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Old 08-28-2004, 09:04 PM   #1
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Default Relationships.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/arch0wl/49121.html

versus

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html


[the gist of] IW's ladder is saying, that relationships revolve around sex, money, and power. I disagree that this is not the case every time, and the latter only pertains to a certain extent of people.

Discuss.
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Old 08-28-2004, 09:53 PM   #2
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Every relationship is different. There are relationships that revolve around sex, money, and power, there are some that don't.
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Old 08-28-2004, 10:16 PM   #3
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Exactly what Kilga said. Some can be so two people can fuck each other every two hours, and others can be for a lifetime of happiness between two people.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:12 PM   #4
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Ladder theory only holds true in polygamous environments.
Thus, commit to monogamy, and you won't be privy to crap like that.

Funny how he calls people who abstain from sex until marriage "anachronous" (though outdated should be the term he was looking for) even though they generally lead happier lives than it sounds like he leaves. After all, he's bitter.

Regarding the forum post in Arch's LJ: Love won't work with just everyone. Even if you go through hell together. There HAS to be a personality covalence (in chemistry terms.)
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:03 PM   #5
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my take.... the people in the article Arch quoted are ugly and are not getting any ass. they are jealous and are trying to skew things so that they can feel better.

life does revolve around "sex, drugs, and rock and roll"... anyone who says they don't want to be rich is full of sh-t. anyone who says they wouldn't like to bang Jenna Jamison or the Olsen Twins or whoever their favorite fantasy is is just plain lying. IMO, those who say they want to wait until marriage for sex have horribly dated ideals and are out of touch with todays society. personally, i love sex. sex is amazing and gets better the more you partake in it (especially with the same person).

i AM in love. so much so that despite living in NYC and my gf living in LA we've managed to see each other at least once a month for over a year, including spending 3 months together this summer. we lived together in the same bed, under the same roof. we went to work every day. it was a great experience for a time when i am ready for marriage, because i know that i can live with her. we don't fight... any problems we have are discusses and put to rest by rough and passionate sex. when we are together, we have sex at least twice a day, sometimes more... i feel that it has brought us 100x closer. we know every inch of each other, physically and emotionally. because of our intimate lifestyle together we are able to be happy and love each other. she is someone that i most certainly could marry when i am ready.

so... in summary.... i don't completely agree with the ladder, but i almost completely disagree with Arch and his post.... sex most certainly helps solidify love. also, for all of those old fogies who live happily togehter... i betcha they all have kids and grandkids. there is nothing better than pluggin the old lady after returning from slaying nazis (hence the Baby Boomers).
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Old 09-1-2004, 10:03 PM   #6
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If you love her so much, why won't you marry her?

I see sex as something I would only have with someone willing to make that commitment with me.
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Old 09-1-2004, 11:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
she is someone that i most certainly could marry when i am ready.
i'm 20, and off at college for another 2 years. i feel that i'm not mature enough for marriage, nor ready to make that commitment. we've only known each other and dated for a little over a year. it would be a mistake to rush into it. plus both myself and my gf are more focused on education and getting our careers started than settling down. but certainly in 3-5 years we'll consider it.

and chardish.... its really difficult to make those decisions when you're only 15 (i don't know how old you are, but i do know that the majority of the boards are...). at the same time, when i was 15 i know i wanted to get laid so badly (lost my virginity on my 17th birthday).
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Old 09-2-2004, 12:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasselfoot
its really difficult to make those decisions when you're only 15 (i don't know how old you are, but i do know that the majority of the boards are...). at the same time, when i was 15 i know i wanted to get laid so badly (lost my virginity on my 17th birthday).
I never intended on losing my virginity until the idea was proposed to me. We had sex, and I've regretted it ever since. We soon realized that we were just stupid sixteen year olds who never thought of the consequences. It ruined our relationship, and while I was proud of it for a little bit, I realize the virtue of abstinence, now that I've actually thought the matter through.
She and I are back together now, and we share a wonderful sex-free relationship. I know both of our stories are purely anecdotal, but whatever. I very much disagree with you, Tassel, and that's pretty much why.

Ugh, I really didn't want to post in this thread...

Oh, and Chardish is, what, 18? He's a freshman in college.

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She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
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Old 09-2-2004, 07:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
Oh, and Chardish is, what, 18? He's a freshman in college.
+1 smartness points for Guido.

See, it's the fact that marriage is a more difficult commitment to make than sex that is a good thing - for me at least. If I'm off having sex with someone, then I might feel obligated to marry them simply because I have no other choice. Two people might be wonderful lovers but terrible at living under the same roof, dealing with the same problems, working in such close quarters with each other.

I simply want to ensure that the person I'm going to completely surrender myself to is the person I know I'm going to be with the rest of my life. And for me, the only way I see this working is marriage first, sex later (even if it's only a few hours later.)

It's a lot easier to hop into bed with someone than to marry them. And I'll feel a lot happier hopping into bed with someone after I've married them.
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Old 09-2-2004, 09:30 PM   #10
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im wit moogy lol


but seriously, it really does depend on the relationship.
I'm so confused right now, it sucks to be 15. I don't persay want to get laid (can't say I'd turn it down of the opportunity came along, but whatever). I've completely fallen for my friend... and it has nothing to do with sex, money, or power at all. I just love talking to her, and being with her in general. so. I dunno. I guess that makes me pathetic or something.
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Old 09-2-2004, 09:38 PM   #11
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Tasselfoot, I really don't understand you...You have sex, but don't think you're mature enough for marriage. Pardon my teenage ignorance, but I feel if you are responsible to have sex with someone, shouldn't you feel responsible enough to marry that person.
What if something happens, and she becomes pregnent? I'm sure you don't want to hassle with a kid. and abortion is wrong, so I dunno how that works out.
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Old 09-2-2004, 09:48 PM   #12
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i agree with Cypher that abortion is bad its almost like murder in my point of view
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Old 09-2-2004, 11:16 PM   #13
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Immature people have sex all the time, just watch a talkshow. Im sure you've seen them, 13 yr old girls walking around talking about their latest gangbang. Or some punk 14 yr old boy talking about how many virgins he's "nailed". Sadly enough sex and love do not go hand in hand =-/
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Old 09-3-2004, 01:30 AM   #14
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The ladder theory makes me sad. I mean, the fact that you could supposedly psychoanalyze the sexual mind is just kind of depressing :/

On the other hand, when my girlfriend dumped me, she said she'd rather "view me as a friend than a boyfriend." Maybe I was - OMFG - reverse ladder jumping?!

Meh. The whole thing disgusts me more the more I think about it :/
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Old 09-3-2004, 11:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostUserName
"nailed".
The correct term is "nailing love to".
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Old 09-3-2004, 12:31 PM   #16
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chardish... being that my gf and i live on opposite coasts, when we see each other it is usually for an extended period of time, and we are with each other 24/7... take this summer... from mid may til mid august we lived together. same roof, same bed, same car for us both to get to work with every day... sex is something to be shared and enjoyed, its not a commitment. marriage is.

my gf is on the pill, so only .01% or something like that odds of pregnancy (don't use a condom), and we've both been tested for VDs. we've both had sex with people before each other, and are comfortable and confident in our abilities to have safe sex. also, we both HATE children. so... in the extremely off chance of pregnancy, we sure as hell would have an abortion. i'm not going to bring religion into this too much, but being jewish, abortion isn't preached as wrong. i don't view it as wrong because a) although it is living, it is not able to sustain itself. it has to live off of a host (mother) and b) some people just aren't ready or don't want children... and they should have the right to choose if they want to keep the bastard or not.

and eric... its called a crush or puppy love. all teenagers get it.

why is it that everyone who posts here is such a conservative... i've never run across so many holier-than-thou teenagers... why can't y'all be honry little buggers like i was/am?
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Old 09-3-2004, 12:38 PM   #17
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The baby is also a live, complete human being. He or she is simply a lot younger than any of us. Whether or not it's viable outside the womb is irrelevant. As a former fetus, I appose abortion.

I believe everyone has the right to not get pregnant. You're being responsible about your sexual activities, which is good - but you of course acknowledge the fact that there is a risk of pregnancy. Question: if you're allright with abortion then why are you even using birth control? After all, you seem to be treating abortion as just another form of birth control.
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Old 09-3-2004, 01:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasselfoot
why can't y'all be honry[sic] little buggers like i was/am?
I was, but then I grew up.

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She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
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Old 09-3-2004, 02:24 PM   #19
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sorry to hear that Guido.

and chardish... this isn't a debate over pregnancy and abortion. abortion isn't a form of birth control, its a last resort if ones measures of protection fail.... at least it should be. some that are less educated, or less able to afford BC certainly do fall in the category of abortion as a form of BC.

yes, well... we all are former fetuses, but again, its still not a self-sustaining being. if it makes you feel better, think of it as Darwinian selection... they just happened to fail first. and at the same time... say someone unable to care for a child gets pregnant... you feel that the child should be foreced to be born into poverty or a hostile environment? i'd much rather see dead fetuses than inner city slums or trailer trash.
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Old 09-3-2004, 06:58 PM   #20
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A couple of things: My name is Orli, and I am Tassel's girlfriend. Hi, yes, I am real. Also, any jokes you may have to make about my sn, believe me, I've already heard from much more enlightened wits than you. So let's not start, eh?

PLEASE NOTE: I am going to be very frank in this response to all I've read here. That includes talking about periods and dead fetuses. If you can't handle this, or it's too much information for you, please don't read this.

The ladder theory seems pretty sensible to me, but my ladders aren't quite the same as what's pictured in the article. The basis is good, okay, but the reality is that both regular and reverse ladder jumping are possible and do happen, and although we girls judge guys from the moment we see them the money and the power are really NOT the point (at least for me and my female friends, who are really all I can base this off of). We do actually care about the guy himself under his money or lack thereof. And unlike Playgirl Magazine, which intimates that a woman wants nothing but a 12" stud muffin with nothing between his ears but air, we like to TALK to a guy. And we like to know he can read, too. And think about stuff we say and read.

On to the more important topics:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypherToorima
Tasselfoot, I really don't understand you...You have sex, but don't think you're mature enough for marriage. Pardon my teenage ignorance, but I feel if you are responsible to have sex with someone, shouldn't you feel responsible enough to marry that person.
What if something happens, and she becomes pregnent? I'm sure you don't want to hassle with a kid. and abortion is wrong, so I dunno how that works out.
Please let's not turn this into a thread about abortion. Cypher's opinion is that it's wrong, lots of people feel otherwise (including me) and that's a whole other debate.

I pretty much feel the same as Tassel does. Sex and marriage are completely different things, and even if you're ready for one that most certainly does not make you ready for the other. I lost my virginity at 17 also. In no way was I ready to get married then, but I was ready to have sex and share this intimacy and admittedly fun aerobic exercise with another person.

Waiting until marriage was not right for me; it hasn't been right for anyone I know. If you want to wait until marriage and this is right for you, go for it! But don't preach to me that now that I've committed the utter sin of fornicating with someone I am happy with, I have to marry them. That would have had me married several times by now, to people I know I could never live with but had a great physical relationship with. Some of them I am still friends with, others were purely sex partners and knew it and--here's the thing--they had no problem with it. None of them wanted to get married, all of them knew I wasn't looking to trap them into marriage with sex, and everyone was happy.

Marriage is something you do when you're mentally ready for it, not just physically ready. Yes, you have to live with the other person day in and day out, and you have to compromise and do a lot of things that aren't just have sex and be happy together. I'm certain I will be able to do this. But not now. I have school (in California, but soon that will change), I have a job, and I have no desire or need to be married right now. The time I spend with Tassel is precious to me--I love him more than I can ever express, and we're both very satisfied with our relationship as it is. We can live together without going insane or hating each other, the sex is great, we're equally intelligent and creative in our mindsets, and we're emotionally connected. Why go screw all that up just for a piece of paper and better tax benefits?

As for pregnancy, I am on birth control as Tassel said. The reason I started it had nothing to do with sex--many girls are on BC from as young as 9 years old to control cramping and major bleeding problems stemming from the beginning of their periods. I was 12 when I got on it, and I don't think I'll be able to stop using it until I hit menopause because of the severe anemia and heavy bleeding that goes on if I'm off of it. I highly doubt I will get pregnant with how careful I am about taking it, but there is always that tiny chance. In this case, again in complete agreement with Tassel, I would have an abortion. This is my body, my choice, and my life, and I don't need a child that I wouldn't WANT to care for, much less be ABLE to care for, ruining it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chardish
The baby is also a live, complete human being. He or she is simply a lot younger than any of us. Whether or not it's viable outside the womb is irrelevant. As a former fetus, I appose abortion.

I believe everyone has the right to not get pregnant. You're being responsible about your sexual activities, which is good - but you of course acknowledge the fact that there is a risk of pregnancy. Question: if you're allright with abortion then why are you even using birth control? After all, you seem to be treating abortion as just another form of birth control.
Chardish, read the above and you'll see why I'm on birth control. Abortion is NOT "just another form" of it, as a whole lot of welfare bimbos seem to be using it for, but again--NOT THE POINT I'm trying to make. I don't WANT to get pregnant, so I'm avoiding it. Abortion is the last possibility in the event that such a catastrophe occurs.

And seriously, people, read up on your medical journals. A fetus is not a human being. It's not a baby yet. It's a PARASITE until approximately the 4th month of gestation, and even then it can't survive without its host. It can't think for itself, as higher neural functions don't come into play until about the 6th or 7th month of pregnancy. It can't move on its own. It can't CARE. It's basically a really really big sperm--and I don't see any of you anti-abortion boys complaining when you masturbate into a Kleenex and murder thousands of potential human beings.

Is someone going to open an abortion post so we can hash it all out there? I've got lots of fun arguments about it.
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