The Latest School Shooting

[Cj_leonine]

So a boy at my school was murdered yesterday and it's left me pondering.

- Is it normal for people to kill people?

What I mean is, is it apart of human nature for people to kill their own kind?

- What do you guys think about the upcoming generation?

Honestly, I think a vast majority of us are a bunch of F*ups who will aid in the destruction of our country. And I solely base this off of my peers.

- Who do we blame in a situation like this?

because that's all us silly Americans do is point the finger. Personally, I blame the parents. Beat your children and that will solve the trick.

...
"kid got shot gotta go post about it on FFR"
There, I said it for you.

[TrueBOSS]

I do think that beating the children will solve the problem. Kids that have never been beaten or gotten their A&%'s kicked in a fight tend to be ****y and believe that they can get away with anything because the rules protect them. Its these kids that are causing other people to shoot 'em. I blame Social Services with all that BS on spanking children should be outlawed.

[jamuko]

Have you read Lord of the Flies? It's relevant.

Also, a lot of times bad parents are to blame, but in the end it's the kid who did it, and no matter how bad the parents are it was the kid's conscious decision to go and kill someone. He's not an impressionable 5-year-old; he's probably close to being a legal adult (I don't know the age in this case, sorry) and he is responsible for his own actions. :/ Killing someone is not a simple mistake, and even with bad parents, that's a lot of years to experience enough outside of your own household to understand how killing is very very serious.

But instead of being angry at anyone, I just think it's plain sad. Sad that someone was killed, and sad that someone's life is messed up enough to drive him to kill a person. Clearly there is something very wrong with a person to cause him to do such a thing, and while it doesn't remove responsibility, it's still very sad.

[TrueBOSS]

People need to stop being c**ky, thinking the rules and laws protect them. They don't. They just execute a punishment but don't stop the actuall crime from happening to you. As I said, people who believe this tend to be c**ky and act like total p**^s to some people. Its the people they treat that way that are coming to school with a gun to shoot 'em. (In previous cases, this was the reason but I don't know if this is true about this one though. I felt the need to say this anyways) In this instince, the law didn't save the guy from getting murdered. It's just gonna exact a punishment on the killer. Some people need to realize to stop being so c**ky and far few shooting should occur. Sadly they still would occur though because some people are just looking for something stupid to do like this.

[sherbtail]

so your saying because this guy was coc*y he brought his death upon himself...
are you the same type of person who thinks that women who dress provocatively bring rape upon themselves?

[User_Name:]

I don't think you read the entire post,

Originally Posted by TrueBOSS

(In previous cases, this was the reason but I don't know if this is true about this one though. I felt the need to say this anyways)

Have you ever had people make your life a living hell? Abusive father? Teenagers attacking you when your in 1st grade because of your race?! Or maybe you never retaliated to people who harass you because you were much more afraid of what your father would do to you when he found out.

People who are pushed and harassed much more then others can eventually snap and do something crazy, if everyone understood that I don't think they would push people to the braking point so frequently.

[TrueBOSS]

I'm not saying this guy but I'm saying thats the tendency and the #1 cause. I'm saying that treating someone like S*%& is gonna come bite you in the A%& and lately, that bite in the A&% someone deciding to come to school with a gun. I'm not saying that people should change, just that they should realize what they're doin my come out like that.

Originally Posted by sherbtail

are you the same type of person who thinks that women who dress provocatively bring rape upon themselves?

No, I'd say that she should know that her being raped could be a consequence to doing that and remember that she made that choice to dress like if it did happen. You should always prepare yourself for the grimmer consequences of your actions. And know you played a part in causing it. Don't point a finger solely on other. But don't just blame yourself.

[MalReynolds]

Originally Posted by TrueBOSS

No, I'd say that she should know that her being raped could be a consequence to doing that and remember that she made that choice to dress like if it did happen. You should always prepare yourself for the grimmer consequences of your actions. And know you played a part in causing it. Don't point a finger solely on other. But don't just blame yourself.

I woke up today. I might get hit by a bus.

You're an ass, you know that, that has no understanding of the human mind.

[Chrissi]

Originally Posted by TrueBOSS

I'm not saying this guy but I'm saying thats the tendency and the #1 cause. I'm saying that treating someone like S*%& is gonna come bite you in the A%& and lately, that bite in the A&% someone deciding to come to school with a gun. I'm not saying that people should change, just that they should realize what they're doin my come out like that.

No, I'd say that she should know that her being raped could be a consequence to doing that and remember that she made that choice to dress like if it did happen. You should always prepare yourself for the grimmer consequences of your actions. And know you played a part in causing it. Don't point a finger solely on other. But don't just blame yourself.

But a woman SHOULD be able t dress "provocatively" without the consequence being rape. It is a fact in our society that men will say things like that are the reason for raping them, but in reality, it is not. I am sure that women who dress "conservatively" are just as likely to be raped as one who is "provocative". In the conservatively dressed case, a man might say she's frigid and needed a good fucking as the excuse for raping her.

Also, provocative and conservative are relative, not absolute. In some other cultures as well as in the past in our own cultures, showing an ankle might (have been/be) considered provocative.

In other words, the way a woman dresses is no catcall for rape, it is just an excuse men use.

Also, along the lines of MalReynolds: I woke up today. I might get raped. It is a fact that in the western world women are at a high risk of being raped, just by LIVING and BREATHING. I have heard figures up to 2/3rds, but if I had to take a guess I'd say 1/4. You might think "Hey, I don't know any women who have been raped", but you probably do - most women do not talk about it. I know at least 3 women who have been raped, as well as myself, but there are countless more who probably have not spoken up, or have repressed it, or don't even know they were raped. Then again, I am biased, being a victim myself. I was a child, less than 11 years old. Do you think it is likely that I dressed "provocatively"? I had a toy camera, and was taking pretend pictures, the way kids will do. The person who raped me said that he did it because I took pictures of him. Men will use any excuse.

[Reach]

Violence against your own is probably evolutionary, since us and our little ancestors over there in the jungle are one of the only ones that do such things to our own. We are the only two species that engage in genocide.

It would be interesting to learn why such a behavior would evolve though, since it seems anti-evolutionary. There must be a benefit of being violent towards others of the same species. It could also be a by-product of greater self realization.

Society as a whole sort of functions as a mechanism to try and strip violent, primative behaviors from us but that doesn't mean they're not still there. That and people arn't and will never be born equals, hence differences in ideologies and morality arise, and as such there are all sorts of different people, including ones that wreck havok on society.


The upcoming generation? I mean, they should be similar to other generations. Violent. We've been violent as a species for a million years now, that isn't going to change unless something dramatic happens.

Who do we blame? Who do you think? Whoever the shooter was. Pointing the finger doesn't solve anything, but a key self realization is that you and only you are responsible for your actions (excluding special cases). It is self evident that part of the problem is bad parenting, but in the end a child must learn to shape themselves and take responsibilities.

I wouldn't blame my bad habits or poor choices on my moms parenting skills, but rather on myself.

[TrueBOSS]

Originally Posted by Chrissi

In other words, the way a woman dresses is no catcall for rape, it is just an excuse men use.

Thats the truth, thats why I don't make excuses for myself. However, tell this to all the people stupid enough to engage in this kind of bull S&%^ all together. There's always a group of people that arn't considered and I don't mean to leave them out. In the womans case, the suggestion I was trying to get out is to always be ready for something like that to happen and know what to do if it does.
Oh yeah, and MalReynolds, I wasn't talking about the consequences of what we do that the average person does. I'm talking about doing the things the average person doesn't do. I consider these things in many situations in my life. By doing this, I have failed to ever make a single enemy and have gained much respect.

[jamuko]

Reach always says everything I'm thinking, better than I can.

Listen to the guy.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by Reach

Who do we blame? Who do you think? Whoever the shooter was.

You can say this until you're blue in the face. The reality is the shooters often take 50% of the blame because the media desires to find a reason why the kid did the deed. They blame the parents for lax gun control, they blame a school teacher or coach because they pushed the kid to apply himself or to actually try.

You all remember the Columbine shootings and how the media blamed Doom because it was a violent video game they played.

Originally Posted by Reach

It would be interesting to learn why such a behavior would evolve though, since it seems anti-evolutionary

At first glance it seems anti-evolutionary, but if you believe in Darwinisim and the "only the strong survive" quote, then this has applications. We fight over territories like any other animal, but unlike other animals we eliminate weaker races so we can maintain dominance.

[MalReynolds]

Originally Posted by TrueBOSS

Oh yeah, and MalReynolds, I wasn't talking about the consequences of what we do that the average person does. I'm talking about doing the things the average person doesn't do. I consider these things in many situations in my life. By doing this, I have failed to ever make a single enemy and have gained much respect.

Right, so now you're treading on what is 'normal,' which is pretty damn subjective. What society considers normal and what is normal in a social environ are two entirely different things - dressing provocativley is likely to happen because it's how someone is to dress in a social environ.

But along those lines, if I were a rapist, skirts are a lot less work to go around.

But I'm not

[sherbtail]

hmm, a slightly random interjection but can I just draw attention to the Bonobo (pygmy chimp) which doesn't ever kill its own species. It split off from chimp evolution a long way back and it's an amazing species. It lives in a female dominated society and all they ever do all day is have sex and forage a bit for food. They have all types of sex, with either gender and when two rival tribes mate, the females swap tribes and have sex with the males.

If only we had evolved from these guys eh? stupid normal chimps...

Sorry for the semiofftopicness

[slipstrike0159]

Originally Posted by Cj_leonine

So a boy at my school was murdered yesterday and it's left me pondering.

- Is it normal for people to kill people?

What I mean is, is it apart of human nature for people to kill their own kind?

I think that what you need to understand is that as humans (or even as animals) we have a natural tendency to show superiority and to protect what we want to keep. Killing has always been an instinct and it can be triggered by pressure, or even severe anger. Anger at other people because they believe differently from you, from fear that you may lose something, or from the thought of being less superior on the evolutionary chain. I think that our chances of killing own species increased a lot because we have the ability to think complicated thoughts and interact with others based on these thoughts.

Im not saying that murder is excusible by any means or reason, im just saying that in nature, we have an instinct to kill. There are many reasons that may push someone to something like that because of our complicated thinking abilities, but because of that ability we should also be able to see what a bad idea it is and why it should not be followed through with. Personally i see it as all being related to personal restraint that is affected by what you are taught and what you believe.

[Cj_leonine]

Originally Posted by slipstrike0159

I think that what you need to understand is that as humans (or even as animals) we have a natural tendency to show superiority and to protect what we want to keep. Killing has always been an instinct and it can be triggered by pressure, or even severe anger. Anger at other people because they believe differently from you, from fear that you may lose something, or from the thought of being less superior on the evolutionary chain. I think that our chances of killing own species increased a lot because we have the ability to think complicated thoughts and interact with others based on these thoughts.

I think your'e right

[Just drawing conclusions from what I've seen]In cases like this though I don't think we kill as apart of our instincts but more of a feeling to really just hurt something when people feel certain intense emotions which sometimes lead to murder.

[slipstrike0159]

Yeah thats what i meant but what i was also saying was that because of those intense emotions and whatnot that primal need to kill is invoked at least somewhat. It might even be that they just think about it for a minute, it all depends on how long they linger on the thought and actually let their emotions take hold of them.

[KC-THE-KING]

I have personally questioned bringing a gun to school once...I dont think tis a good idea to post on here...but im going to seeing as I have already told my school about it. I wanted to do it because of people...constantly hammering on me and my ideas...i guess i should have just learned to shut my mouth. But, I can't do that because to me it was a good idea...I have always been a very agressive person and relitively violent (i hospitalized a kid for pantsing me). I know that when I thought about it i wanted to make them know that its not alright...ITS NOT OK TO HARRASS PEOPLE FOR THEIR IDEAS, CLOTHING, SEX, GENDER, RACE, PHYSICAL APPEARANCE, OR WORDS.

I see that what TrueBOSS has said makes the closest comparison to what I am saying...Yes by purposely harrassing someone because they think differently they are bringing punishment upon themselves, and I personally feel that if I have to be the one to exact that punishment, It is really my duty to make it happen.

Sc hools don't do anything about it. Teachers tell the students to stop and they simply don't take it seriously. When I brought it to the principal he said he would stop it...the people who were harrassing me just used that against me. They called me a pussy and whatnot. If the school system can't do anything...then the police...and they simply showed me out of the Police School Liasons office, assumed it was nothing...

At this point it had been going on for long enough...I decided to take one of the harrassers out...I am a decently built guy...I took him against the wall, and broke his nose. They punished me for my violent act. Understandable. But now that they knew I was serious i assumed something would be done...people don't usually do that, due to the consequences, which I like the current physical consequences. But, as I was given a citation and In School suspension, I was still not heard and after I was allowed back to class the 3 days later I was harrassed for that as well...It is still going on...but I realize that a gun is not going to help me at all...one person isnt worth that...but with the current news coverage it is getting and threads like this it may actually do something. If people realize that some people will go to extremes, even to silence one person. The news will make people know that this does happen *from her on is worded incorrectly and is subject to a little flexibility* and that if you dont want to end up at gun point you should learn some respect. I guess thats really all i have to say at this point...I think i need serious help... I dont know. I hope that people realize that words hurt more than fists...much deeper and much longer...a bone will heal, a soul will not.

[slipstrike0159]

I understand full well what you are saying, but one thing you gotta realize is that no matter how much of it goes on it is still just small stuff that you shouldnt give any thought into. If people always worried about the little things other people did, then no one would be friends and everyone would hate each other. If anything, you should learn to not let it bother you. I know what you are talking about because i thought about doing that once but it was only for a moment, i never took it anywhere. I thought the best thing would be to leave that school and go to another one but i decided to stay even though it didnt stop. Later i basically stopped caring what they said altogether, we moved up into high school and none of it was a problem anymore. If you distance yourself from them and not let it get to you, then you wont have a problem and thats what i learned.