Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

[psychoangel691]

So for the last 5? officials at this point we've been using all new files for every round in every division. As you can imagine this can sometimes make things tough and hold up start dates trying to fill in all those slots with files that are of proper difficulty.

I was thinking about maybe going back to how it was done in (I believe it was the 5th official) where the files were selected from those in game already aside from the final round. I think this may be better with summer already creeping around the corner but I wanted to see what everyone's opinion was on this.

Leave a vote in the poll above and mention why you feel that way.


Thanks!

[YoshL]

can you create an option for "i don't mind what happens", because I'm okay with either structure for the tournament

[ilikexd]

I think new charts make it more exciting, fun, and competitive and that it increases the interest or "hype". It, to me, is one of the things that makes it stand out the most from the unofficial tournaments.

The only two reasons I can think of for not doing this are that not enough new charts have been through submission and acceptance to fill all round slots, and at a certain point the game becomes flooded with content.

I don't think there's a good reason to change how it currently is unless there is actually no prospect of filling slots, which is not really a good reason as much as doing so out of necessity. Although judgement has stagnated, there is still the option of creating some streamlined process strictly for the official that still ensures a sufficient level of quality control.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I think new charts make it more exciting, fun, and competitive and that it increases the interest or "hype". It, to me, is one of the things that makes it stand out the most from the unofficial tournaments.

The only two reasons I can think of for not doing this are that not enough new charts have been through submission and acceptance to fill all round slots, and at a certain point the game becomes flooded with content.

I don't think there's a good reason to change how it currently is unless there is actually no prospect of filling slots, which is not really a good reason as much as doing so out of necessity. Although judgement has stagnated, there is still the option of creating some streamlined process strictly for the official that still ensures a sufficient level of quality control.

As of right now there's no way the official will happen in the summer if it's all new charts. There's not enough in queue and things are backed up. Finding the right charts to fill out that many rounds in that many divisions that are of appropriate difficulty is difficult when things are running normally. How things are now I would anticipate the tournament wouldn't start till late September.

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

How things are now I would anticipate the tournament wouldn't start till late September.

I would be fine with this if it means getting new material every week for the tournament, that's one of my favorite parts of participating in them. The backlogging of files should start getting taken care of soon too as the judge applications recently started which should help out.

[mrpreggers]

guess i'm the only no here rip i'd rather wait a few months for you guys to amass new files than play old files we've scored well on/mindblocked

[badman7772]

C'mon guys. You got over 1700 public songs and you need more for an official? It just shows how spoiled the community is. Even I feel like some songs are new when I'm asked to play them in a tournament nowadays.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

As of right now there's no way the official will happen in the summer if it's all new charts. There's not enough in queue and things are backed up. Finding the right charts to fill out that many rounds in that many divisions that are of appropriate difficulty is difficult when things are running normally. How things are now I would anticipate the tournament wouldn't start till late September.

I don't mean to hijack this thread by going too far off onto a tangent, but I think that, as a whole, the mass of submissions that are still pending judgement could cover the greater part of what would be at most 7x10 slots, and that slots at either end of the difficulty spectrum can be specifically filled if needed as per usual. It's just that the ratio of the amount of effort it takes to process and accept content for the game to the ratio that it takes simply to create that content is so monstrous that it has historically reflected in backups and lateness and now in this case stagnation. I simply don't think that the current process under a reduction in activity can persist; in fact, it already has ceased, and that doesn't bode well for organizing activity-producing events such as the official tournament. But I know that it's a quite inopportune time to implement or even contemplate such drastic changes given the calamity of recent events.

[psychoangel691]

I had to run out so I'll reply more when I get home. I'll add poll options for neutral as well as mix of new and old files.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by mrpreggers

guess i'm the only no here rip i'd rather wait a few months for you guys to amass new files than play old files we've scored well on/mindblocked

Originally Posted by Gradiant

I would be fine with this if it means getting new material every week for the tournament, that's one of my favorite parts of participating in them. The backlogging of files should start getting taken care of soon too as the judge applications recently started which should help out.

For what it's worth, I also agree with this. If needed I think it would be better to wait.

However I would stress that summer really is the best time for the official given it's when everyone has the most free time and activity and the community peaks.

[Deadlyx39]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but official last year was late September right?
Anyway it seemed to me as a spectator last year that the new files made everything look so much nicer to me as a person who hadn't been on the site in quite a while.
It makes it look like the community cares a lot about the official to people who may be like me who haven't been on the site in a long time.

[Zageron]

There is always an option of reducing "Songs of the Week" to "Song" of the week, to help accelerate the growth of the back-log. Is that a feasible idea?

[choof]

i would be perfectly fine reusing old files and not putting players on a more level ground
i would also be perfectly fine reusing old files and not clearing up the backlog of files

[Wayward Vagabond]

I much rather prefer playing old files with only the last two rounds being the only rounds with new songs. The game is over saturated with files that receive very little plays because of all the songs that the game currently has already. So unless we start retiring files I would much rather recycle songs for the tourney than use new ones all the time. There were no complaints with this before I don't see why there should be any now

[psychoangel691]

From my own personal standpoint, I'm leaning towards having a mix of old and new files for the tournament for a few of the reasons already mentioned such as the game really is pretty saturated already, and it's extremely difficult to fill all slots with brand new content. Every official we end up reaching out for internal files from people because we can't fill the slots and it's caused drama.

[Rapta]

What I would PREFER is to have new files entirely.

What may be necessary at this point is a mixture, even though I hate the idea.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't mean to hijack this thread by going too far off onto a tangent, but I think that, as a whole, the mass of submissions that are still pending judgement could cover the greater part of what would be at most 7x10 slots, and that slots at either end of the difficulty spectrum can be specifically filled if needed as per usual. It's just that the ratio of the amount of effort it takes to process and accept content for the game to the ratio that it takes simply to create that content is so monstrous that it has historically reflected in backups and lateness and now in this case stagnation. I simply don't think that the current process under a reduction in activity can persist; in fact, it already has ceased, and that doesn't bode well for organizing activity-producing events such as the official tournament. But I know that it's a quite inopportune time to implement or even contemplate such drastic changes given the calamity of recent events.

You would be surprised how difficult it is to fill in the slots with files of appropriate difficulty even with a ton of submitted files. There always tends to be a lot of files condensed in a certain difficulty area it seems. Easier files are almost impossible to come by. So even with all the backlog, I bet you we couldn't fill the slots needed.

When it comes to things being backlogged in the first place unfortunately it just happened. There just haven't been enough active judges and I know they're working to fix that. As of right now I'm just trying to make sure I can keep events moving smoothly along regardless of the situation.

Originally Posted by Deadlyx39

Correct me if I'm wrong, but official last year was late September right?
Anyway it seemed to me as a spectator last year that the new files made everything look so much nicer to me as a person who hadn't been on the site in quite a while.
It makes it look like the community cares a lot about the official to people who may be like me who haven't been on the site in a long time.

It wasn't supposed to be, it was supposed to be in the summer. It was held up due to not having enough files of the correct difficulties to fill slots. This is a problem even when things aren't backed up every tournament. Now that it is backed up it could be even worse. I'm projecting late September but it could go beyond that depending how fast everything gets cleared up and if we can hold special batches to fill in the lower and the extremely high area because there are always files missing in those ranges.

Summer is the preferred time for the tournament because people are out of school and generally have more free time.

Originally Posted by Zageron

There is always an option of reducing "Songs of the Week" to "Song" of the week, to help accelerate the growth of the back-log. Is that a feasible idea?

Really this wouldn't make a difference if the files don't fit in specific difficulties. The problem is with the system being backed up we can't hold the special batches we'd need to in order to gain the difficulty ranges we'd need.

Right now all I can do is get with game management and see what in queue would fit into the tournament and see what's still missing and go from there. I'm not really sure where things are as of right now with getting new judges and getting things rolling. I'll get with them over the weekend if they're available.

[psychoangel691]

I'd say probably the best option would be to use files in game up until the prize rounds. Then use all new files for the prize rounds of the tournament. That would make it half and half. (this may still be pretty difficult with the higher files that would be needed, but would be more likely than all new for the whole thing).

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

I much rather prefer playing old files with only the last two rounds being the only rounds with new songs. The game is over saturated with files that receive very little plays because of all the songs that the game currently has already. So unless we start retiring files I would much rather recycle songs for the tourney than use new ones all the time. There were no complaints with this before I don't see why there should be any now

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

From my own personal standpoint, I'm leaning towards having a mix of old and new files for the tournament for a few of the reasons already mentioned such as the game really is pretty saturated already, and it's extremely difficult to fill all slots with brand new content. Every official we end up reaching out for internal files from people because we can't fill the slots and it's caused drama.

I understand the reasoning as a reaction to the current problems of oversaturation and difficulty in gathering content

These problems have affected things before, they are affecting things now since the structure of the official is being suggested to be changed (and it is not the structure itself that is the issue), and they will continue to affect things in the future: future officials and even a regular SOTW.

The fact of that matter is this: the current judgement process is not compatible with the current level of work that can be put into it. It's pessimistic, but I don't think this will be fully or even mostly solved by new judges, although it will help. With no system by which stepcharts are removed or segregated/unraked, the pool of available charts will grow ad infinitum, which clutters the game and makes completionism unattractive. But at the same time new content, especially for the officials, is a driving force of interest and activity and something a game like this can't live without.

The fact that this thread's question exists is a symptom of these problems and they need to be dealt with. Again, sorry for the tangent, but I feel this absolutely needs to be pointed out. Maybe it's a discussion better suited for another time/thread.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

From my own personal standpoint, I'm leaning towards having a mix of old and new files for the tournament for a few of the reasons already mentioned such as the game really is pretty saturated already, and it's extremely difficult to fill all slots with brand new content. Every official we end up reaching out for internal files from people because we can't fill the slots and it's caused drama.

If it's a mix of new and old charts I think it would be important for at least 2-3 new charts to be used each round, so each division has a chance of new content and to keep interest generally elevated. At the same time I know that towards the final rounds, particularly for d6 and d7, players dread playing very hard charts that they've already played ad nauseam, became frustrated with, or mindblocked, and emphasis tends to be one on hoping they get lucky in drawing one of the charts they like or at least that they don't hate. So later rounds should be at least mostly new charts, moderately leveling out the playing field.

[tosh]

Originally Posted by Rapta

What I would PREFER is to have new files entirely.

What may be necessary at this point is a mixture, even though I hate the idea.

Pretty much my stance on this. As someone who has played in officials using only new files (recent officials) and ones using only files already in game (older officials): the current format of only using new files is much, much more exciting and fun imo.

However, I know the stress that the organizers and step artists go through to quickly pump out files (internally) in order to fill every round. So a combination of old and new might be best. Considering that there are 8 rounds, the new files could be alternated each round. Example: D1, D3, D5, and D7 get new files in round 1 whereas D2, D4, and D6 get old files in round 1. In round 2 the divisions get flipped so D2, D4, and D6 get the new files. The rest of the tournament would continue on with this alternating pattern. With this, each division would get the same number of new files, but D7 would be stuck with using an old file for the final round (could be seen as good or bad).