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Old 11-9-2004, 08:17 PM   #1
Laharl
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Default Times have changed.

I'm fairly certain I don't belong in today's world.

I believe women are to be respected. Chivarly nowadays will simply get you scoffed at.

I believe life, and the creation of it, is a dear and sacred thing. In today's world, people thing the choice is to not have the baby after it's conception, and not whether or not to put out.

I believe in being honest in all I do. People think it's best to just live "for (ourselves)" and that to get ahead meants to hold everyone else back.

Today, there is no such thing as wrong.
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Old 11-9-2004, 08:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Times have changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl
Today, there is no such thing as wrong.
Wrong.
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Old 11-9-2004, 08:27 PM   #3
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Default RE: Times have changed.

I agree with Laharl. Very very very much.

But...times change, people change.
In all honesty, I believe there are two major things responsible for the decline of morals.
Technology and lack of relegion.
I'm not saying technology is bad. It is very much the opposite, but everything has a repercussion. As technology advances, we don't have to depend on ourselves for our basic needs. Of course, as the Renaissance showed us, as technology improved, so did the want for education and art and literature and all that good stuff. But as technology advances even further, the longing for those things have become a thing of the past. Who wants art when there is T.V. Every kid hates school. No one reads when there are movies of books. It's just stuff that happens.

Onto the lack of religion, I don't want to stir up another religion arguement, I just want to point out that in the past, when the bible, quran, what have you, was strickly inforced, so were morals, and that's what today's society is lacking a whole whole whole whole whole whole bunch. It became more and more acceptable to show more and more skin. Or to treat women this way or that.

Shit happens and times change.
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Old 11-9-2004, 08:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: RE: Times have changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypherToorima
I agree with Laharl. Very very very much.

But...times change, people change.
In all honesty, I believe there are two major things responsible for the decline of morals.
Technology and lack of relegion.

Shit happens and times change.
I'm not going to get into the technology or religion thing. I remember reading somewhere about an journal or scripture of some kind saying that children no longer obey their parents. But ironically this was written by an ancient Sumerian something like 2000 B.C. - so people have been saying this same thing for hundreds of years now, if not more.
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Old 11-9-2004, 09:28 PM   #5
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Default RE: Re: RE: Times have changed.

oh the times they are a-changin'
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Old 11-9-2004, 09:42 PM   #6
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Default RE: Re: RE: Times have changed.

Thank you, Casey, for putting into words something I very much agree with.
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Old 11-9-2004, 10:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Times have changed.

Ok I actually read the post this time and I stumbled across this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl
I believe women are to be respected. Chivarly nowadays will simply get you scoffed at.
Fuck chivalry. I treat women as my equal, not as beings better than me. Respect, yes, I fully endorse and practice. Mindless pampering, no, unless you do it for men just as much.

I agree with the honesty thing and I'm sick of arguing abortion so I'll stop here.
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I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.
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Old 11-9-2004, 10:13 PM   #8
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Default RE: Re: Times have changed.

Hell, nowadays, Chivalry is just treating a woman with respect.
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Old 11-9-2004, 10:24 PM   #9
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Default RE: Re: Times have changed.

There's really no such thing as an inferior human being and I think trying to be "nicer" to someone because of something they are not is a form of disrespect.

If you're going to treat them as equals, then do so. Unfortunately, that's called a hate crime in this day and age :/

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Old 11-10-2004, 12:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Times have changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgamayan
Ok I actually read the post this time and I stumbled across this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl
I believe women are to be respected. Chivarly nowadays will simply get you scoffed at.
F#$% chivalry. I treat women as my equal, not as beings better than me. Respect, yes, I fully endorse and practice. Mindless pampering, no, unless you do it for men just as much.

I agree with the honesty thing and I'm sick of arguing abortion so I'll stop here.
As taken from dictionary.com

chivalry

n 1: courtesy towards women [syn: gallantry, politesse]

If you're nice to a girl nowadays, they think you're just trying to get goodwill points so eventually you can bed her. Guys think you're gay if you treat women with respect.

I'm making gross exaggerations, but after a while, it seriously feels that way to me.
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:01 AM   #11
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Default RE: Re: Times have changed.

Kilga thank you, I basically believe everything you ever post here is just pure truth, its awesome... I'm so sick of the double standard that women want, they can't have it both ways... let them choose
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:34 AM   #12
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This is in response to the first post of the topic:

Stop deluding yourself into thinking that you are above everyone else. You aren't. Nothing about the opinions you hold is any more right or wrong than the opinions held by those who disagree with you. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are alone either, as there are many many people who would agree with you on every subject you mentioned.

Everyone in this world holds different values. These values guide us to the viewpoints we hold on matters such as the ones you mentioned. Since our values are different, the viewpoints we hold will likewise be different. But just as one value cannot be objectively said to be better than another, one viewpoint cannot objectively be said to be better than another. Reconciling these differences between values and viewpoints amongst those we share our lives with is a major part of life, and is something that I believe ultimately propels us forward.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefit
Stop deluding yourself into thinking that you are above everyone else.
Stop deluding yourself into thinking that everyone's set of morality is acceptable and that there is no benefit to traditional morality.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:58 AM   #14
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I don't agree that the "lack of religion" has created a downfall in morality, since some religions committed some horrific crimes of humanity. The concept of religion is fundamentally flawed (in most aspects).

Although I agree with basically most of the points. Women don't deserve the treatment they currently get, they deserve equal - but not more. That's why I don't agree with some hardcore feminists, since they're virtually asking for the tables to be flipped, but when something bad happens, they can fall back on men for support. Screw that. Equality.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefit
Stop deluding yourself into thinking that you are above everyone else.
Stop deluding yourself into thinking that everyone's set of morality is acceptable and that there is no benefit to traditional morality.
Everyone's set of morality is acceptable one some level because that person accepts it or else it wouldn't be their set of morals.

However, not everyone's set of moralities are necessarily acceptable to one given person.

Don't forget that you aren't the center of the universe, and that your beliefs and morals aren't held by everyone else.
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I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:10 PM   #16
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1+2 = 5649

I'm correct, because I believe this to be true. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or what is actually correct, just as long as it's good enough for me it's socially acceptable. You shouldn't discredit me for believing this to be true - it's my own belief and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. You say 1+2=3, so both of us are equally correct because we disagree and both of our beliefs are acceptable. Just because your belief is accepted by almost everyone else doesn't mean you're correct. I'm correct too.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:03 PM   #17
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Discrete Structures class, here we come.

I provided actual proof of my statement instead of just going "this is what I believe" because belief does not pertain to facts. You, on the other hand, provide no evidence of your "1 + 2 = 5649" statement. When discussing facts and the validity of those facts, one provides evidence to either prove a theory or disprove it.

Take the "Everyone's set of morality is acceptable" statement again. The standard method to prove a universal statement true is to take an unknown arbitrary element in the set created by the statement (in this case, "everyone"; in other cases, it could be "all odd numbers", "all days that begin with T", "all green fruits", and the like) So I take an arbitrary person X. This person has their own set of morals, even if it is an empty set (note that empty sets are still sets), and accepts them (as they would change them otherwise). Therefore, everyone's set of morality is acceptable on some unique level.

The standard method to prove a universal statement false is to find one counterexample. So please do so, as I fail to see one and thus wish to know where your logic is coming from.

On a side note: Have you realized you've become Mwerp with the ability to lock topics? I dare say that makes you worse than him, since if you were to lose an argument you could say "No, I'm right" and then lock said topic, and if the person creates another topic that proves you wrong again you can edit it to something degrading and lock it again on the grounds that they are not to argue with a moderator's decision (power trip!).

You may be really eager to lock this topic too (although obviously I can't say for sure), but you may not have to worry because, frankly, I'm sick of arguing with you and your Mwerpish "I'm always right" attitude. Depending on what your response to this is, I may just ditch the subject entirely and go do something worthwhile, because I am not accomplishing either of the two goals The Q defined as the point of debating in this forum.
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I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:23 PM   #18
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@Kefit: I don't believe myself to me better than others. Maybe some =X, but not everyone.

I know I'm human. I know there are people who don't believe what I believe, and some that do. I'm not an arrogant asshole, like mwerp was, when he said he was smarter than everyone and all that othern jive. I know I'm not. Some people think better than I do. I can't always put what I am thinking into words. Some feelings you just can't explain.
And tell me, when is rape/whatever good? The only instance I can think of is of a masochist on the recieving end, because they enjoy it (and I'm not I would consider it rape anymore, but that's besides the point). More power to them. But in most instances, rape is bad. If a person doesn't want to have sex with you, what gives you the right to force yourself on them? Seriously. Don't give me this bullshit about "well, it's right in their mind" just to make yourself look open-minded. It's not fair for the a person just to get victimized because a rapist or whatever thinks what they are doing is right. That's stupid to think it is. Seriously. I don't care if you view me as closed minded about it. I don't think it's fair for someone to ever be victimized in a crime as serious as that. I mean, you say that I hold my morals at a higher regard, which it may have come off like that, but that's not what I meant. Of course, someone whos steals stuff may think it's not really bad. I do, but I'm not gonna freak out or something. If they think it's right, good for them. But with crimes that hurt an underserving family(And there isn't much you can do to deserve things like being killed, raped, whatever) is wrong. I will always, always believe that. I don't give a shit if that murderer or whatever thinks it's right. It just isn't. Since when could someone decide someone else's fate. It's stupid to think that you can. Call me arrogant or whatever else you want and you won't change my mind. I guess that's closed minded, but atleast I'm on the laws side

And about women. I agree, women don't need to be held at a higher regard. I very much agree with that. Very, very much. but there are crimes commited against women just because they are, and there are crimes comitted against just because they are. It happens, but it shouldn't. Of course, not all crimes comitted against a black or mexican or white person is a hate crime, but someare (I think I saw hate crime in there somewhere, so I decided to address it).


If I came off arrogant or whatever you thought I came off as, kefit, in my first post, I didn't mean to.

and I probably contradicted myself, but oh well. If you bring it up, I can explain it.

Edit: Sorta cleaned it up a bit
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefit
Nothing about the opinions you hold is any more right or wrong than the opinions held by those who disagree with you.
THAT IS MY WHOLE ENTIRE POINT!

Go find me saying somewhere my way is better than any other way. Go do it. I dare you. If you find it, I'd sure like to know about it.

I was saying I don't belong in today's world anymore. I simply do not agree with the direction that civilization is headed. Because of my views, I'm often criminalized. In fact, just the other day, someone told me I was predjudice against all homosexual and bisexual people because I was saying I find the trend that the majority of girls 15 and 16 claim to be bisexual nowadays and it disturbs me. I don't recall saying I hate bisexual people. I recall saying I disagree with bisexuality, but I have no beef with anyone that does so.

I'm incredibly tired of how conservative people like myself are utterly hated and loathed by many liberal people for our views. I'm a rather laid back guy. I'm MY definition of open-minded: I've got my mind made up, but you can go ahead and do whatever you want and I won't judge you for it. Open-minded does not mean "having to have tried something before you can dog on it" as I've had so many... pleasant people put it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzmosis
I don't agree that the "lack of religion" has created a downfall in morality, since some religions committed some horrific crimes of humanity. The concept of religion is fundamentally flawed (in most aspects).
How so? Fundamentally, it's rather sound. It's in practice where it often fails. Usually, it's this one concept that doesn't end up working correctly: "love thy neighbor as ye love thyself". Jesus, afterall, said "Let he who is perfect cast the first stone".

People tend to get caught up in trying to feel superior to everything else. It's just a facet of human nature, we all want to feel powerful. Everytime in history religions have "failed" comes from them forgetting basic precepts of their own design.
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:35 PM   #20
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Whole entire = redundant.

Chardish, there's a difference between making a mathematical assumption and a logical assumption. I can't say 2+2 = 5 (Even though I have a shirt that agrees with me) and get away with it. It's common knowledge that 2+2 is AND ALWAYS IS 4.

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