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Old 10-20-2004, 02:53 PM   #1
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Default Perfection, Perfect Being?

Okay this is a very advanced form of thinking and alot of people may not understand this, but here goes.

Humans are imperfect, so we can only imagine what a perfect human is: "a complete human in every way". Or, one incapable of being doing wrong.

However, is a perfect being possible? If one is incapable of doing wrong, "incapable" is a way of saying something lacking. So a perfect being would have nothing lacking, so therefore could only have the awareness of the possibility to do wrong, but always did right. However, if they had the oppertunity to do bad, that in itself is a defect, because one that is perfect would not know how to do wrong.

So how can perfection or a perfect being exist if you can't compare it to anything? After all, perfect is just a comparison to what isn't. So you'd have to know what is a flaw of perfection to be perfect, and not do it. But if you don't know, then how can you be perfect?
Therein lies the paradox.

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Old 10-20-2004, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

perfect is just a word humans made up. There is no such thing as a perfect being-it's all a matter of perception. If your perfect being could press 350, I could just argue that muscle takes more energy to fuel than fat, so a fat person would have a better chance of surviving if, say, nuclear was erupts and only a handful of people survived.
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:28 PM   #3
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

Perfection can only exist when there are restrictions and a specific goal is sought. When speaking in terms of general world things like society, government, life, humans, then you can never have perfection because there are no restrictions nor a specific goal. And besides, to decide perfection you must be out of the equation entirely- therefore only God can decide perfection for the larger things.
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:46 PM   #4
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

However, the "perfect being" refers mostly to the existence of God. (See Descrates' works) What I'm arguing here that is if one is perfect and has no flaws, they have to have the option to have flaws to NOT have them. But in such, a perfect being would not even have the option to have flaws - so how could one ever be perfect if they can't be compared to inperfection?
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Old 10-20-2004, 05:35 PM   #5
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

Humans cannot be or do anything perfect because we, ourselves, are, as jazzmosis stated, imperfect beings. If some human was able to do something perfectly, they would not be human. I think the concept of perfection is just a goal to keep pushing us forward to accomplish things; to keep us trying to obtain perfection, even though it is not possible.
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Old 10-20-2004, 06:55 PM   #6
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

i would agree more with esupin here, perfect is a word that is simply interpreted. Some can argue that Nima is perfect at SM because he can basically beat everyone, and others would say that he would have to AAAA every single type of stepfile creatable. and if god is perfect, can god create an obstacle so difficult that even he cannot achieve. and if so then he is not perfect, as he could not achieve something. i think this is the type of paradox with perfection.
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:29 PM   #7
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

I'm Christian and I believe in an imperfect God. My proof? Mary got pregnant...without asking for it...and she didn't even get to have fun with it. That right there is imperfection. God is capable of wrongdoing, he is capable of destruction, famine, evil, anything. Need more proof that he's imperfect? He sent down a chunk of himself to embody perfection in human form, Christ. Only problem is now that Christ is dead, he lost some of himself. (see Konotic Theology). In short, he's imperfect, but he still is as damn close to it as it is poosible. He's a got a gib ego too...it's sorta funny.

Unusual rambling complete...

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Old 10-22-2004, 08:30 AM   #8
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

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But in such, a perfect being would not even have the option to have flaws - so how could one ever be perfect if they can't be compared to inperfection?
But didn't we decide that God is the standard? Who knows what he could or couldn't choose to do? We merely know that he is unchanging and has revealed his attributes to us...attributes we can hardly even aspire to.

How can you measure the standard by itself?
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:50 PM   #9
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

We can't comprehend perfection. That easy.
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Old 10-22-2004, 04:44 PM   #10
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

you can be perfect at somethings.. but not everything.
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Old 10-22-2004, 09:54 PM   #11
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

Please, everyone who just wrote one line, expand.
I want to know more.

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Old 10-23-2004, 12:26 AM   #12
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

To be perfect is obviously an unattainable human goal - this much is obvious. What I'm trying to say is that how can a perfect being exist if there's never anything to compare it to? Essentially all we can say about the existence of such a being would be to say that this perfect being is nothing that perfection isn't.
At least that gives a comparison.

However, if we can only imagine that a perfect being exists, how do we know our minds are just not deceiving us? Our minds are imperfect, so how could we ever possibly imagine a perfect being if we have no idea WHAT perfection is?
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:46 AM   #13
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

i may be repeating somebody since im tired and didnt go through everybody's posts.

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder therefore perfection is a imaginary term. What may be perfect to us and completely unflawed may be horribly wrong in another persons eyes. I kinda wonder what the islamic extremists thought of mother theresa as a lot of people considered her near perfect. Seeing as they kidnapped the director of CARE in iraq and are threatening to behead her, obviously not that highly.
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Old 10-23-2004, 10:33 AM   #14
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Is a perfect being possible?

It will be impossible for someone to know what a perfect being is that will be accepted be all. Each person has an own separate views on perfection and therefore perfection only would apply to the ones who agree with a certain view. If they didn’t then they would have their own separate view.

Religion is one of the many areas that would cause a divide among people on reaching a consensus about a perfect being. This is because every religion has extremists that are under the impression that their religion must be the one, the ultimate. When you put aside the customs, traditions and rituals, one will see that every religion is based on a similar principle. Treat others the way you want to be treated. In other words show kindness to all. Therefore in conclusion to this statement a perfect being would generally be one who is kind to all. Unfortunately, as stated earlier, there are extremists who lose sight of this primary base in favour of empowering sameness in religion by the use of holy wars.

So we know a perfect human would be one that shows kindness to all, but would there be any other attributes that exist as well? Would academic, athletic or other abilities play a role on perfection? If so, people may consider cloning as a means of attaining perfection. Someday, it may be possible to tweak the genes of an unborn being in favour of brains, athleticism and other attributes taken from people who throughout the course of history have been gifted with these attributes. By doing this we would be taking away the speciality that comes with learning and developing these gifts.

Closing, this should be a generally accepted term of perfection: One who shows kindness to all and has intelligence athleticism and other attributes developed to a maximum.
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Old 10-23-2004, 10:40 AM   #15
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

Porgy, I think you made a good connection. Are beauty and perfection the same thing? Even physical beauty is based off of what a body should look like when it's healthy. Inner beauty could be perfection of the mind or of emotions.

I also want to disagree with you. Muslim extremist chose that woman because it would have an effect on the U.S. and it's allies. This only proves that they really want money. Strange as it is, I believe that it's illegal to kill at all in the Islamic faith. Unless you're protecting your family, nation, etc. Another thing I didn't appreciate, you made a religious connection to another race based on geographical ideas(I think.) In reality, Islam is as close to Christianity as I am to the chair I'm sitting in. I have read the Qu'ran, the English translation (there was arabic on each line, so it's the real thing) and I loved it. Great ideas. The only real difference is the lack of belief in three dieties and that Islam teaches how to worship. Christianity leaves it up to the worshipper. They even worship the same God as Christians and Jews. I would guess that through all of these similarities the ideas of beauty and perfection would be similar as well.

I got way off topic, sorry. It always bothers me when people assume the worst, even of terrorists. Got to admit, I love them just as much as my brother. Which is quite a bit.

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Old 10-23-2004, 11:53 AM   #16
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

You're not really off topic, Q.. really what I'm trying to debate is can humans even imagine a perfect being (Ie: God) if there are so many imperfections with ourselves?
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:05 PM   #17
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

See my previous post, the one that says God isn't perfect.

More stuff: Roman and Greek gods, as well as many other polytheistic gods were imperfect. Why should mine be any different? Has he not screwed up before? There is a series of books that relate to this...written by Orson Scott Card. The Homecoming series. Good stuff. The "god" turns out to be a computer and thereby can't feel emotion, but can predict it. It acts on predictions and what not, but never knows the true effects. Quite interesting, if you ask me.

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Old 10-23-2004, 12:09 PM   #18
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Default RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

On a simple note, it is impossible to define a perfect height, perfect hair color, perfect eyes, etc., so a perfect human is impossible.
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

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On a simple note, it is impossible to define a perfect height, perfect hair color, perfect eyes, etc., so a perfect human is impossible.
Thats parially true, but we have traits such as blond(e) hair and blue eyes, which are not as common in our society as brown hair or brown eyes, therefore, genetically, these traits are rarer, therefore it is quite possible that it is nature's way of telling us that these traits are more perfect then others, for perfection is such a rarity.
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:37 PM   #20
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Default RE: Re: RE: Perfection, Perfect Being?

yes Poltech... and look where that got Hitler.
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