"Bad schoolwork ethic"

[DossarLX ODI]

I'm making this thread because I saw this post.

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

What's very sad to me is that so many people have so much potential for a better life and are completely unaware of how close they are with just a little more effort.
I might start a thread on this.

I've seen some guys on this site saying how they aren't performing their best in school because of a bad schoolwork ethic, not because they're stupid. Before anyone thinks this thread is about school = intelligence, get that out of your head right now. That is not why I made this thread, and I don't agree with that thought either.

It's moreso about the question: What makes a bad schoolwork ethic? And a bigger question is if you have a bad schoolwork ethic, why do you have it? I have seen cases of students who are actually too involved and they're forced to procrastinate so they wind up doing worse than they should. I've also seen a good amount of cases where a student gets sick and their grades plummet (or just having an unfair teacher in general).

Also on a side note, performing your best doesn't mean all 98%+ grades. Some guys get stuck at a B range because of some grade that completely throws it off, or something with the teacher prevents them from improving it (or another reason).

[Reincarnate]

Let me elaborate a bit on what I meant by that post.

In high school, lots of people just don't care to work hard because they don't see the point. School is more of a roadblock they just have to grind their way through, regardless of performance. Ultimately, people ask themselves, "Why am I learning stuff that I will never use -- why force myself to get good at this difficult crap I just do not care about?"

The end result is a bunch of people just going through the motions until they graduate and then moving onto whatever comes next in life. But for many people who missed out on college or emerged with really crappy grades, their options are so limited. Darkshark pretty much echoed my own observations here. I look back on everyone from my high school who didn't take their educations seriously. Almost all of them are working minimum-wage gigs now or stuck in retail. I don't know many people who legitimately ENJOY working such jobs.

Here's why you should care about your education: It opens doors for you in counterintuitive ways. No, you may not use that chemistry knowledge ever again. No, you may not ever need to remember what you read in Lord of the Flies. No, you may never touch a quadratic formula ever again. But doing well in school means you have a better chance of landing scholarships and acceptances to better schools which ultimately open many new opportunities for you.

And as these opportunities spawn new opportunities compounded, the gap just widens and widens.

People work hard when there's a reason to. Most people are just woefully unaware of the benefits of putting in the extra effort because they don't know WHERE to apply it and what options they have -- and what they'd be missing out on otherwise.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by KgZ

Disagree with this entirely. I think every person knows there's a reason to working hard, they're just too lazy to put the effort in anyway. And quite often, people blame others for their own responsibilities.

This doesn't involve just schoolwork, but their entire life in general.

I agree with this sentiment, but in my experience I find that most high schoolers, for example, skate through without a care because they don't see the point and have no reason to work harder.

But once you're on your own and you realize how expensive life is, so many people wish they had worked harder in school for that better life they chose to forgo because they valued immediate gratification over investment. The problem, I think, is that people don't think towards tomorrow -- they're too stuck in the "now."

[XCV]

Let me give my own (slightly irregular) experience here.

I'm pretty intelligent, and to my mother's eternal chagrin, I haven't cared about school (currently a high school senior) since I graduated from grade school. And I have a GPA of above 4.0 thanks to all the weighted classes that I've taken. I just go through the motions, do the necessary regurgitation of information, and get good grades. Quiz bowl is much more important to me, simply because I can actually work at it and be challenged. What Rubix pointed out is basically true here: I have quite the work ethic, you just have to get me to give a **** about the task at hand.

What constitutes a "bad schoolwork ethic", then? Well, a variety of things. I was plagued by an enormous sense of self-consciousness in grade school and outright refused to do anything that made me seem like an idiot in my own mind...rather like an intellectual version of anorexia. Carelessness. For some people whose parents push them (like the stereotypical Asian-American,) burnout. Other things that I've not mentioned.

Rubix is mostly correct here; just wanted to give my thoughts.

[kmay]

My work ethic is ****. Flat out. I just get things done to the point that the answers are right, but don't care to write paragraphs about it. My Gen Bio teacher named me "the king of short answers" because what someone could write a page trying to explain I could explain in 2-3 sentences, and since my answer was right she had to give me full credit.

My ethic comes in when i get an assignment with a certain length requirement. Why should i have to drag on a 10 page essay when the message is conveyed in 3 pages? I write 3 pages and get a letter grade off for it not being the right lenght (I usually end up with a B in that case). I literally just got through high school because i could. I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere because of how much it costs and my family just can't afford it. Sure there are scholarships, but there is also the cost of dorming and food once you are there.

I go to a community college for that reason. I hold down a decent part time job, 20 hours a week or so... and have a 3.12 GPA(nothing special but still a B average) and i can pay for college, gas, cell phone, food, etc. while still going to school.

Back to the ethics, I have made some friends at my college that sit down every night and study for a good hour or so. I go home and get on FFR and facebook... when the test comes around I have yet to get a lower grade then my friends. Some people just don't need a strict work ethic to grasp the concept and can perform it well on the test.
To me, homework shouldn't be manditory. Not because its a waste of time or anything, but because it's meant for extra practice, and if someone like me doesn't need that practice, the grade they get for not doing the homework does not reflect the actual grade the student should be recieving.

[Crashfan3]

Holy ****, kmay might be my clone in an educational sense.

I was the one labeled "doesn't play well with others" though out most of primary school and junior high, and at times that affected my performance educationally. Still, I made it all through to graduation without a single failing grade. A few D's here and there, but I graduated with a 3 GPA, and I'm satisfied with how my future looks.

I also agree that it's about the tests, not the homework. If you can prove that you know topics x, y, and z, then you should be qualified to do a job with those requirements.

Kind of a bad explanation because I don't want to directly plagiarize kmay and because I'm hungry. :/

[OneHandNow]

Work ethics? Really hard to grasp.

Mature enough to work hard in your teenage years? Great.
Shortsighted and want to party & play those 5-6 years? Fine with me.

But remember!

Invest those years in school for studying, and you'll get something much more in return.

[leonid]

Invest all of your life, and get your reward in the afterlife

[Oni-Paranoia]

I fall in this category 100% so let's take a quick step into someone who's actually been in that exact position.

What creates a bad school work ethic is simply influence and/or intimidation. (And some other possible factors that I'm too lazy to put down.)

I always knew school seemed pointless but the fact of it all is just to get through it to open those magical doors that give you a chance for a better life style many years from then.

Anyways, influence. It's never fun to be alone, so you pick and choose what seems best to do with your time in and out of school by those immediately around you. Some of you can argue this point and say "blah blah that wasn't me etc..." but I'm speaking for the majority on this because they're is those good seeds who manage.

As for intimidation, this can go to be a big list. It's easy to be intimidated by anything whether it's people in school, or the work itself.

Either way, if the kid next to you didn't study for a test and got a 97 while you studied and got a 70, your thought process begins to change a bit. By that time, you've probably begun to not give a **** because you can care less about taking a different approach.

Lastly, motivation in school really sucks. I never saw reason to good besides the fact of doing good. And when I did good, everyone knew I was awesome and even when I did bad, I was still awesome so I got cocky and didn't do anything. Days dragged because half of my classes I was allowed to sleep in and the other half were pure boring. Eventually that led to skipping etc... All it takes is one major drawback for someone to create that ethic, just ONE thing even if it's something like skipping a single class.

I feel like I hit a lot of areas that are possibly unnecessary, so /rant.

[OneHandNow]

Well that's where the difference lies.

If the kid next to you gets a 97 and you get a 70, do you give up?

Or do you try to find out HOW the kid next to you got a 97 while you got a 70? Maybe he studied more efficiently? Maybe he managed his time better?

That's the difference. Either you realize that you have room for improvement, or you give up.

Don't give up!

[who_cares973]

i never saw a reason to do the work in school. as long as i got what was being taught it should be ok. i started thinking like this very early on(around 4-5th grade). it wasnt until my senior year that it hit me that it didnt matter how well i knew everything, if i had nothing to show that i knew what i was taught then what i learned meant nothing

[donut holes]

Originally Posted by KgZ

Disagree with this entirely. I think every person knows there's a reason to working hard, they're just too lazy to put the effort in anyway. And quite often, people blame others for their own responsibilities.

This doesn't involve just schoolwork, but their entire life in general.

his statement is fundamentally right, your interpretation is just a little shallow. you can't simply say "well, what if the reason isn't a good enough reason but is still called a reason?" because it implies that reasons and motivations are objective. it's easy to project your own image of what's reasonable and unreasonable because it may be generally accepted, but it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by donut holes

his statement is fundamentally right, your interpretation is just a little shallow. you can't simply say "well, what if the reason isn't a good enough reason but is still called a reason?" because it implies that reasons and motivations are objective. it's easy to project your own image of what's reasonable and unreasonable because it may be generally accepted, but it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Sounds a little hypocritical. Most people project opinions based on what might be considered "average" and in this case, it seems like it hits the nail on the head.

Example: If a man kills his wife and two kids, he might be considered "mentally ill" but does that mean the man really is? No. But it's the opinion the media, police, and most others would state because the average person that would do such a thing is "mentally ill".

[donut holes]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Sounds a little hypocritical. Most people project opinions based on what might be considered "average" and in this case, it seems like it hits the nail on the head.

Example: If a man kills his wife and two kids, he might be considered "mentally ill" but does that mean the man really is? No. But it's the opinion the media, police, and most others would state because the average person that would do such a thing is "mentally ill".

i'm saying that rubix's logic is fundamentally sound and it's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with it, it's entirely dependent on the context it's used in.

[dore]

My story:

To the outside person, I usually seem notoriously lazy and just skate through, even though I still seemed to succeed grade-wise. I graduated high school rank 7, which was skewed because I had many less weighted classes due to taking band 8 semesters in block system, but I had good enough grades to beat most people (I was rank 2 behind our eventual valedictorian before the fewer-than-the-rest-of-the-top-ten AP classes really started to kick in). But I got 100%s in classes in which I was asleep half the time, where other people had to work really hard to get A's. A lot of people against whom I competed in high school didn't really like me because it seemed like I was beating them with no effort whatsoever.

I ended up going to a pretty small state school (Appalachian State University) with a full ride. Judging by where the other people in my graduating class went, I probably could have gone to one of the more reputable schools in the region (such as UVA or Duke or whatever), but I went where it was free lol. To a lot of people, they thought I was just being lazy or something, but I really like the school and just didn't want to go anywhere else.

But my desire for underachieving, if you want to call it that, comes from much earlier in school. In elementary/middle school, I was always the smartest kid in the class and I could nearly always answer every question the teacher would ask. But I was also very self-conscious (especially in middle school) and didn't want to be that guy who answers everything, so I would usually not answer. Like many kids, I didn't think being the smart kid was cool, so I always tried to downplay my grades and what not. That kinda led to me not being overly competitive in high school (and I guess in college as well).

So it seemed to other people like I had no work ethic, but I never felt the need to put in a ton of effort when I could get just as good of grades by not putting in any effort and just relying on my natural ability. Obviously, I can't always rely on natural ability, and I have to put in much more effort in college, but that was my story through high school. Had I not been innately intelligent, I never would've had good grades in high school because of the lack of effort I put in.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by dore

My story:

To the outside person, I usually seem notoriously lazy and just skate through, even though I still seemed to succeed grade-wise. I graduated high school rank 7, which was skewed because I had many less weighted classes due to taking band 8 semesters in block system, but I had good enough grades to beat most people (I was rank 2 behind our eventual valedictorian before the fewer-than-the-rest-of-the-top-ten AP classes really started to kick in). But I got 100%s in classes in which I was asleep half the time, where other people had to work really hard to get A's. A lot of people against whom I competed in high school didn't really like me because it seemed like I was beating them with no effort whatsoever.

I ended up going to a pretty small state school (Appalachian State University) with a full ride. Judging by where the other people in my graduating class went, I probably could have gone to one of the more reputable schools in the region (such as UVA or Duke or whatever), but I went where it was free lol. To a lot of people, they thought I was just being lazy or something, but I really like the school and just didn't want to go anywhere else.

But my desire for underachieving, if you want to call it that, comes from much earlier in school. In elementary/middle school, I was always the smartest kid in the class and I could nearly always answer every question the teacher would ask. But I was also very self-conscious (especially in middle school) and didn't want to be that guy who answers everything, so I would usually not answer. Like many kids, I didn't think being the smart kid was cool, so I always tried to downplay my grades and what not. That kinda led to me not being overly competitive in high school (and I guess in college as well).

So it seemed to other people like I had no work ethic, but I never felt the need to put in a ton of effort when I could get just as good of grades by not putting in any effort and just relying on my natural ability. Obviously, I can't always rely on natural ability, and I have to put in much more effort in college, but that was my story through high school. Had I not been innately intelligent, I never would've had good grades in high school because of the lack of effort I put in.

You were use to lacking effort and creating good grades and you were just straight accustomed to that even when you tried to "downgrade". Others like me decided to lack effort and continue to lack everything else, like an addiction.

[foxfire667]

Personally, I'd have to say that any form of bad school/work ethic would have to come from a mentality gained from somewhere in your life, which baically emulated the idea that actually getting the job done is unneessary, or does not effect you enough as somehing else does. Maybe this means that you feel school and homework don't have as much of an effect on you as missing out on a rock concert with your friends...or possibly that you feel like you can barely pass without doing certain things, so you decide not to do them. This plays back on whether or not you know the effects of not doing well in school, or that it doesn't satasfy you to do good when you could be doing a, b, and c of whatever that you enjoy doing instead.

As for your side note though, usually those that try hard enough (whom are not mentally unable to grasp the concept) will not fall into that situation. Yes, there are occasions where teachers are strict or unjust, or possibly that one serious asignment weighs down a person's grade...but if they are doing good throughout all the other areas of the class it should not destroy their grade, or if it was that serious of an assignment they would have been trying hard enough to at least have remembered to complete it. If you are a person who has a decent school ethic, chances are you won't be annoying your teacher...so any form of bias they may have would probably not apply to you as much considering you are "a good seed in the group". In addition, teachers usually are out to help students, and in such a situation you could probably stay after school of ask for additional projects to boost your grade up to a disirable number.

As for myself personally...I don't exactly try hard in school at all. I try based on how much is required of me to acheve at the very minimum an A- (which is fairly easy for the majority of the time) but in situations where more is expected, I just try harder to get the desired grade. I've been on the superior honor roll all through high school...generaly because it's not too hard to pull off and because I know it is going to help me in the long run (I was fairly lax and didn't care what my grades were until specifically 8th gade, when I was submitting for high schools and preparing for my future). Although, it isn't like school consumes me to get decent grades or anything...I mean, I procrastinate everything...play FFR, hang out, code, etc before even considering homework (which usually gets pushed to like 11PM before I start it), study for tests in home-room, etc. The only thing I can think of that might partially answer this is I don't like human error, and when I don't know something, get something incorrect...or when something is below par for me I always find out why and how to fix it.

[Without A Contraceptive]

Originally Posted by dore

I ended up going to a pretty small state school (Appalachian State University) with a full ride.

yo come over for a drink. i live on poplar grove rd right by ingles off 105 sucka

[dore]

I'll try to remember that

[Mulie]

People don't know anything. We gather information by using language and communication to integrate the collective wisdom of others into ourselves.

That collective wisdom alone doesn't provide much of any abstract insight. Sometimes we engage in introspecting, and when we do, our methods and observations are stylized by our peripheral scope. Yet in conversationally incited introspection (when other people are involved), our observations seem to be limited by the presence of the collective whole.

We're put into school at a stage where we couldn't possibly comprehend its significance; whatever that may turn out to be in the future. (Some people conclude its benefit is in gaining some sort of advantage in The Rat Race; a metaphor I think very well describes the general human condition.) Thus, being unable to introspect, those people that place emphasis on schoolwork at the high school stage (the successful people) do so because they have been influenced in a way inclining them to place emphasis on whatever was needed to get them working; not because they have a profound reason.

This same argument applies to many different things, though the matter of schoolwork in high school is a particularly good example. People so young have little to no experiences with which to derive a solution to the question of why they have to go through high school, so generally speaking, even under the laxest definition of "free will", in the big picture there's really little to none.