Communist Views

[AasumDude]

I heard this in an essay from another forum, and I thought it was a very interesting view. If anyone here has any knowledge of Communist Idealists, then it can be noted it always turns into some form of Fascism (in some aspects, atleast), and it turns out that people are hardly ever (in essence) equal, which is the main goal of Communism. So I present this thing I found:

Communism is actually Fascism in abstract thought -- although the emphasis is placed on a social class rather than a master race or nationality.

I want to hear your comments on this quote. Do you agree/disagree?

[Tasselfoot]

My comments on Communism have always been that it is a great concept on paper, but it doesn't work in practice. For exactly the reasons you listed... human greed won't allow the people in power to remain at the same social status as the peasants.

Best examples of a utopian society in today's world are the Kibbutzim.

[AasumDude]

Hmm. Communist societies can work, but only if the leader is as equal as the lowliest peasant. That concept can be proven by early Spartan societies which gave each person the same amount of food branches and the exact same amount of land. If there was a bad season for some Spartans, others would have to share. Of course something this basic could never possibly work in modern times... it's just too complicated now. The dictator of the proletariat must respect his position of power by maintaining elections. I'd probably a communist if I knew it'd work, but right now I guess I'm a Democratic Social Economic Reformer.

[mattyohh]

commie pinko. Communism will never work in practise.

[Tasselfoot]

Matty... way to repeat EVERYTHING Aasum and I said and contribute nothing.

[Leaff]

Mankind is too greedy to allow such a system to work. Therefore, Communism could never hold out. Believing that you are the superior race just gets people pissed at you. So Fascism, in a way, would fall the same way as Communism because mankind is too greedy and wants to become the best just like in Communism. Except Fascism is taking control over other races to prove that you're superior. Communism equally distributes people's power and everyone gets the same. So obvoiusly people want to become the best and want to be the dominant race. So there will always be wars over them and they can never work. So both fail.

[Grandiagod]

Capitalism is the system which most embraces humanity's insatiable greed.

[Z3ratul]

In theory, Communism is wonderful, but as of yet, no country has went about it properly. If you read into Marx, he had an idea of where a country should be (as far as industrialization, politics, etc.) in their development when they should reach a 'Communist' stage. Russia went about it too soon...

For the record, Communist isn't about making everybody equal. It's more about equality of results (not exactly, but a better description). Where as in America, it's equality of opportunity. Yeah, perhaps I'm slightly biased being an American, but I think Capitalism is the way to go.

[Hr2]

Communism doesn't work because people are flawed. I remember talking about communism with some people, and I said "Wouldn't it be great if everyone worked together, and we all got to eat the same things and everyone had free healthcare, no one was ever left out?" and they said "No, what the hell is the point of having anything if other people have it, the only reason to have things is to have more than others." (Although, in slightly less formal language.) This is the flaw in humanity that does not allow communism to work.

However, if you were somehow able to get a communist society running very well. You could undergo a period of constant rennaissance. With everyone being well fed, the government could simply put excess funds to work funding art, music, medical and scientific research. As opposed to Russia, who obviously put a lot of excess funds into the military. In a communist society like this, everyone would be able to go to enjoy the top musicians of the day, buildings would be decorated by well trained artists. People who had talent for art would not be forced to do a job that doesn't utilize their skills, because they can't make money in art. In fact, even a fairly small sized communist colony that achieved this would be a huge step for the world I believe. It could change things worldwide (Not politically, but historically and culturally), yeah it would be pretty interesting. Pity it will never happen, greed is a method of self preservation and cannot be removed, so I think we will have to live in a capitalist society until we find a "fairer" system that can still satisfy our need for green.

[chickendude]

Another huge problem that you are missing is that in communism: People don't have the will to work.

Nobody will work hard because they know they're going to be fed when they get home no matter what. Communism trys to equalify people in ways that they just simply aren't equal.
Products from a communist nation will be flawed by default and inferior to those of capitalist nations because the people won't try hard enough. Even if you think you are trying hard enough, there's no motivation like a competetor trying to throw you out of business. There's simply no way people will work AS hard as they would in a capitalist society.

nothing would work out
on top of all that, human greed leads to hierarchy in society
communism doesn't work at all

[Benny1]

recently we went over government systems in social science.

We talked a lot about this.

Communism definetly will never work out, because it assumes everyone to work to their maximum with no complaints. That isn't happening, people are far too greedy.

Also, if communism is this perfect way of government, then it should have technically evolved by itself, rather than being written down and copied from.

[Charlotte21]

It all depends on the systems of power balance in place for the people operating the government in order to determine whether or not the government will be effective.

Effective governments are governments where power is mutually shared.

Take for example the contemporary failures of the American government. We could easily attribute these to the loss of effectiveness of the power balancing systems.

If power is mutually shared, it is also equally viable for property to be mutually shared. Communist economics would certainly be successful as long as the operating powers were not solely controlled by the government, and had no checks and balances.

While I don't believe in a Communist economic system, I do believe that the stock anwser "It's good in theory but not in practice" is bull****. I've heard that reply over a hundred times, and I really don't think it is the case. A derivative of communism would work (I'm not talking Socialism), just like a derivative of democracy works (IE most democratic states).

Would it work the best? Who knows. Would it be effective at accomplishing its intended goals? Yes.

[flamingspinach]

Benny1, natural selection does of course act upon governments, but remember that the basic principle of natural selection is not that the best survive, but rather those that reproduce the most successfully survive. It's arguable that a happy society would actually reproduce less than an unhappy society - look at birth rates in the first world and the third world.

[super-smashman]

I think the best society would be a socialist-democratic government under the totalitarian control of an alturist.



...or David Palmer.

[Charlotte21]

Originally Posted by super-smashman

I think the best society would be a socialist-democratic government under the totalitarian control of an alturist.



...or David Palmer.

An altruist would probably have trouble making decisions, and many decisions may never get made if he was a complete altruist.

[chickendude]

It's not people being greedy that prevent them from working to their full potential.
It's the lack of motivation.
There is no motivation like competition, which is what capitalism induces.
People will only push themselves to their limits with a great enough motivation; and "to help everyone" just doesn't cut it. All the smart, hard working people would only work as hard as the lazy ones, making the lazy ones lazier, snowballing into one giant inefficient pile-of-crap economy.

How could you motivate people to work in a communist society without a stalin-esque rule?

[AasumDude]

Originally Posted by Leaff

Mankind is too greedy to allow such a system to work. Therefore, Communism could never hold out. Believing that you are the superior race just gets people pissed at you. So Fascism, in a way, would fall the same way as Communism because mankind is too greedy and wants to become the best just like in Communism. Except Fascism is taking control over other races to prove that you're superior. Communism equally distributes people's power and everyone gets the same. So obvoiusly people want to become the best and want to be the dominant race. So there will always be wars over them and they can never work. So both fail.

I see what you're trying to say (I think). Are you saying that Fascists are more external in showing their power and force, whereas Communism has an internal way of overpowering citizens?

Benny1: If 100 families refuse to work, and the government shoots one family and drags them into the street, then you have 99 families that are willing to work out of fear. Human will can be excellerated with the possibility of death. Doesn't killing a few members of the working class to fuel the rest of the proletariat into working understandable in this case?

Just to toss it up, I'd also like to mention that Stalin gave his officers as many as 4 cars per family while villagers were so hungry they had to kidnap children just to eat them. Oppinions?

[chickendude]

so basically,
you have to rule like Stalin to make communism work

oh and cars in the Soviet Union did NOT work
they fell apart quickly. The USSR made shoddy products.

[Benny1]

But is that really true communism?

True communism everybody is supposed to do their very best with no motivation at all, and tehre won't be a government to shoot people.

[chickendude]

which is its main flaw

people don't do their best without motivation

If you were told that you will succeed in life whether you do well in school or not, you wouldn't stay up late finishing a project due the next day. You just wouldn't work hard in general.