TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

[_Zenith_]

Right about Tokzic
Right about Gradiant

Hmmm

[_Zenith_]

@Sunfan when you see this:

Did any of your reads change during night phase?

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Right about Tokzic
Right about Gradiant

Hmmm

red flag

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

@Sunfan when you see this:

Did any of your reads change during night phase?

maybe or maybe not?
I'm not talking about reads till other people do

[inDheart]

wahoo, i need sleep and the forums keep database erroring, so here's my first two, rest will come later

6. DaBackpack town

(i did this one in reverse post order and you can probably tell)

- fwiw i think dbp's entrance was hilarious, and the only one really calling attention to that flipped red (at least, the only one i remember, because xel never shut up about it lmao)
- he brings up yoshl's behavior and then elaborates on that (see below for more as well) earlier on d0, which is notable for his consistency later on calling this out
- he read into Mashi pretty hard in search of someone to push d0, calling him generally too neutral. gradiant called him out for this post, but i see it more as resignation that what he's saying isn't gaining much traction. in response to gradiant he comes back to yoshl and mashi. then he really pushes yoshl hard. (i have more to say on this later)
- but this post, one of his more recent ones (from d1), likes yoshl's point about MML's vigi focus potentially being a setup for a later vigi cover-up claim. yoshl has been pretty zoned in on MML, but DBP called the focus on MML "worrisome" on d1. (this is in contradiction to early d0 where he did not feel as good about MML and called him "my top wolf lean", but consistent with later d0 where he's iso someone else to look at)

i definitely see dbp as town, because his observations and focus have been consistent with trying to search out good lynch candidates - just because of the timing and with so many people wolf reading him, they didn't gain better traction.

9. _Zenith_ null -> wolf

- did a quality reread (honestly that's to be expected though)
- he (and DBP) probably put the most thought into tokzic's situation
- part of why i see you as more null, though (switching to second person because you're here as i write this), is after that you mostly zoned in on yoshiisland. sure that turned out okay. you're up front about not putting as much work in, but island is an interesting target to focus on when your previous day's impression was null -> town and even "who". sunfan was in the right to call you out about your second round of reads, really
- you don't get points for being right about xel when you gave up on xel's meta. you don't get points for being right about tokzic when you voted for the lynch in full support of gradiant, who called him scum for lying.

you just seem over-eager to go "hey look guys look what i did" when there are little mini contradictions in your play that belie the earnesty of your efforts.

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by inDheart

- did a quality reread (honestly that's to be expected though)

dammit i mean first read

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by YoshL

red flag

like actually though

[_Zenith_]

You and YoshL are both wrong even if I cannot put words together to defend myself correctly.

[YoshL]

it's very similar to the storn or botchi syndrome - simply put, when they're somehow very right during the game, it feels very strange

like, can you elaborate exactly your thoughts that lead you to be "right" about gradiant and tokzic?

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by YoshL

it's very similar to the storn or botchi syndrome - simply put, when they're somehow very right during the game, it feels very strange

like, can you elaborate exactly your thoughts that lead you to be "right" about gradiant and tokzic?

Gradiant - Ever since the AA battle the battle itself seemed Town v Town at the time and Gradiant really never took a solid stance until the Tokzic thing. He battled various players but any of his aggression went alongside a town mindset, pushing players for answers, not for lynches. Usually I don't know how to read Gradiant other than he's never too fond of myself but this game it completely changed, him and sunfan to me were clear towns and nothing could falter the idea (in my next multiquote post I'll be pointing out what did it for me with them two even though Sunfan is confirmed at the moment).

About Gradiant though, I didn't feel the same way with DBP along with his battles against players. I know Sunfan is onto something with the emotional gameplay, something not quite seen in DBP too frequently as a wolf even though right now his wolf meta wants to take over but shouldn't due to inactivity. Just food for thought since they have similar situations this game other than inactivity inflicting DBP.

Tokzic - Ever since the claim and after n0 when we lost AA (VT) and Arnt (PR), I felt really strange because what he did is probably exactly what I would've done had people not given me comments on my playstyle that I heavily considered. He was a VT, choose to take a shot for PR; doing so in a horrific fashion that did him in because he didn't pull it off early yet still wanted to continue?? I see why he continued, he was hoping PR didn't say anything and let his claim be the center of attention (See: Game where I claimed Sunfan's role and he let me lead because he read perfectly what I was doing). This post:

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Why would the last PR in your hypothetical universe ever respond to my hardclaim?



If you root around Lar's unjustified ad hominem garbage, he does make one valid point: If I was a wolf, hardclaiming the last blue role is almost autolose. I'd be revealed the second the last blue died or claimed.

AND YET I'M DOING IT ANYWAY. Almost like... I'm the real PR...

Makes you think.

Bolded gave off a very uncomfortable but a logical point that I first read as possible WIFOM AFTER Gradiant had countered the claim, and that led me to lynch Tokzic. I still had my doubts about Tokzic flipping wolf, but at that moment I just wanted Tokzic lynched because it provided bad content and a horrible jumping off point in finding the last wolf because of his shit.

You had something I am starting to agree with upon looking back, but refrained from posting it because you're already suspicious of my changed behavior and style this game that I don't want a push on myself this late into the game when my reads have been on point.

[_Zenith_]

Is it bad I might have switched inDheart from a wolf to a really bad town?

I don't think it's that bad, I think his reads are terrible this game and this is the second time he's used influence to support a read (First from Sunfan, now from YoshL) so whereas I originally thought he could've been a decent wolf candidate, I just think he's now backpacking because he isn't developing good reads and he may know this even before he reads this post.

[_Zenith_]

Oops forgot to bold

Bolded in Tokzic quote should be "If I was a wolf, hardclaiming the last blue role is almost autolose"

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

You had something I am starting to agree with upon looking back, but refrained from posting it because you're already suspicious of my changed behavior and style this game that I don't want a push on myself this late into the game when my reads have been on point.

fwiw, it's about Mashi

[_Zenith_]

Reads list inc shortly, just alignments not in-depth just yet

[_Zenith_]

6. DaBackpack - Null
10. MixMasterLar - Slight Town
11. thesunfan - Confirmed
12. inDheart - Bad Town
13. T-Force - I think slot is clean for the time being
15. Charles Claythorne (AKA MASHI) - Getting Null
16. YoshL - Town

[_Zenith_]

I'm not sure if I would lynch MML here

It'd be a possibility but I lynched him the last game and he's playing similarly to that and he was town so thus warranting a slight town read for now

DBP is null because post-game ranting about inactivity

Mashi is something I need to make a post on to get my read clearly out there without using YoshL's read on the take but merely referencing it

[YoshL]

you claimed to be right about tokzic, but pushed for his lynch anyways. Why did you feel the need to point that out? Like, the fact that you purposefully drew attention to like "I was right about tokzic and gradiant hmmm... i wonder what this could mean"

and given your reasoning on tokzic is very shaky to say the least (his latest posts felt weird? how about look at the fact that he was softing the whole entire game, didn't die, even when there was only 1 confirmed PR left, softed even harder)

I get hindsight 20/20 and his actions kinda make sense, but at the same time, you've literally said "i was right about tokzic" but in your "why" post, said that "tokzic was looking wolfy so i wanted to lynch him". That's the complete opposite of being right about tokzic.

also, the fact that you're not scumreading anyone is also alarming, especially at this point. You claim to have "on point" reads, but clearly either A) they're not because you have no scum leans at all, or B) you are the last scum, leading to your "on point" reads.

[_Zenith_]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I saw Tokzic being a wolf, you cannot honestly say that his entire play this game screamed VT

Even without reading him as a wolf, he deserved to die and you know this. It's bad enough we have one completely inactive person that hinders town and he was also hindering town with his bullshit. I believe by what Sunfan said we still have what, three mislynches? You care to propose to use one of them on me?

How about instead of trying to concentrate on my reads, you instead post some of your own?

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Bolded gave off a very uncomfortable but a logical point that I first read as possible WIFOM AFTER Gradiant had countered the claim, and that led me to lynch Tokzic. I still had my doubts about Tokzic flipping wolf, but at that moment I just wanted Tokzic lynched because it provided bad content and a horrible jumping off point in finding the last wolf because of his shit.

"i wanted my town read lynched, not because his actions made him look scummy, but because he was playing badly" mhm

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I saw Tokzic being a wolf, you cannot honestly say that his entire play this game screamed VT

Even without reading him as a wolf, he deserved to die and you know this. It's bad enough we have one completely inactive person that hinders town and he was also hindering town with his bullshit. I believe by what Sunfan said we still have what, three mislynches? You care to propose to use one of them on me?

How about instead of trying to concentrate on my reads, you instead post some of your own?

>redirection

zenith

also take a look at the first post i made in the phase dipwad