but it does have an audience of it's own. The raffle format compounded with the lack of jTWG is even worse. This means that everyone from TWG, jTWG, and anyone who randomly stumbles upon this forum from critical thinking, will all be competing for the same 12-16 slots. This, is a bad idea.

I'm really sorry about the way this game ended. Everyone was just acting the way I normally do. The next game I play in (Which won't be for about 3 months, actually) I promise to not suck so much, and possibly come up with some original ideas. If I am unable to do that, I will atleast be more active on te forum and discuss more on AIM.

[lightdarkness]

I'd like to thank Talisman for figuring out TPS

I'd like to thank TPS for being obvious

I'd like to thank Tass for not making me paranoid

I'd like to thank myself for killing the guardian

I'd like to thank blah for being a kick ass partner this entire game

I'd like to thank Chardish for ending the game so I can concentrate on exams


lol, Tass had the game but didn't listen to himself

[flypie743]

I knew it was LD, both me and Tass had that feeling but there was no real real SOLID evidence to vote for you guys.

[lightdarkness]

I knew it was LD, both me and Tass had that feeling but there was no real real SOLID evidence to vote for you guys.

Thats where you guys messed up.

Tass was trying to get the guardian on his side as soon as he was "confirmed", then all the sudden you guys have the EXACT same mindset, at the exam same time (back to back posts)

Gave away your guardianism :'(

[flypie743]

Tass was trying to get the guardian on his side as soon as he was "confirmed", then all the sudden you guys have the EXACT same mindset, at the exam same time (back to back posts)

Well, I figured I would post SOMETHING because posting nothing was getting us nowhere

[lightdarkness]

but it got us everywhere :-D

[talisman]

Meh... if I had been alive there would have been alot more activity. But props to tps for picking me out of the crowd day one. I guess my mistake was trying to start a chat (omg so wolfish! ....).

Anyway, the raffle idea sounds retarded, in my opinion. I got bored following this game (because no one posted in it) and started to read through jTWG... jesus. Some of them are ok (like danceguy, for example) but others are just like "whoa... he just voted, that's kind of suspicious. I think I'll vote for him. OMG something else happened! I'm voting for someone else now!"

As far as this game went, I thought we were dead once LD fell for the AP trap thing... I figured he was either telling the truth or trying to draw out the wolves by telling the truth, so I didn't vote for him. But it didn't occur to me to warn my fellow wolves not to either :(. Also I was gone for the entire end of that day. (Being gone also dicked me over day two... there's no way the knife in box would have happened if I had been around.)

For figuring out Tps... that was easy, but based on faulty assumptions at the time. For one, I thought ap had been seered night two, so that he was a confirmed human. Therefore it would be clear that the seer would vote to save him and kill me. As it is, because I was seered night two and ap was 90% human, the seer would STILL vote to save him and kill me, so most of my reasoning still made sense.

AP wasn't the seer because his trick entirely depended on him being green, a blue would never risk that. Nforcer, stretchy, and mead couldn't be the seer because they voted ap. flypie couldn't be the seer because she voted ld instead of trying to kill me and save ap. Obviously ld and blah weren't the seer. I ruled out snapps because... well I just ruled him out. That left kilga, tass, and tps. Kilga I thought was being too inactive, which means it was either tass or tps. Tass we couldn't risk attacking, so tps was the logical choice.

Btw tass, the reason you stayed alive so long was much less your new playing style and much more the fact that we couldn't risk attacking you, either by day or night.

And flypie, you made yourself really obvious that last day. Even I saw it immediately, and I was just watching at that point.

Anyway ld and blah, good job boys.

[dAnceguy117]

Sup guys. Didn't play in this TWG, of course, but somethin' I'd like to say. After this absolutely horrendous jTWG (it kinda died during day 2 or 3 or something), whether jTWG is abolished or not.. I have a feeling quite a few jTWG players will want to move up to TWG. I know I want to, Jake (hydrojakep) wants to, and then.. I think a couple others said they did, too. And this was even before the Mindfields mishap or anything.

Oh, and to comment on this TWG. All of the criticism from Chardish sounds awfully familiar, because that's what's been happening in jTWG since jTWG IV, only not nearly as bad XD Kind of a boring scenario since that's what I'm used to, after playing in 5 jTWGs (shudder. No, I'm serious.). Nice job to Talisman for picking out TPS, because honestly, that's what screwed the humans over. Not just because it's the seer, but had there been another special role alive, maybe the humans would've been more active. And good job to ld and blah, of course.

About the win-loss system, hate to repeat everyone else, but I think that's needed changing for a long time. I think that alone could make the next game all that much better.

[talisman]

Also... let's not forget that the reason this game was so inactive was due to who got taken out of it early...

blah, ld and I are all pretty decently active players (maybe blah not so much as of late), and we're of course going to target strong active players for our kills (hans and eb). The only really active people left who contributed stuff then were tass and ap, and ap got lynched and tass was trying to be quiet.

If the wolves had been, for example, flypie, mead, and snapps... there's no way they could have gotten rid of all the active people very early and the game would have, on a whole, been a lot more active.

in conclusion... before we start saying that this is the end of twg as we know it etc etc, consider that a lot of this game's inactivity was due to conspiring circumstances.

[Kilgamayan]

Also, the reason that the game is getting boring again is because its been the exact same crap every time for a while now. go to the princeton mafia site and add some roles. I just don't want to host because i'd rather play., but there are a ton of great variations to expound upon. (Next person should do kingmaker and one of the other roles) Hell, I'd absolutely love to come up with a set of roles and rules for a game if someone else is willing to do the hosting.

...

But all the game really needs is a little spicing up, so start looking in the right direction and stop being misguided.

You missed chardish's point entirely.

That aside, I want to host Game 17, and it will not only see 8 of 16 people have non-green roles, but everyone will be given information mid-game. Hopefully this will cause the interest level to skyrocket.

(And I would rather it be the one final game before we immerse the jTWG folks into the regular game, if that's what we end up doing.)

[Tps222]

Tass, do you still have our aim conversations? I knew I was going to die after I realized the lack of substance in my votes. I wish I could have changed it, but I couldn't. My gut served me well this game. Wanting to seer LD night 3 was my first choice, but me and Tass decided on Stretchy, which was fine, played her last wolf game great. I agree on the phantom rule, and feel that we need a smaller player limit, 12 or 14. Rebalance it and everything, too many innactive and people just not caring, and the stretch for people to signup lately. I couldn't help my phantom on day 1, but I was active the whole game, and I really don't want to take a break.

[Omeganitros]

A GFG to LD, I never even thought of him being a wolf. Blah, however, crossed my mind more than a few times.



And yeah, I feel really bad about how the game turned out. Big pile 'o poo.

[Tasselfoot]

Exactly Talisman... you said things very well. To LD: By the time you figured out Flypie (which, yes... was SO obvious from her post, just like TPS), it didn't matter.

Also, I suspected that is why I didn't die. In the past... you thought the guardian was dead. This game, you had no idea. And yes, I was guarded every single night (I believe).

The wolves played well. Nobody is putting that fact down. The rest of us sucked.

*sigh* I am kicking myself for not following through with my logic, especially on Blah, who I had pegged solid.

[flypie743]

By the time you figured out Flypie (which, yes... was SO obvious from her post, just like TPS), it didn't matter.

Exactly. I knew I was being obvious, but I dunno..it's like the game wasn't getting anywhere so I figured what the hell and posted. I had a strong feeling 2 wolves were left, and it was pretty much over from there.

[HansSky]

You guys are a bunch of jerks. I knew that I had a high risk of dying on night 1, but apparently nobody else did. As for the TWG apocalypse....later. Too tired.

[JurseyRider734]

That sucks. If I wasn't banned, I probably would have brought some kind of interesting stupidity to the game. If you guys picked me as a host, you all would have had fun playing my Lotr style game. Now you guys ruined your chances on me being an awesome host because all my files are gone.

[Tps222]

Or if we played my totally unbalanced towards the humans type game............

I really don't want to see TWG go, but it seems as less and less people are caring about it at all, I agree with Blah, we need some mroe variations, people are getting sick of being green game after game. You pretty much are outside the loop if so. We need a big turnaround to revive this. Sorry if I am sounding pessimistic, but look at this game, most people either didn't care, self voted, 2 posts a day, phantomed, acting dumb, or giving self away in post(me).

Sucks that credit is getting taken away from LD and Blah though, good job.

[Kilgamayan]

There's always going to be greens. People just have to deal with it. aperson was a green and that didn't stop him from trying.

The point of this game was for the greens to use intuition and logic to deduce who the wolves were, not rely on blues. And look at what it showed. You guys caught one wolf, and only because he got seered. Sad state of affairs when so many people stop thinking for themselves and start relying on information from others.

[Tps222]

How about we play manhunt next?

That way we can develop logic and voting patterns.

[stretchypanda]

This is a pretty new occurrence, though. I mean, aside from the obvious fact that there was much less activity. Usually the humans figure the wolves out through their own powers of deduction -- even in games where one wolf (or more) has died but the wolves win anyway -- the first wolf to die (Afro in my game, Jursey in Hans' game, any others?) was pegged through logic.

I'm always very proud of wolves who win even after some of their team falls -- the urge to panic multiplies every time someone mentions your name (or maybe that's just me).

Blah, I should have had you after you apologized for voting for me. Way to catch me off guard. Well played. ; )

[HansSky]

I just want to ask something...

Can I get guarded next time?

[blahblah18]

being a green has nothing to do with not being active in a game. I'm usually a green, and I used to be the forerunner in attacking and searching ad exposing. I just didn't have to do that this game considerin I WAS the wolf. But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit

[JurseyRider734]

Blah, I know you've been busy lately, but you're sounding very hypocritical. The last, what, three games you've been almost completely silent? At least let someone who was posting a lot repremand everyone else on their inactivity. :\

[hydrojakep]

After reading this thread, i hope this isnt the end of twg. I just got done with jtwg and after realising how stupid it was i wanted to move up. Hell i pretty much won jtwgVI alone :\. Jtwg doesnt need to be erased completely, just changed... a lot. The hosts dont really know what they're doing (i'm serious) and the players are really inactive. The raffle idea sounded good at first, but now i'm thinking, how will we get regulars? Instead of abolishing jtwg, just add another twg. Sign ups would be 32 people, and the game is split according to "skill" and all that. That would be a good way to even games out.

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

ok, my thoughts is not to get rid of jTWG because first timers and beginners (like myself) need a place to learn. Instead, you should make the group smaller like -10 or something just to get a feel of the game.

[HansSky]

I agree with hydro. If you want to abolish jTWG, go ahead. But in replacement, make it a, uh, non-discriminatory game. TWG: Double Trouble, or whatever the hell you want to call it. I wouldn't say split the game according to skill, because that will certainly make the game more interesting.

Raffle idea: I don't like it. The people that are most dedicated to play the game are the people that make the 30 second sign up windows. It would NOT be a good idea to randomly pick, because you'll end up pulling people in who signed up for the hell of it, and won't be great at this whole activity thing.

-Two games at a time, no jTWG.
-Keep the timed sign ups.
-Maybe add in an All Star game every now and then, to maybe make a game to what it usually would be.

Also, I agree with talisman. Chardish, I think you may be overreacting a bit. One game of inactivity does not mean the end of TWG as we know it. Everything was circumstantial, the players that were killed, the way Tass was acting, etc. I think TWG needs a bit of renovation, but nothing major.

[evilbutterfly]

None of the blame for this can be put on me. :D I still play this game the same laid back way I've always played. I post a whole bunch to defend myself and point out obvious stuff people might have missed and depend on other people to figure it out, because I can't analyze people worth shit. Even if I had survived to the end, I'd probably just be pissed because I was the only one posting. But I never survive to the end, because I won't shut the hell up so the wolves shut me up for them. Assholes. :(

And I still believe the solution is an AIM TWG. It was attempted before but failed due to nobody being around to play it. I would love to sit on the computer for an hour or two and play a chat-based TWG, especially now that summer is here and I have plenty of time. The only limiting factor is whether or not the wireless will be a complete bitch and let me play or not, and I can always just ask to use mom's computer for a few hours, since it doesn't have as bad a wireless card and is closer to the router.

But really, people are most interested at the beginning of the game, especially when there's little time left in the day to vote. If you had 10-15 minute days where quick decisions had to be made and thoughts thrown out quickly to be analyzed and voted on, it would be a lot more fun. It'd be as close to real life Mafia we could get, given that we're all so far apart. If we could do AIM TWGs often enough, it would be a good arena to try new ideas quickly to see if they're worth doing a drawn-out TWG with.

But may be we do need a short break from TWG. I, personally, hardly ever play TWG anymore since I die all the time. Argh.

Oh, and another suggestion: every once in a while, play in a jTWG, and let jTWG people play in TWG. Being one of the smartest people in a game makes it more exciting, and gives you more of a chance to try out crazy stuff. It also helps the jTWG newbs learn some from the more experienced players (and even more if they get to be in TWG itself). Mixing it up like this will help jTWG people "graduate" to TWG faster, meaning we'll have more people and more interest. It will also spark more interest in the TWGers doing jTWG because they'll be at the top, where only a few of us have been before, and able to manipulate people. You get a whole new perspective on the game when you're in the different playing brackets (top player, middle player, terrible player). We've all been in the bad player phase, pretty much, but getting the experience as middle and top level players in a game makes it more interesting.

[chardish]

But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit
But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit
But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit
But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit
But I mean, all you pansies have to stop looking for exscuses as to why you odn't do jack shit
HE SPEAKS GREAT TRUTHS

[HansSky]

Blah, I know you've been busy lately, but you're sounding very hypocritical. The last, what, three games you've been almost completely silent? At least let someone who was posting a lot repremand everyone else on their inactivity. :\

So does she.

[lightdarkness]

Blah, I know you've been busy lately, but you're sounding very hypocritical. The last, what, three games you've been almost completely silent? At least let someone who was posting a lot repremand everyone else on their inactivity. :\

So does she.

So does he.

[dAnceguy117]

Blah, I know you've been busy lately, but you're sounding very hypocritical. The last, what, three games you've been almost completely silent? At least let someone who was posting a lot repremand everyone else on their inactivity. :\

So does she.

So does he.

QFE. lol rhymage

Actually, the quote I'd like to QFE is something Jake said on page 3.

The hosts dont really know what they're doing (i'm serious)

Now, I'm not trying to pick on any one host. But honestly, I want to play a game where the HOST knows the RULES. I want to be able to ask the host a question and get an answer (ps a correct one kthxbai), not an "I'll ask Tass."

I'm especially not trying to pick on Dan, since he's been having a hard time hosting and it's not his fault. I used this quote, though, to give as recent an example as I could.

ok, 5 votes on BBQ makes an instalynch. Psycho and Tank hasn't voted, so they each get phantoms.

sdajhbearjhbaejhbeac

That seriously pained me when I read it. The solution? Have people from TWG host jTWGs. This idea would be especially more relevant if we used the "get rid of the discriminating jTWG tag, just have two running TWG games" idea. I think this would give players more of a sense of security in the fact that the rules work. I know I haven't felt that way.. ever. I would say jTWG IV, but Spheroid (damn good host by the way) first tried a game with 14 people, or something like that, and the game got all screwed up and had to restart.

I think that's enough use of my brain today. Time to go play SMO and not think at all :>

[Tps222]

Yea, better hosts are needed for jTWG, and more dedicated players are needed. When I played with them, it was a sorry sight. Though, a few were very good (dan, ep, hydro). So, don't know what to do from here.

Chardish, what's up with INF 2 ?

[mead1]

I am really liking the sound of this two TWG suggestion. It answers all of our concerns, and generally makes everybody happy.

[hydrojakep]

Hey, my suggestion is popular. I think that seriously was the best thing said. And if not evened out, how about just random. You wont get to choose if you're in the "good game" or the "bad game". You're just in one of the two twg's. Sometimes you'll be in the same game as (super awesome twg guy/girl or not so super awesome twg guy/girl) so sometimes you'll be one of the more experianced or one of the less experianced.

[Tps222]

Eh, I really don't like the idea. It waters down TWG, and boosts up jTWG. I guess it would make the game interesting because we would be experiencing all new play styles. I do like Blah's suggestion of different variations. Gives us a bit of change.

[ddrruler]

I agree with hydro. If you want to abolish jTWG, go ahead. But in replacement, make it a, uh, non-discriminatory game. TWG: Double Trouble, or whatever the hell you want to call it. I wouldn't say split the game according to skill, because that will certainly make the game more interesting.

Raffle idea: I don't like it. The people that are most dedicated to play the game are the people that make the 30 second sign up windows. It would NOT be a good idea to randomly pick, because you'll end up pulling people in who signed up for the hell of it, and won't be great at this whole activity thing.

-Two games at a time, no jTWG.
-Keep the timed sign ups.
-Maybe add in an All Star game every now and then, to maybe make a game to what it usually would be.

Also, I agree with talisman. Chardish, I think you may be overreacting a bit. One game of inactivity does not mean the end of TWG as we know it. Everything was circumstantial, the players that were killed, the way Tass was acting, etc. I think TWG needs a bit of renovation, but nothing major.Yea that seems like the right thing to do but it would make the 'Elite' complain constantly....

[Demon_Of_The_Comet]

I agree with hydro. If you want to abolish jTWG, go ahead. But in replacement, make it a, uh, non-discriminatory game. TWG: Double Trouble, or whatever the hell you want to call it. I wouldn't say split the game according to skill, because that will certainly make the game more interesting.

Raffle idea: I don't like it. The people that are most dedicated to play the game are the people that make the 30 second sign up windows. It would NOT be a good idea to randomly pick, because you'll end up pulling people in who signed up for the hell of it, and won't be great at this whole activity thing.

-Two games at a time, no jTWG.
-Keep the timed sign ups.
-Maybe add in an All Star game every now and then, to maybe make a game to what it usually would be.

Also, I agree with talisman. Chardish, I think you may be overreacting a bit. One game of inactivity does not mean the end of TWG as we know it. Everything was circumstantial, the players that were killed, the way Tass was acting, etc. I think TWG needs a bit of renovation, but nothing major.Yea that seems like the right thing to do but it would make the 'Elite' complain constantly....



I think if were gonna end JTWG and have a split TWG, we should try to make sure inactive bullshit doesnt happen again. It really kills a game, not to mention how hard it is for the humans to win.

BTW IMO the "elite" should just deal with it, they were in our shoes at one time.

[evilbutterfly]

So wait, are you saying we still have two completely separate signups and two completely separate TWGs? Then nothing would change. The oldbies would all sign up for #1 and leave #2 for the newbies. The thing to do is to have ONE signup thread. So like, 30 people sign up there. Half of them will randomly be put in game A and half in game B. That way there would be no picking and choosing which game you're in. You may get placed with a bunch of other people your skill level, or may be not. It would literally mix things up quite a bit.

Of course, there's the issue of games not ending at the same time, and that the huge signups may not fill quickly (we all know how slow jTWG signups can be). However, this would give us that needed "break" everybody has been talking about. If there's more time between TWGs, there's more build up and more anticipation for it, so there's more interest. Some people may complain, but a healthy TWG is better than a bunch of rapid-fire TWGs.

And I still think we should have an "ad" in Chit-Chat concerning TWG. I'm sure there are people who would gladly play and enjoy if they only knew it existed. Another sticky couldn't hurt, really, so why not make one in Chit-Chat?

[Tps222]

No they weren't, there never was a jTWG for the 1st 7 or 8 games. So, anyone who is "elite" was good from the beginning. I guess it's something you can improve on, but not too much. A lot of it is natural.

I wanna play again :(

[HansSky]

Eh, too many people will complain that we're whoring TWG around FFR. I don't think we want that right now.

[talisman]

I think the real problem with jTWG vs TWG is that in the former the average age is somewhere around 14 and in TWG is somewhere around 18... there's a real difference in the maturity of posts and general intellect. (You do get smarter between 14 and 18, trust me).

That said mixing might not be a bad thing, if it raises the standard of play for everyone.

[Tasselfoot]

Yup Yup Talisman...

No Sticky in Chit-Chat. There is one in CT, that is where it should be.

Demon... I was never at your level.

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

Of course, there's the issue of games not ending at the same time, and that the huge signups may not fill quickly (we all know how slow jTWG signups can be). However, this would give us that needed "break" everybody has been talking about. If there's more time between TWGs, there's more build up and more anticipation for it, so there's more interest. Some people may complain, but a healthy TWG is better than a bunch of rapid-fire TWGs.

Maby just have 1 or however many games (depending on the turnout) at one time, but only be allowed to start at like the first of the month. June 1, July 1, August 1, September 1...
This was there is anticipation, and there is enough time between games for people to sign up and become excited about TWG again. This would make it so that games don't become staggered.(sp?)

[Tps222]

I did notice the age difference as well. Though, I am the youngest player in TWG, (someone guess my age, Tass doesn't count) and at times it shows. I don't feel this as a lack of maturity, just more as a case of ill-logical or badly written post. I mainly act this way for fear of losing, or making a mistake, I have to take risks, so I hope I can get better.

I am starting to flip-flop to the 2 TWG idea, but where is Chardish on the INF 2 info?

[Mimru]

Is 11 ._.

[psychic25]

Ah.

As for my thoughts on all of this:

As someone said earlier, jTWG has its own following now. I do realize that many of the players are moving up to regular TWG, but I believe that there should be two games running simultaneously. When people actually become interested in the game again, there will be more than sixteen players wanting to play.

I also like EB's suggestion about the one huge signups. We really do need a break, and large signups, as he said, help to create impatience and excitement about the game.

And for the mixes of people:

I finally realized that the newbies who started off playing in regular TWG seem to learn a LOT faster than the newbies who started off playing in Junior. I see now that in order for new players to learn, they SHOULD play with more experienced players, so they push themselves harder. Therefore, I support the idea of a signup pool, in which every TWG player signs up and is randomly placed in one of two separate games.

[chardish]

Is 11 ._.

UUA!.

And now you're banned. Goodbye!

[talisman]

Sarcasm?

Otherwise, ouch.

[dAnceguy117]

Is 11 ._.

UUA!.

And now you're banned. Goodbye!

hahahaha

wait.. Are you serious? Isn't that a little harsh? And I could've sworn I remembered something about "either I'm 12 years old or I have my parents' permission" or something like that. Maybe I don't remember, it's been a long time. Should probably save this for gb though.

Back to TWG.. I like the idea of the one big signup thing.. but inactivity is such a huge problem in jTWG that if they got out into the real thing it would drag everyone else down. I think maybe.. there should be some sort of activity check for new players. Give them a random PM, and tell them to respond within 24 hours or something. I'm not really sure if that would work, as some people just won't be able to get on during those 24 hours, but something along the lines of it might work. If you let the inactives reach the TWGs it's going to create a very big problem.

[Kilgamayan]

The minimum age requirement for signing up for any web forum is 13.

Learn to read, people. Registration pages aren't always useless jargon.

[evilbutterfly]

I'm pretty sure you can do it with parent's permission, but you have to do ridiculous things in order to prove such permission. I can't remember, it's been a while since I signed up for any forums.

And uh, people who are gonna be inactive shouldn't play. We should give people inactivity warnings and make them public. Like, just keep a running total of how many times a person gets a phantom, or how many times they go an entire day without making a single post, and other stuff like that. You people keep all sorts of spreadsheets with data, so this extra info couldn't be too hard to add in (I'm not saying go back and look at previous games, just started recording it when these things happen in your game). Then, if somebody signs up and everybody sees that they've gotten like 50 phantoms and hardly ever post, they may opt to make them sit out the game if other people want to play. If they're so inactive, then they must not really care about the game, so making them sit out shouldn't bother them too much.

[Tasselfoot]

Uh... Pretty sure we're gooing to go with the 2 phantoms in 1 game = 1 game ban... any future phantom of any kind = permaban.

But, again.... TWC needs to talk.

[hydrojakep]

The three phantoms = perma ban is a little harsh. If they already have two phantoms in one game, there should be a reason that they're there. You need to talk to someone before you permaban them from this forum. If they have two phantoms, and someone sees that they're on their computer some time during twg day, then they have no excuse. But unexpected stuff does come up. I think a temp ban would be enough for two, but if a third one occurs in the same game, then how about just increase the tempban? If this bs happens in another game though, then something didnt come up, they just showed inintrest (is that a word) and should be permabanned.

[HansSky]

Permaban is fine...but...

I think there should be some sort of trial held for TWC before it happens.

[evilbutterfly]

Well sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. A giant ice storm could roll through and knock out power unexpectedly, somehow someone may accidentally get a nasty virus on all the computers and destroy them all, someone may get grounded for bad grades and be unable to sneak on (:cry: for Afrobean), or all sorts of things. I think if somebody gets a phantom they need to have a chance to explain themselves. Especially if other people can vouch for them, I think in some cases people should be "pardoned" for their lack of voting.

[chardish]

Nothing unexpected in my life has ever kept me away from internet for over 48 hours at a time. Especially not more than 96.

Go to a library, if you have to. A friend's house. But you have to realize when you sign up that TWG is a commitment.

[evilbutterfly]

Well I know all the things I listed could happen, because they actually have happened. It's rare though, so usually if somebody is inactive for a few days it's their own fault. But I mean, if they drop off the face of the internet entirely, there's probably something amiss. But if we keep seeing them posting elsewhere on FFR, well.....they're lame and deserve a tempban.

[JurseyRider734]

Well seriously, it's called responsibility. If you don't have it, get it. If you're incapable of getting it, don't sign up for TWG. When I wasn't able to be online because I had other things I had to do or had to be at, I talked on the phone to people that I was playing with in TWG. Well, the allied ones, at least.

[evilbutterfly]

You guys aren't being very forgiving at all. Jurs, most people don't talk to people on the phone that they've met on internet forums. On AIM, yes, but on the phone? Not an extremely common thing. Also, if you can't get on the computer but are able to call someone, how can you trust them to post for you unless you are both wolves? If you're human and they're not, they could easily, after you give them your password, post on your account that you are a wolf or something and get you killed.

Seriously guys, all I'm saying is that people should have a chance to explain, and if their explaination really shows a good reason why they couldn't get on, they should be pardoned. There ARE situations where computers stop being available that CAN suddenly come up without you knowing beforehand, when you signed up. Especially since most of the users here are still kids whose parents have control of them in the end, a lot of things are out of people's hands.

[HansSky]

^Agreed.

[JurseyRider734]

You guys aren't being very forgiving at all. Jurs, most people don't talk to people on the phone that they've met on internet forums. On AIM, yes, but on the phone? Not an extremely common thing.

I'm talking about the people that already had my phone number. You know, so that you can at least be filled in on what's happening/when the deadlines are and so on. That's just what I did. I mean, it's one thing if a person is playing a bunch and then can't anymore because they got grounded or something. But let's jog your memory. Remember Gamepro a few games ago? He didn't play...at all. Whatsoever. Another thing is when the game is being played and someone is in it who isn't active, but you see on AIM all the time. I'm kind of reminding myself of blah, here. Yes, he had his finals, but he knew he did. He shouldn't have signed up unless he knew he would be able to actively participate throughout the game and put in some kind of dedication to the game. All i'm saying is, don't sign up if you're going to act like that.

[evilbutterfly]

Well I know that, but Chardish was all like "oh well I always have a computer blah blah blah" and I thought it was really insensitive of him that he didn't even recognize that some things are out of our control.

[chardish]

I don't always have a computer, but I can always get to a computer. Friends, other people in the house, public libraries.

[dAnceguy117]

I'm with Chardish on this one. Odds are, you have a friend. You should be able to get to their house, look things over, and make a vote before the day ends. TWG days are pretty long anyway. If something happens so that you don't have a working computer too late in the TWG day to get to someone else's computer, you should've already made your vote.

I guess there are some very extreme circumstances when you can't get to a computer at all. Those are so extreme that they're hardly worth mentioning, though. It would have to be something like you get grounded from the computer, you have no friends within walking / bike riding distance, your car breaks down, and your mom is so obsessed with good manners that she won't let you call someone and ask them to pick you up. Oh, and the public library is too far away to ride your bike to or something.

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about that.

EDIT: oh right I meant carS. How about all of your family cars are struck by a meteor.

[Demon_Of_The_Comet]

hey now, as far as i know im the only guy in Georgia that plays JTWG/TWG. My DSL goes out from time to time and it usually takes like 5 hours to get it back up. Either that or i have to call Bellsouth cuz i forgot to pay the bill -_-
No one is within any distance of me and the closest Library is in Atlanta. im not saying "hey give me a break im the only guy around here!" im just mentioning theres no one around me that i can call, and no computers nearby -_-

[HansSky]

My library is 30 minutes away in a car.

And how much of an asshole would you look like asking your friend to use their computer?

"Hey, can I use your PC?"
"Sure, why?"
"I need to make a vote for a game on an internet forum."
"...That's it, that's why you called me?"
"...Yeah."

I still think this is being taken too seriously.

[Kilgamayan]

I still think this is being taken too seriously.

Look where we are and what we're discussing.

[evilbutterfly]

I still think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying we should let everybody off the hook, I'm saying we should give them a chance to explain themselves. If we KNOW they were able to get on a computer (like, we see them post elsewhere, or talk to them on AIM) and they STILL don't vote, well of course that's stupid of them. However, sometimes we don't know, and there will be times when somebody can't get a computer to post on. It's rare, but we should still give people a chance to explain why they didn't vote, if they have an extreme case.

[Tps222]

I wanna play again, when's the next game going to start.

[talisman]

I'm assuming it will start as soon as this jtwg ends... if we're going to implement the pool system.

[dAnceguy117]

Don't expect another TWG for at least a week... probably more.

I agree with you about the break though. A month sounds good.

>:l

[evilbutterfly]

I hope it starts when the jTWG ends and we at least try the pooling system once. If it fails and we still don't have a game going after a week of pooling, we'll just take the first however many that sign up, start a game, and leave the rest as signups for jTWG. We should at least try to pool the signups.

[Tps222]

We need some sort of grand tournament all-star game. That way people will have an extra motivation to work to.

[dAnceguy117]

Grand tournament? Tournaments involve individuals, and the winning system in TWG now is by team =/

[psychic25]

As long as winning is now by team...

Wouldn't it make sense to bring back... *flinches* MVP?

Or something of the sort. Possibly, in postgame, have everybody who thinks they have qualifications to be an (yes, plural) MVP submit a statement. Then, either the host, or everybody, picks their top three choices, and the three players with the most votes win an MVP point. (Note that anybody is qualified- I mean, if dying doesn't stop you from winning, why should dying nullify your chances to get MVP?)

Then, with the "grand all-star game", which would, indeed, generate a lot more interest, the sixteen (or possibly twelve, for a smaller game) players with the most points are the only ones who are eligible to play.

[alainbryden]

Hi everyone. Back online for a brief bit, and I read through the thread. Since I won't be affecting TWG for 3 months yet I won't interject much, but going off the feelings that I have heard from other TWG players and feel myself, I would like to suggest that TWC be disbanded and that we resort to a democracy. Everything about this game can be worked out without 5 people of their own agenda's deciding for the majority of the players.

That being said, have a nice summer.

~Love, Alain

[evilbutterfly]

I would like to suggest that TWC be disbanded and that we resort to a democracy.

QFE^2

I still don't see why it isn't like this already.

[chardish]

Because with democracy you have to deal with the issue of who gets to vote on all sorts of matters. It's a lot easier to sort things out with only a small group of people in charge.

The TWC was already democratically approved months ago.

[Kilgamayan]

Aw man, do we have to pool?

I wanted to host this game too. :(

[evilbutterfly]

The TWC was already democratically approved months ago.


Um, I don't remember voting for it? But whatever, I probably did and just didn't realize what it did, same way the humans voted for that change in Infiltration without realizing that it friggin screwed us over. Ugh.

And I think we should at least try pooling it. You can host, Kilga, just...you might have some newbers in your game.

[HansSky]

We didn't know what it really was going to be like when we voted for it. A bit extreme, but this is sorta like Nazi Germany and Russia, they voted for a dictatorship simply because it WASN'T communism.

Everybody I've talked to about TWC hates the idea of it, simply because of the fact that, ultimately, their opinion doesn't matter. It's always small discussion, then "Alright guys, this topic is being locked so TWC can talk this over."

It's just the idea that somebody's opinion and "personal agenda"(alain) is more righteous and important than others just because they have a title.

[dAnceguy117]

From the looks of the TWC thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=23690) everyone that posted thought it was just for dealing out punishment for cheaters =/

Plus, there's a fundamental flaw behind the whole thing. Remember the discrepancy over Chardish's tribal game, where three members of the TWC could overrule the other two? That's where power gets out of control.

[Tps222]

Wait, are you saying that 3 over 2 is unfair? How else can a decision be made without an odd number of people?

[talisman]

Personally, I'm cool with the TWC, but I'm all about starting another game.

so... let's start another game.

[Kilgamayan]

You can host, Kilga, just...you might have some newbers in your game.

That exactly why I don't want to now.

[Tps222]

Well, jTWG is over, so get the floats and the toys, the pool is open for business.

[blahblah18]

ok, this is probably juts because of the state of mind i'm in right now, but seriously fuck pooling and an of this other beauracratic crap. If someone wants to host a game, they can, and if they want to handpick who plays in it, let them, its THEIR game. there doesn't need to be some universal league or code of ethics to follow... its a person who creates a thread, and says they are hosting a game, and if they want people to play, then they play, id they dont' want others to play, then they dont' play... simple AS THAT

[Afrobean]

Personally, I'm cool with the TWC, but I'm all about starting another game.

so... let's start another game.
I agree totally. After so long without play, I'm itching to go.

[dAnceguy117]

Yay, finally got back on the computer. My friend is moving and he slept over and then I went swimming and then I ran with people from cross country and then I went lifting and then I went to Steak 'n Shake and then I came back here. That was a big ass run-on sentence, holy crap.

I definitely want to start another game, but I'm not sure if the pooling is such a good idea for THIS TWG. A lot of people are either taking a break from TWG or are dropping out because they don't like jTWG. This might not leave enough for a pool of 32 people. The signups for this TWG should probably be run normally, and then we can try the pooling after that.

Wait, are you saying that 3 over 2 is unfair? How else can a decision be made without an odd number of people?

What I was trying to say was that members of TWC can overrule the others to benefit themselves. The voting was hardly based on what should be right, and more on OMG GIV ME MAH PIP LIEK NOW. With the pips abolished, though, this might not be such of a problem anymore.

I've been thinking about the idea of TWC itself, and I really don't think it's that bad, now that I can sit back and just think about it instead of being faced with bad occasions. Sure, the TWC could go mad with power.. but they really haven't.

Also, about getting a say in what happens and what doesn't happen, I know I don't feel like that; I could really care less. Maybe TWC could be expanded for those who really feel strongly about getting a say in what happens.. but maybe they would have to be approved by the current TWC or something. I dunno, just a random thought.

ps Afrobean's back :>

[GuidoHunter]

What I was trying to say was that members of TWC can overrule the others to benefit themselves. The voting was hardly based on what should be right, and more on OMG GIV ME MAH PIP LIEK NOW. With the pips abolished, though, this might not be such of a problem anymore.

What.

I guess you're talking about the ill-fated tribal game. To let you know, there wasn't ever a TWC decision on that matter. We had nothing on which to deliberate. It was just host versus irate players, some of whom happened to be TWC members. I can tell you that TWC rulings have ever only been in the interest of the spirit of the game.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com