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Old 05-31-2006, 01:48 AM   #1
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Default Christianity and Control

This will probably be locked, but hey, whatever.

Christianity incorporates many “control” techniques to both entice new members and to keep them.

The first of these I will call “The Belonging Technique”, or TBT.

TBT has been used by many modern day cults as well as Christianity. Basically it invokes a special feeling of “brotherhood” between the members of the religion. It helps Christians feel different and somewhat superior to the hedonistic “outside” world. It makes them feel as if they can fit in, as if they “belong”. (Hence the name of the technique.) In order to belong many Christians are willing to overlook the fallacies and the acts of other Christians. In this way Christianity becomes an almost exclusive club. A club where all others are doomed, and only Christians can be saved. Thus adding to the bond between Christians.

The ways Christianity accomplishes this are incredibly visible, but often overlooked. First, the aforementioned damnation of all non-Christians, helps Christians feel exclusive. Also, lets not forget the rituals that many Christian churches perform. Even the smallest and seemingly innocent rituals add to TBT. Singing praises for example, that can be compared to ritualized chanting that a lot of other cults use. The singing brings together these Christians, and once again, reinforces exclusivity and brotherhood. Lets not forget communion, all the Christians stand in line and follow each other, once again the sense of brotherhood, then they receive the bread or wine, a sense of exclusivity. Now, somewhat of an ironic metaphor for this is they way they lead sheep to the slaughter. At the entrance of the slaughterhouse is the “Judas” sheep, this sheep is there for one single reason, to keep the other sheep calm and lead them into the slaughterhouse, where they are summarily executed. Now I am not saying that Christians will be lead to some sort of philosophical or literal slaughter. It is a literal, real world example of what TBT can do. These sheep believe that they all belong to the same group, however the Judas sheep is only their to control them.

Another way TBT is accomplished is providing a united front against a common enemy. At first it was Satan, the cause of all evil and wrongdoings, the literal boogeyman lurking in the proverbial shadows. But as time passes, less people are prone to believe in Satan. Christian leaders have noticed this and have even gone so far as to imagine up opposition for Christians in order to keep them on their toes. The “War Against Christmas” is a good example of this. If Christians believe that they are under attack, they can gather up their brothers in arms and rise up against the evil outside world and its insidious enemies. But TBT is only the first of these techniques.

Christians are taught that God is omnipotent and all seeing, that everything goes according to his plan. This discourages Christians from seriously questioning their faith. Rather than look at some of the impossibilities in scripture they merely dismiss them as works of God’s omnipotence. Here is a real life example: I was talking to a person who believes in the young Earth theory, I pointed out that if they Earth was really as young as he said it to be, the light from many of the stars would not have reached Earth yet. His response? “God put the light there.” By bringing that kind of logic to the table a Christian cannot possibly find fault with Christianity because God can do anything. Multiply fish, rise from the dead, etc. Anything is possible under that belief. And questioning it is useless and sometimes even openly discouraged.

Also let us not forget the guilt techniques used in order to make Christians feel indebted to God. Now there is never going to be a preacher that says you should feel guilty because humankind has been nothing but trouble to God. But there are many subliminal messages used. The whole entire Old Testament is basically a guilt trip to for humanity. We got kick out of Eden, Sodom and Gomorrah, humanity fell from God’s graces dozens of times. And lets not forget Jesus dying to save us from our “sins” . All these stir up the emotion that says. “Hey, God went through all this for us, we should give thanks, worship him, etc.” No Christian will actually blatantly realize this however, that is why this is a subliminal technique.

The last and most commonly presented technique is good old fashioned fear. Fear of rotting in Hell for not being a Christian. A phenomenon that applies to virtually all religions is that they all have and explanation of what happens after death. Usually, the followers of the religion will end up with some glorious reward, and all others will be doomed. Why do most religions incorporate this? Because it answers some of the most eternal questions in a quick and easy manner. One of these question is the question of life after death, Heaven and Hell wrap that up quite nicely. Another is the meaning of life. Who can know the meaning of life unless one has previously lived? Also, Christians believe that they will transcend their bodies and enter an enlightened state. What better way to figure out the mysteries of the universe? However, if you are not a Christian, you will burn in a pit of fire for eternity. This scares up a very intimidating argument for Christianity. Join us, or burn in Hell. Now, that is probably the most blatant scare tactic to ever grace a pulpit.



Now discuss.
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

:starting with the end first:

Joshua 24:14-15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

14 "Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, ---->then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve<----, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Christianity isn't a scare tatic trying to get you believe through the thought of hell. It's not join us or burn in hell. It's worship God or worship any one you want, just dont be indecisive about it.

:back to the beginning:

Christians aren't taught to be better than other people or to see themselves as superior. They are taught to humble themselves because everyone is equal.

Quote:
In order to belong many Christians are willing to overlook the fallacies and the acts of other Christians.
Christians are taught to act out of love for others. Not condone other people's actions to benefit themselves.

Umm I don't see how singing praises to God reinforces brotherhood. The praises aren't meant for other people. They are meant for God and God only.

Quote:
At first it was Satan, the cause of all evil and wrongdoings, the literal boogeyman lurking in the proverbial shadows. But as time passes, less people are prone to believe in Satan.
At first? It still is Satan. If people are starting to doubt Satan then they can go ahead and doubt all of Christianity itself.

Quote:
Christian leaders have noticed this and have even gone so far as to imagine up opposition for Christians in order to keep them on their toes. The “War Against Christmas” is a good example of this.
This "War Against Christmas" isn't in the Bible. If you're using people's own ideas to help your argument on how Christianity is controlling when it isn't Christianity but some people with some skewed ideas then it doesn't do any good.

Quote:
If Christians believe that they are under attack, they can gather up their brothers in arms and rise up against the evil outside world and its insidious enemies.
lol you make it sound like christians are paranoid nutjobs sitting in a foxhole getting ready to go to war on anything

Quote:
Christians are taught that God is omnipotent and all seeing, that everything goes according to his plan. This discourages Christians from seriously questioning their faith. Rather than look at some of the impossibilities in scripture they merely dismiss them as works of God’s omnipotence.
You can seriously question your faith by researching other beliefs out there. And sure, yes, it's not easy to just believe a man lived on earth for 33 years without sinning and died on a cross for everyones sins and defied the laws of death by rising from the dead 3 days later, but thats where faith comes in to play. There have been non-biblical history accounts of a man named Jesus. So with the fact in front of you it's easy to believe a man named Jesus at least existed, but with everything else said about him in the bible, that takes faith. The same faith it takes to believe there was a big bang and the earth was created. The same faith it takes to believe the earth is however many billion years old.

Quote:
Also let us not forget the guilt techniques used in order to make Christians feel indebted to God.
Depends on perspective.
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Last edited by NuclearShadow; 05-31-2006 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Thank you Nuclear.
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:09 AM   #4
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearShadow
:starting with the end first:

Joshua 24:14-15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

14 "Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, ---->then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve<----, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Christianity isn't a scare tatic trying to get you believe through the thought of hell. It's not join us or burn in hell. It's worship God or worship any one you want, just dont be indecisive about it.
But it also doesn't leave much of an option. Sure go ahead, worship those other Gods, see you in hell.


Quote:
Christians aren't taught to be better than other people or to see themselves as superior. They are taught to humble themselves because everyone is equal.
That's what they are outright taught. The feeling is, "I'm God's servant, these other evil outsiders are not."

Quote:
Umm I don't see how singing praises to God reinforces brotherhood. The praises aren't meant for other people. They are meant for God and God only.
Singing all toghether in a chorus or singing hyms all together at a Church reenforces the idea that they are all together in an exclusive club, and all others are outside this club.



Quote:
At first? It still is Satan. If people are starting to doubt Satan then they can go ahead and doubt all of Christianity itself.
Sure the Bible says Satan, and while the Modern Christian still believes in Satan, they are much less apt to connect his influence between bad events and him. It is the way the Modern Christian mindset has evolved.



Quote:
This "War Against Christmas" isn't in the Bible. If you're using people's own ideas to help your argument on how Christianity is controlling when it isn't Christianity but some people with some skewed ideas then it doesn't do any good.
No duh the "War on Christmas" is not in the Bible. It was produced by Christian evangelists and pundits to stir up their Christian base. A control technique. Just because it's not in the Bible, doesn't mean it is not happening.



Quote:
lol you make it sound like christians are paranoid nutjobs sitting in a foxhole getting ready to go to war on anything
Some are, but Christian leaders would love it if all of them did.



Quote:
You can seriously question your faith by researching other beliefs out there. And sure, yes, it's not easy to just believe a man lived on earth for 33 years without sinning and died on a cross for everyones sins and defied the laws of death by rising from the dead 3 days later, but thats where faith comes in to play. There have been non-biblical history accounts of a man named Jesus. So with the fact in front of you it's easy to believe a man named Jesus at least existed, but with everything else said about him in the bible, that takes faith. The same faith it takes to believe there was a big bang and the earth was created. The same faith it takes to believe the earth is however many billion years old.



Depends on perspective.
Yes, blind, unquestioning faith. I never got how faith is always refered to as a good thing. How bout this, hey, let me borrow you're credit card, I'll give it back. If you give it to me on faith alone, you are going to get screwed
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

The Bible was frozen even before the Dark Ages. Luckily some sects of Christianity (i.e. Catholicism) seem to have done vast and sweeping reforms in the recent past (i.e. The Second Vatican Council), to make Christianity more, uh, right lol

For example, the officially endorsed Catechism of the Catholic Church contains a lot of stuff that is counter to Grandiagod's points. One I remember learning is "The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in other religions". Another is something like "The Church is not the author of our salvation, but rather its mother" i.e. the whole "community" thing is just basically a support group to help you get in touch with God, you shouldn't let yourself be controlled by it and you should think for yourself.

There's tons of other stuff in there, so I suggest that you take a look through that to see something of a more modern Christian mindset. It can be found at http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm . Of course this only applies to Catholics, really.

Unfortunately a lot of Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, are still stuck in the dark ages in terms of theology, and are using religion as a stupid excuse to do stupid things. I wasn't raised in any particular religion, and until I took a class in Catholic Theology I was convinced that religion was a total waste of time. But it seems modern Catholic theology has managed to avoid offending me I still don't believe in it, but it has become MUCH more plausible and MUCH less ridiculous than it was back in the days of the Crusades.

-fs
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Pssh It's funny how you seem to want to use mind control BS to describe Christianity but neglect how Muslims are taking the Koran to an extreme length in order to justify thier current Jihad. =/
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer
Pssh It's funny how you seem to want to use mind control BS to describe Christianity but neglect how Muslims are taking the Koran to an extreme length in order to justify thier current Jihad. =/
First of all, not a real point. Second, if I knew half as much about Islam as I do Christianity, maybe I would.
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Old 05-31-2006, 12:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

I am watching this closely... and can already see the lock.

Just a FYI... there really is no way to discuss religion without a "my god beat up your god" mentality, and that isn't acceptable. Turns into 1 person with 1 iron-fisted mindset vs another person with the opposite mindset. Then more join the cause on each side... and we have all out God War.
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Old 05-31-2006, 01:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod
...That's what they are outright taught. The feeling is, "I'm God's servant, these other evil outsiders are not."

Singing all together in a chorus or singing hyms all together at a Church reenforces the idea that they are all together in an exclusive club, and all others are outside this club.
Christians are to follow the Great Commission (given by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20), which states that we are to go to all ethnic/people groups and preach the Gospel. The reason for worship is to get together to praise and thank God for who He is and what He's done/will do. Part of this involves bringing in non-Christians in the hopes of their future belief in Jesus Christ so that they can take part in the same eternal blessing that current Christians have been given. Thanks is due to God, not ourselves.

If Christians took the attitude of 'We're better than everyone else and nobody else deserves to be with us,' they'd have a totally wrong attitude. Without God's grace, we would end up in hell, and it's our responsibility to tell others so they WON'T end up there! It's a task of compassion, not a reason to gloat in ourselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod
Yes, blind, unquestioning faith. I never got how faith is always refered to as a good thing. How bout this, hey, let me borrow you're credit card, I'll give it back. If you give it to me on faith alone, you are going to get screwed
That doesn't seem to be a valid example of the idea of 'faith.' 'Blind' is a term that doesn't go with true faith. Faith is in part the "evidence of things not seen," including what we see in nature (as evidence of God's creation), what we've experienced (as evidence of God's influence/blessing/presence), whether we believe Scripture rings true (as evidence of God's instruction), and based on that, what we believe.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Religion is dumb.

There you go, I just summed up your entire post in three words.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Yeah, this is dumb, people are responding with Biblical quotes, like they are the truth. Instead of offering up edvidence they go "Well the Bible says" as if that's unrefutable fact.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Grandiagod, we are arguing about what exactly it is that Christianity asserts - therefore it is perfectly valid to respond with bible quotes. The purpose of the bible quotes is to illustrate what's in the bible. Using bible quotes to assert things about the real world is obviously stupid but it makes a lot of sense to quote the bible when you're trying to point out what the bible is saying.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingspinach
Grandiagod, we are arguing about what exactly it is that Christianity asserts - therefore it is perfectly valid to respond with bible quotes. The purpose of the bible quotes is to illustrate what's in the bible. Using bible quotes to assert things about the real world is obviously stupid but it makes a lot of sense to quote the bible when you're trying to point out what the bible is saying.
Yes, but you forget, for the few techniques that I list that come from the Bible, I am reading between the lines. The straight out message never matters in mind control. Try reading the book "Virus of the Mind" a basic how to guide on cults and mind control.

So what the Bible straight out says is pretty unimportant to my theories.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Got it. Well in that case, peoples' remarks thus far do seem to disprove your point on a higher level - people don't even agree on what exactly Christianity is! So what are you defining Christianity as, then? The only common ground between all Christians is the name only, i.e. that they follow Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingspinach
Got it. Well in that case, peoples' remarks thus far do seem to disprove your point on a higher level - people don't even agree on what exactly Christianity is! So what are you defining Christianity as, then? The only common ground between all Christians is the name only, i.e. that they follow Jesus Christ.
Basically, Protestants, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Luterans etc.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:35 PM   #16
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So do you mean the intent of the individual people? Or of the leaders, as the case may exist? You're not really saying who exactly you're accusing of conspiracy.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Christianity and Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingspinach
So do you mean the intent of the individual people? Or of the leaders, as the case may exist? You're not really saying who exactly you're accusing of conspiracy.
The leaders control the people, but they play a really small part. Basically, it's the structure of the whole religion that constitutes control, not conspiracy.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod
Yeah, this is dumb, people are responding with Biblical quotes, like they are the truth. Instead of offering up edvidence they go "Well the Bible says" as if that's unrefutable fact.
Dude, when you are attacking the basic core of a religion, advocates of that religion have the right to use Biblical quotes to provide evidence and back-up for their arguments.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trillobyite
Dude, when you are attacking the basic core of a religion, advocates of that religion have the right to use Biblical quotes to provide evidence and back-up for their arguments.
What arguements are they backing up? All I see is "BIBLE QUOTE" then they reiterate the quote. Plus responding with Bible quotes misses the whole point.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod
What arguements are they backing up? All I see is "BIBLE QUOTE" then they reiterate the quote. Plus responding with Bible quotes misses the whole point.
The only biblical quote I see on this thread is one used to counter the concept that Christianity is a cult devoted to forcing humanity into worshiping the same entity. Whether you can counter the quote or not is none of my business, I am not even Christian, but I'm just saying the use of the quote to defend Christianity as not focusing on controlling others is in no way a bad argument.
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