Illiterate America

[super kid]

In my English class we are doing a lot of readings on illiteracy in America. It is a big problem and more than 92 million Americans have low or very low literacy skills. I just want to get what everyone's point of view is on this subject, and how you believe it hurts the country.

Edit: In America I mean the United States.

http://education-portal.com/articles...n_Society.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Shamef...erica&id=23757

http://lci.typepad.com/leaders_resou...-literacy.html

[foilman8805]

Please provide some reasonable (and credible) statistical evidence that supports that claim. I'll be more willing to discuss the implications of this with a bit of fact at hand.

You're saying that a very, very large portion of the population struggles with reading issues...I just want to make sure that's actually correct.

EDIT: I'm aware you mean the United States.

[Izzy]

The united states has around a 99.7% literacy rate. I don't think it is hurting anyone but the individuals themselves.

edit: nvm the sources I found only say 99%

[super kid]

Links in first post. I really just want to know how you think illiteracy a problem and how it can hurt people in the United States.

[devonin]

This government study showed that 21% to 23% of adult Americans were not "able to locate information in text", could not "make low-level inferences using printed materials", and were unable to "integrate easily identifiable pieces of information."

Maybe not illiterate, but certainly literacy deficient.

[vantilburg]

Just how inept would one have to be with reading to be considered illiterate? Would it be being able to read the material, regardless of the time required, or would it be able to analyze the material and understand what it's saying?
Because cognition varies on many levels

[foilman8805]

super kid, maybe you should start by sharing your own viewpoint with us. Stimulate a little discussion?

[Syhto]

Even if there is a problem with illiteracy in the united states, what more are you going to do? Children are mandated by law to attend school. Even parents are being thrown in jail over these things. I'm assuming most of the illiteracy issues stem from those with special needs.

[reuben_tate]

There is not much we can do. Many of the illerate (or should I say literate deficient) people can't properly read and write either because they are too lazy to learn or they have some mental health condition.

[Reach]

Well, if we look at the trends, from studies I have read, literacy is about as high now as it was 30 and 40 years ago, maybe even higher in certain areas (e.g. quantitative skills).

So if America is illiterate, it has always been illiterate.

Is it even possible to change this without increasing the intelligence of the country? Probably, but there's a limit. A certain portion of the population is always going to be illiterate; their IQ is too low to ever be literate. Many people that are also borderline in intelligence are never going to do well enough in school to become literate, and most of their parents are unintelligent as well.

The easiest way to increase literacy would be to...increase the intelligence of the country as a whole, but good luck putting into motion a plan that would restrict reproduction in those that are less able.


So yeah, it's a problem in that the greater the portion of illiterate people in the population, the greater the portion of people unable to do skilled work, which contributes to GDP, quality of living, etc.

However, given that America is pretty much on top of the totem pole in these terms, I can't seriously see it as a problem, at least speaking relative to other countries. I would worry more about the literacy rates in poor countries, which would severely hamper their ability to develop skilled work in medicine and business etc.

[Izzy]

Maybe companies should stop hiring people who aren't capable of adequately doing the work they need to.

Let natural selection roll in a little and things should work out. People will be more driven to become more literate then they are over the generations and possibly america will become a little more intelligent as a whole.

[Crashfan3]

True, Izzy, but even the most brain-dead can get jobs serving up burgers and fries.

Plus, even if the parents can't make money, that still doesn't stop them from making stupid decisions (since they're stupid), and having seven or eight children. Those children have seven or eight children, and so on... it's a disease that can't be cured.

We can create dams to keep the river held back, but we can't stop the mighty flow, so to speak.

The only way I can think of to greatly reduce the problem, as immature as it sounds, is with some kind of Hitler scenario, or some other form of massive human intervention.

The chances of that happening again in the next century are unlikely, which is a good thing. The last thing modern humanity needs is more genocide.

[Izzy]

I don't believe that children are doomed from the get go. People are stupid because of their lack of motivation or education. I think the child of two unintelligent people can be educated to the point of excellent literacy.

Literacy is a concept of knowledge and knowledge is gained after birth, not inherited.

I understand there is a point after being born that makes it nearly impossible to learn how to speak. But there have been cases of completely feral children being taught how to read and understand a language.

It's possible that stupid people are most likely not well off and would then give less education opportunities for their children, but that seems like the only issue to me.

[Crashfan3]

Yeah, but how many kids born in situations like even think that's possible for them?

Every now and then you hear about some charitable organization picking one or two kids out of poverty and giving them a good home, and they turn out all right, or some kid who's determined and dedicated to make something out of himself actually succeeds.

Unfortunately, most of the time, it's seems to be "like father, like son". Dad's a drunken, unemployed hopeless wreck, and so Billy ends up the same way.

I know there's no facts or statistics to back that statement up (that I know of anyway), but to put it simply: genetics gives them a bad start, and while there may be a glimmer of hope, an environment that discourages learning, or some other form of abusive environment, generally kills that last bit of hope off.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I don't believe that children are doomed from the get go. People are stupid because of their lack of motivation or education. I think the child of two unintelligent people can be educated to the point of excellent literacy.

Literacy is a concept of knowledge and knowledge is gained after birth, not inherited.

I understand there is a point after being born that makes it nearly impossible to learn how to speak. But there have been cases of completely feral children being taught how to read and understand a language.

It's possible that stupid people are most likely not well off and would then give less education opportunities for their children, but that seems like the only issue to me.

My parents did not go to college and barely got through high school -- I turned out alright.

What was vital for me, though, was learning to read very early and being given a computer at a very young age. Best things my parents ever did for me.

[Reach]

Literacy is a concept of knowledge and knowledge is gained after birth, not inherited.

This is true; however, people that are more intelligent gain more knowledge over time than people of less intelligence, and intelligence is partially inherited. That is, one aspect of intelligence is the ability to learn, and some people do it naturally faster than others.

We know this because there is a proportional relationship between your ability to perform some fluid intelligence task (e.g. solving from scratch a problem that you are entirely unfamiliar with) and performance on a general knowledge and literacy test.


As such, literacy is not something that can be magically fixed. There will always be people that do not have the natural capacity to obtain literacy.

Unfortunately, most of the time, it's seems to be "like father, like son". Dad's a drunken, unemployed hopeless wreck, and so Billy ends up the same way.

I know there's no facts or statistics to back that statement up

People do have a tendency to end up like their parents. This is because of genetic and environmental reasons, which makes your assumption correct.

People that get inferior genes do get off to a bad start, and this only snowballs. Someone born of inferior natural intelligence will accumulate less skills over time, which leaves them less options in terms of employment in the future, etc. Slippery slope.

My parents did not go to college and barely got through high school -- I turned out alright.

you know anecdotes have nothing to do with population trends :P

Not to mention that barely getting through high school is not causally linked to low intelligence. My dad was the same way but is highly intelligent and very literate and successful either way.

Chances are you parents are pretty smart regardless, which is what you inherited, and combined with a better environment than they received, you achieved much more in the long run.

What is vital is always genes + environment. If one is lacking, so will success.

[N.T.M.]

lol Just wait 'til you get a job (if you don't have one already).

It's incredibly prevalent. =P

Originally Posted by devonin

Maybe not illiterate, but certainly literacy deficient.

Yeah I kinda assumed that's what he meant.

Originally Posted by vantilburg

Just how inept would one have to be with reading to be considered illiterate? Would it be being able to read the material, regardless of the time required, or would it be able to analyze the material and understand what it's saying?
Because cognition varies on many levels

It is a somewhat subjective question, but I really think you're over analyzing it.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I don't believe that children are doomed from the get go. People are stupid because of their lack of motivation or education. I think the child of two unintelligent people can be educated to the point of excellent literacy.

There is an indelible aspect of predisposition, but in general I agree. Also realize that an impoverished environment exacerbates this issue. By recruiting mental faculties regularly you're actually literally building your brain (there are visible differences). I'd presume that this is even more critical in the formative years of childhood.

[Izzy]

I think like reach was saying. There is always going to be a number of people less literate then others. That is something that just happens by nature.


So saying that a natural phenomenon is causing millions or billions of lost revenue doesn't make sense because it's money we never had and never will have. So it is only causing us to not make as much money, not lose money. In the business world they see that as the same thing but I don't agree with that.

It's similar to saying how the united states being so long it is causing business millions of dollars in shipping costs because they have to spend so much on gas. Well ok, but that isn't something you can fix. That is just a static issue that wont change.

[Cenright]

I believe that THINKING is the main issue. As Devonin brought out in his quote. It wasn't the reading, but being able to identify exactly what was important. As others stated later, motivation is another factor.

Society is built on habits. You do what is acceptable, because that is what everyone is doing. In France they have nude beaches, and that is fully acceptable, being that the habit has already formed directly into the culture. In China, they have forced the population into accepting what is told to them, and now that they need forward thinkers, it is nearly impossible for them to train them, because it is completely against the habits that the government has forced, and that their Grandparents, Parents, and Peers have all accepted as the norm.

In the US, people are believe that they are ENTITLED to being stuck up, superior, and you be proud that you are the country with the biggest guns. People are free to decide what they want for the most part, but everyone looks to others for a good amount of that, so as to still fit in. The media becomes a huge factor in that, and the media only wants to sell what sells the best. With so much information being force fed through TV and Newspapers, when does someone ever have time to think for themselves.

Parents do the training for critical thinking, it starts when they are beginning to talk. By the time they are in Kindergarten, they should already have some of that, and it shouldn't end there. The school systems are getting more and more into tests, tests, tests. Stuff those kids full of info, have them throw it all back up on the test page, and if the score is high, GREAT! Schools are also getting away from critical thinking. I have spoken to some teachers of 2nd - 5th grades that would LOVE to teach some of those higher thinking skills, but they are so loaded down with what the State demands that the kids be force fed, there just isn't any time to do it.

It is the job of the parent. If the parents are both at work, and when at home they are sitting in front of the TV, or they have to work because there is only one parent, then the child never gets any of the higher thinking skills needed to think for themselves.

I believe that is the root of the illiteracy that is spoken of here.

[Mollocephalus]

what you say is very true, and the problem is inside the structure of society. there is no society that encourages breaking up from traditions. the concept of tradition itself is detrimental at this point, because it's a package of unspoken rules, norms and actions that do not undergo the necessary scrutinazion and wide-range analisys and, even worse, places its roots in the very early stages of development, making it almost impossible to change afterwards.