Linux From Scratch

[Austaph]

For all die-hard geeks:
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org

I've got all my studying done for the week ahead, so I might as well get back into this Linux thing. For those of you who don't know, Linux is a computer operating system (OS) like Windows, only with a lot more functionality and ground-up customization potential.

Popular versions of Linux include http://www.ubuntu.com, http://www.gentoo.org, http://www.debian.org, http://www.slackware.com, http://www.redhat.com, among many, many others.

It's not for the faint of heart, however. Installing and using Linux requires a pretty hefty amount of computer literacy, and a lot of time, patience, and reading. If you're using a family computer, it's a must that you get permission before doing anything with Linux, as there's the very real possibility of mucking up your computer. Anyone who's ever used Linux has encountered severe errors with their computer, but learning how to fix the mistakes is half the fun of learning the OS.

It's been years since I was into Linux and software programming, and what I began with was ZipSlack; a version of Linux which can be installed in a folder in Windows. This is an absolutely magnificent introduction to Linux, providing a means to learn it and get used to it without the possibility rendering your computer (temporarily) useless.
ZipSlack: http://www.slackware.com/zipslack.

I've been pretty paranoid about malware and virus infection lately, and I want to have total control over the transition to Linux, so I'm going for a from-scratch installation. (Like I said: free time. Hahaha, please wish me luck with this one.) As always, let's share our thoughts, ideas, and questions.

[lightdarkness]

Mandrake owns all, get their distros from http://liniuxiso.org

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Lol I'm using Mandrake right now.

[Austaph]

Well, I've bootstrapped this beast. This project is going on its 14th straight hour. Almost done, just writing up the bootscripts and installing loggers and whatnot. If you guys like Mandrake, you should definitely check out Ubuntu. It's like a 3-step install, and it autodetects everything. They mail out free LiveCD/Install CD bundles, so it's worth a shot. I haven't used Mandrake since it was 7.0, so I don't know what it's turned into. Last experience I had with it was that it was basically a simplified RedHat. Building a system from scratch has to be the dumbest thing I've ever gotten myself into. I'm glad nothing has gone wrong yet. I hope this pays off. Posting in a console browser sucks. I probably won't be around until I get XOrg and Firefox up and running. Bah.

[Moogy]

Why would anybody bother using Linux for a desktop environment? It's really quite pointless and not worth the major hassle that comes with not only switching to Linux, but continuing to use it.

On the other hand, if you wanted to run a server or something of the sort, go for it.

[Austaph]

Originally Posted by Moogy

Why would anybody bother using Linux for a desktop environment?

I'm using it as a tool for development and software programming. But you are correct, If you use your computer for listening to music, instant messaging, and playing games, Linux probably isn't for you.

Originally Posted by Austaph

Linux [has] a lot more functionality and ground-up customization potential. I've been pretty paranoid about malware and virus infection lately, and I want to have total control over the transition to Linux, so I'm going for a from-scratch installation.

Installing it from scratch has given me much more knowledge on its inner-workings than I've ever had before, and ironically has been one of the very few timed I've installed Linux when I've actually gotten all of my main components to work without a single error. Go figure. It took two entire days, but it was worth it. Eventually I'll hack my way through each electronic peripheral I own, and then I simply continue to reap the benefits of working in an open-source enviroment.

[soccr743]

You can develop software and program just as easily on Windows, if not even easier. Why would you want to give up the ease of use of Windows for other things you want to do on the computer?

That, personally, is probably why I will never use linux.

-----Soccr743-----

[gardyloo]

ubuntu is not that popular at all, and fedora core seems to be gaining popularity. I don't know where they are trying to go with this whole "madriva" instead of mandrake thing.
Slackware ownz all, bitches.

[Austaph]

Via. http://www.distrowatch.com:

Rank - Distribution - Hits Per Day
1 - Ubuntu - 2311
2 - SUSE - 1105
3 - Mandriva - 1075
4 - Fedora - 1044

What was that you saying, gardyloo? Heh. Slackware is pretty good, I'll have to agree with you there. My favorites descend from Gentoo, to Slackware, to Ubuntu. Though, I have to admit, I've been having a lot of fun with this from-scratch environment.

Originally Posted by soccr743

You can develop software and program just as easily on Windows, if not even easier. Why would you want to give up the ease of use of Windows for other things you want to do on the computer?

Ok, I knew this would happen. Listen, Windows and Linux both have their benefits and handicaps. Let's not turn this thread into a Windows vs. Linux flamewar. In that case, you're missing the point. Nobody is trying to convince anyone that Linux is better than Windows, so what are you even talking about? What are you even trying to doubt? If you have nothing to do but whine about how difficult it is for you to work with Linux, then why are you even posting? Start a Linux vs. Windows thread if you want to, but in the meantime - don't distort the topic of this one.

[soccr743]

Actually, I dont think my post was starting a flamewar at all. I have nothing against linux at all. I am just asking why you would decide to go with linux when you can do the same thing on Windows. Your opinion, had you given one, and your reasons would have let me think more about installing a partition for linux and giving it a go.

So I have no idea what you are even talking about...

-----Soccr743-----

[deposition]

A few reasons off the top of my head

1 There are things that Windows will artificially stop you from doing.
ex. having more that a certain amount of network connections open at a time, making you pay quite a few hundred more for the Server OS for that artificial cap to be taken off.

2 Linux is totally open source; a great tool for learing, or getting better with, programming, not to mention totally custumizeable as you can edit the code to make it do anything you want.

3 Is hacked much less often.

4. I'm sure they have more reasons here: www.microsuck.com
Scroll down a bit to "Whats so bad about Microsoft?"

[MonkeyFoo]

I agree with Deposition, it SHOULD be a flamewar.

1. Macs are better anyway

2. Yeah macs are pretty much better than linux and windows

3. OSX = secks

4. It is unhacked.

[Austaph]

Linux is great for a lot of things. For me, the learning experience is enough - there's always a new challenge to face, more to learn. If I had to hold Linux and Windows against eachother - Windows would be a car with its hood welded shut. There's just something about devoting time to things that Windows would otherwise hand over. It makes you feel a little more connected, I suppose, to your computing experience. Those are my opinions.

Yes, setting it up, compiling, configuring, and learning everything is a huge pain in the ass - I spent all day on simply the ins-and-outs of system logging and a bit about running mail services. But, each small step you take that makes your system even a little bit more secure is a very good feeling. The deal-sealer is the open-source environment. I'm just getting into programming (from the few years I was into it when I was younger) and the Linux environment is extremely conducive to the aim of software engineering. Linix uses its own open-souce (source code is freely available) software compiler, GCC. It's free. Any of the thousands of applications available for Linux (covered under the GNU Public License) are free. Free as in you can view, modify, and compile the source code to whatever you want - for free. In addition to that, doing something like compiling your entire system from scratch ensures that your system is built tailored to your specific computer, and your specific needs. You get everything you want, nothing you don't, and - with some dedication - your system will operate flawlessly.

Didn't mean to be an ass. I've been under unbelievable amounts of stress lately with school. Linux is quickly becoming my escape.

[senate7377]

engh, mandrake is good for the average home user, Im partial to debian myself. I like anything UNIX based..yet I cant stand MAC (I can build a better PC than MAC can, but windows is bloated and crappy OS...cant wait to see longhorn flop in its personally estimated release in 2057)

I'll agree if you dont know anything about computers...LINUX isnt really where you wanna start. I started with it...like 7 or so years ago, when you had to DL it off of the old school BBS they had going...I cant rememebr is it was mandrake or redhat if you can remember that.Its god for damn near anything if you know what you are doing. If you dont, its a great way to learn what NOT to do. Id prefer to stick with UNIX though, know UNIX - you've got hte world by its balls (that and ORACLE now THATS a bitch to learn). Don't use it much now though as I dont have much need for it, not unless something goes wrong on the SGI, but then thats also a UNIX system.

I have to disagree about the love of MACS.... for the price...I expect more. However I feel that they are hacked less not becuase they are used less (like some believe) but because the OS is cleaner. The nice thing with UNIX and LINUX is that becuase of the open source (at least for now), your support team is it's users. The downside to that is - your support team is its users. Id much prefer to have a global network of people to collaborate with on app building and so on, than the 10,000 that MS has getting paid ass loads of money to make bloats, over assuming, limiting, and unoriginal programs. Its nice to be able ot understand someone in Germany if you dont know german by writing simple code....programming language is a universal language (and I winderif one day well all talk to each other with things like "grep phrase 686900" or something similar)

Keep up the work on Linux man...Its not the "easiest" thing to do...I wish I stayed current in it. I stopped being hard core into the software side of things 5 years ago when I left the Army. Now Im strictly hardware...and I still hate macs (its a pain to tweak the system, customizing things isnt the easiest thing to do, at least windows llows you hose your system). Maybe you'll be the guy that makes a standardized OS that could care less if its a mix "PC" or "MAC" pieces inside. I hate propriety stuff. I understand that ppl wanna get paid, but they dont need to be greedy.

and, I have to disagree that I think iNTEL chips are better than AMD for now, itll go back and forth for a while, but its not a speed war anymore, (give it a year or two), just like Im nVidia over ATI (used to LOVE ATI though, but then they started making flakey drivers and the third party vendors made better ones...sad)... Times change and things progress (or digress).

[Austaph]

I have to agree about UNIX. I tossed FreeBSD on my old box once and just loved the feel. Very solid. The only thing that's keeping me attached to Gentoo right now is its package management. Emerge is the greatest thing that has ever happened to Linux - even better than agp. It's funny how Gentoo has a reputation for being notoriously difficult to install. When you consider that Gentoo is capable of building an entirely customized system, though - compared to doing it any other way, it's a downhill ride. After doing Stage3 for over a year, and getting nothin but trouble, the Stage1 install I just did yesterday has been flawless. Everything works the way it's supposed to.

[ILUVBARQS]

Mandrake: Linux for Idiots.

[ad0gg]

Back a couple years ago, when I started using Linux, I used Red Hat. Now they make you pay, so I'm currently using Fedora Core 4. I'm also going to try out Mandrake, maybe Debian, and possibly FreeBSD.

[senate7377]

Well linux is a backend anyway, so you have to have a Mandrake out there... like I sid you cant just start up in debain or something. With linux you know it or you dont. Its not like Dos (which isnt a back end contrary to belief... its a front end and windows is the macro driven gui)... but anyway... yall do what you do. I like linux, but it doesnt serve me any

[Yattasparagus28]

Originally Posted by MonkeyFoo

I agree with Deposition, it SHOULD be a flamewar.

1. Macs are better anyway

2. Yeah macs are pretty much better than linux and windows

3. OSX = secks

4. It is unhacked.

Are you kidding? Unhacked? Anyone with even LIMITED knowledge about hacking can hack a Mac. Not that many people openly do it for a couple of reasons. The first one is that it is almost like hitting a retarded kitten. It's already so pitiful, why harm it. The second thing is the pity. Anyone that uses a Mac as their main boot is already so technologically lacking that they would never know how to fix it.

Anyway, back to the topic. I wouldn't use Linux as my main boot, since I like using many mainstream programs, that aren't available for Linux. Still, I'm going to be building a computer for personal use soon (AKA in my room, woot) and I'm thinking of dual booting Linux. It's a much more smoothly-running OS, especially if you DON'T build it yourself. Also, it has many programming compilers available right from the get-go. Since I'll be programming a bit, I'll need some good ones.

The thing is, I wouldn't build my own OS. If something goes wrong, you know that YOU'RE the problem. Also, the accessibility to many other programs is basically null, and I need a stable OS for many of my activities, like gaming and using BT.