TWG CXLIV - The Freeze Wars (Sex Live)

[storn42]

Cant till likely tomorrow. At a friend's house and on phone atm.

[dLGN]

i swear if I pulled off of wolf rzr d1 because he bitched and moaned and cared about this game than any other townie I'll lose it

[dLGN]

like at this point I now know that (human) xiz was as fucking creeped out at rzr's initial reads list as I was. i may have let an obvious wolf slide. fml.

[Tokzic]

roundbox

- Roundbox's early game was concerning to me. Normally town roundbox is very helpful in terms of processing the format and thinking of ideal ways to use roles (and rooms in this case). Not only did he not really produce anything early, but I was kind of surprised he didn't at least respond to other people's thoughts on format - Charu's, my initial question about whether hobos should claim, dlgn's plan, my plan either of the times I posted it...

- After this feedback came out of a few people, he started proposing trying to use the bathrooms to catch people. This struck me weird because after some thinking what he was proposing would never be able to catch a wolf, but would only use up our bathroom charges for nothing. Reread our our PMs on this.

- He assumed me and botchi were the legit ones and Xiz was lying, but in public chats at least, never really showed any of his work.

- At 11:29 in the Slack game channel, this happened. Rzr asked botchi why we should go for me next if Xiz flips hobo and not botchi. Roundbox, who hadn't been in the channel until that point, thought he was being talked about out of the blue. This feels like a slip to me. His explanation is that he and rzr were talking in private before that and he thought he was in that conversation... except I can't get either of them to produce it:

tokzic [3:50 PM]
i'm starting to wonder about xelnya and storn

​[3:50]
whenever there's more than one player not doing anything

​[3:51]
that group almost always has a wolf hiding in it

tokzic [4:07 PM]
can you give me a chunk of your conversation with roundbox just before 11:29pm last night


----- Today December 9th, 2015 -----
rzr [1:12 PM]
Yo just got on do you still need it?

tokzic [3:22 PM]
would like it yeah

​[3:22]
his explanation makes sense i just want to double-check

tokzic [4:28 PM]
can you hook me up

tokzic [4:34 PM]
can you hook me up your conversation with rzr

roundbox [4:34 PM]
found out today that I only would have part of it

tokzic [4:34 PM]
just before 11:29 dec 6th

​[4:34]
wat why

roundbox [4:34 PM]
we don't have slack premium so it doesn't save all of our convos

​[4:34]
I will post the earliest thing I have

​[4:35]
can I send it to you after I get home

​[4:35]
I'm still at work atm

tokzic [4:45 PM]
okay

[Tokzic]

I'm very confident on Rzr, but I'm less confident about roundbox. There's other fits.

Taking a bit of a break, and then more theories on the way.

[Charu]

Sdq2002 stumbles into the thread!

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by Tokzic

except I can't get either of them to produce it:

oh no you didn't just go there
You think I'm seriously withholding information here?

Here's my earliest logs that I can get with rzr. Hope you enjoy. Not having slack premium cut off things and other people can verify this. Your other points are weak, but this one is especially shitty and despicable.

http://pastebin.com/ZLubuzmU

[roundbox]

On the same topic...

https://twig.slack.com/archives/free...49689160000049

called it.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Tokzic

roundbox

- Roundbox's early game was concerning to me. Normally town roundbox is very helpful in terms of processing the format and thinking of ideal ways to use roles (and rooms in this case). Not only did he not really produce anything early, but I was kind of surprised he didn't at least respond to other people's thoughts on format - Charu's, my initial question about whether hobos should claim, dlgn's plan, my plan either of the times I posted it...

on this note, round actually did talk about the setup a lot early on so that point isn't very strong against him. However, the fact that most of his content has been setup related actually has me leaning him as null/slight scum

[roundbox]

posting some random thoughts and bullshit

-V is so fucking town right now, and will probably be 100% clear when tokzic flips wolf. His thought process of flipping between Xiz and tokzic for lynch candidacy looks natural. His case and complete reversal on Tokzic definitely would clear him when tokzic's flip happens: this does not seem like the bus that V usually goes for, which I've noticed as I've played two wolf games with him now.

Originally Posted by Tokzic

oh

my

fucking

god

it was actually botchi

-this looks fake as shit

-on the tokzic/botchi idea: I favor botchi over this partly because he's new. I don't think a new wolf player (and I know some people would disagree with this fact, I know rzr would) would fake claim. It feels more of a "hey I got a special role this game, and this guy is telling me that I should talk to him since he says he has a special role too". It just seems like the new player move to me here. Occam's razor says that he's probably not a TWG god here or was led by a potential wolf teammate to claim to him.

botchi246 [7:10 PM] 
Why would we use the bathroom already

tokzic [7:10 PM] 
wolves are probably going to be burning our bathroom charges

botchi246 [7:11 PM] 
Oh yah forgot about that new twist

tokzic [7:11 PM] 
so we gotta use em while we got em

botchi246 [7:15 PM] 
If two use kidz zone and one is hobo, will hobo survive the collapse

tokzic [7:15 PM] 
100%

​[7:15] 
50% chance it'll use his freezeproof though

​[7:15] 
since he'll be in main hall

​[7:15] 
who are your top human reads right now

​[7:16] 
i like charu, ayase, rzr, xiz most

botchi246 [7:16 PM] 
Dlgn,rzr,charu,round

​[7:16] 
AA is on the fence for me

​[7:17] 
He just said he was xontemplating asking for security booth before you claimed

tokzic [7:17 PM] 
let's not give it to him lmao

​[7:18] 
are you down with rzr or charu going for it

botchi246 [7:18 PM] 
Since you claimed you should go booth

tokzic [7:18 PM] 
the thing about me going booth is

botchi246 [7:18 PM] 
Id be more comfortable if charu went

tokzic [7:18 PM] 
wolves freezing it would be

​[7:18] 
completely terrible

there are a few lines in here that stick out to me.

-Tokzic proposing that rzr or Charu (???) use the security booth. Tokzic later decided neither of them and took it for himself after Xiz budged. Xiz agreeing to budge here is interesting, as it was the height of his suspicion. Tokzic did contact both of them even after botchi said he would prefer Charu. He told rzr to not use the booth after Xiz moved and took advantage of the situation in his favor.

-Tokzic's belief that Charu is the towniest player (at this point) is pretty fucked considering his correspondence is incredibly, incredibly tiny. No, seriously, go read it and tell me this screams of a conversation someone trying to be a "super hobo" and pushing a strategy/leading town has with his largest town read. This doesn't add up.

Originally Posted by Tokzic

roundbox

- Roundbox's early game was concerning to me. Normally town roundbox is very helpful in terms of processing the format and thinking of ideal ways to use roles (and rooms in this case). Not only did he not really produce anything early, but I was kind of surprised he didn't at least respond to other people's thoughts on format - Charu's, my initial question about whether hobos should claim, dlgn's plan, my plan either of the times I posted it...

- After this feedback came out of a few people, he started proposing trying to use the bathrooms to catch people. This struck me weird because after some thinking what he was proposing would never be able to catch a wolf, but would only use up our bathroom charges for nothing. Reread our our PMs on this.

-I was talking with dlgn and his plan for a solid hour on the first day as I was one of the only ones to agree with his idea. In fact, my "how to use bathrooms" idea that you reference in the second point in your post was inspired by dlgn's plan of having one guy at the head of the operation assigning people to rooms. In hindsight I recognize how shitty this plan is considering wolves can be noncompliant and easily get away with it. I was spending most of the first day thinking solely about the setup, and in fact I told multiple people that I was ignoring reads until I figured out how to approach the game. My personal strategy for the game I have not shared publicly, and have only mentioned so in a PM with another player.

-Hey, wait a minute here, that bathroom idea was proposed ONLY TO YOU. Your wording here makes it sound like I was pushing this idea on multiple people and trying to coerce them into following it. Not cool, man. I know it clashes with your conception of the utility of bathrooms, but simply disagreeing with my fleeting idea does not make the this a wolfy point. Other players (including you, mr. "I'm gonna bring up the IMAX theater after I successfully lynched a blue" and plant the idea in people's heads even though I immediately dismiss it) have brought up ideas that don't work.

-General reads:
TOWN: AA, dabackpack, rzr, V, BOTCHI
TOWN-ISH: dlgn
NULL AKA GET RELEVANT: Xel, Charu, storn
SCUMMY: tokzic

[roundbox]

also throwing out my PM with Xiz that we had in skype. not sure if I shared this before but here it is: http://pastebin.com/byWfVtct

[roundbox]

if I survive the night I'm gonna look at the GET RELEVANT people (Charu, Xel, storn) next

[AragakiAyase]

this is my conversation with AJ today, if he's a wolf then just wow
like idk what other reaction I'd have

botchi246 [5:14 PM] 
Where do you stand on tokzic and i

aragakiayase [6:20 PM] 
in terms of activity recently tokzic looks better right now

​[6:20] 
you earn points just because you're new and you being fake is far less likely than tokzic

​[6:20] 
but your behavior is not what I'd expect from a hobo who has a counterclaim

​[6:24] 
like it feels like earlier after the xiz mislynch you were treating tokzic like he's human

​[6:24] 
I also haven't seen you do reads

​[6:24] 
like at all

​[6:25] 
and tokzic is working a case against you but you're just sitting there it feels like

botchi246 [6:40 PM] 
I put reads up itt

​[6:40] 
Yesterday

aragakiayase [6:41 PM] 
there is no reasoning behind them

​[6:42] 
that's fine with the tokzic scumread because that one is implicit from your POV but all the others are just there

​[6:42] 
why do you read dbp town

​[6:42] 
why dlgn

​[6:42] 
why rzr

botchi246 [6:42 PM] 
I can't put up reads i cant back up

aragakiayase [6:42 PM] 
that's fine but you have rzr/dbp/dlgn as town

​[6:42] 
I assume you have something to back it up or you wouldn't have put it up

botchi246 [6:42 PM] 
From i have spoken  with them they are town. I posted those logs

aragakiayase [6:44 PM] 
specifics

​[6:44] 
what exactly about your chat with them makes you read them town

botchi246 [6:46 PM] 
Ill pull some stuff up, gimme a few

​[6:49] 
there are so many things in rzrs chat

​[6:49] 
you want me to copy paste all of it in here?

​[6:49] 
well all the little segments

aragakiayase [6:49 PM] 
sure

botchi246 [6:50 PM] 
rzr [2:21 AM] 
I was saying to AA we could send 2 suspects to the kidz zone if one backs out then one of them isd a wolf if they both die we get both flips, assuming 1 is a wolf since 2 wolves wouldn't go

botchi246 [2:22 AM] 
Thats a nice idea and all

rzr [2:22 AM] 
also my lmao wasn't at you it was at dlgn

botchi246 [2:22 AM] 
But i doubt anyone would agree to that

​[2:22] 
I know i wouldnt

​[2:22] 
Im fine with other guys going, but is like to protect my lives

​[2:23] 
Id*

aragakiayase [6:50 PM] 
so what about this seems town

botchi246 [6:50 PM] 
im not done

​[6:50] 
its a combination of stuff

aragakiayase [6:50 PM] 
ok

botchi246 [6:51 PM] 
botchi246 [12:28 AM] 
Round is on fence for me

​[12:28] 
And toxciz cuz no idea

rzr [12:29 AM] 
Round and tokzic are actually the players I kow the best.
Tokzic I get a town feel from so far, or at least nothing harmful if that makes more snese.
Roundbox, he's still not helping much.

​[12:29] 
And he usually does

botchi246 [12:30 AM] 
Hmm wolfy?

rzr [12:33 AM] 
For round, yeah, that's what everyone is talking about yeah.

​[12:34] 
but my problem with that is round is one hell of  a player, and mislynching him this early could really screw the game

botchi246 [12:35 AM] 
I agree from your explanation

​[12:35] 
I feel like i could be in the crosshairs

​[6:53] 
rzr [2:56 PM] 
No I know

​[2:56] 
so okay lemme get u hip where I'm at

​[2:56] 
I didn't know anything that really happened last night

​[2:56] 
I've talked with dlgn and AA that's it

​[2:56] 
I still do not trust dlgn, but he doesn't trust AA, and AA doesn't care about him

​[2:56] 
I do trust AA, so that concerns me

​[2:57] 
Tokzic asked me to do something last night that I need to confirm -

​[2:57] 
And we need to fully evaluate Xiz

​[2:57] 
I would like to do that you and me because, no offense, if Xiz flips human then it's obvi between you/tokzic

botchi246 [2:59 PM] 
Yah obvi

​[3:00] 
But aa is like attached to xiz

​[3:00] 
Saying hes town

​[6:53] 
lol in no particular order sorry

​[6:54] 
.

​[6:54] 
.

​[6:54] 
,

​[6:54] 
ok so when i was chatting with rzr and all these little convos happened, it made him look very town

​[6:54] 
he was consistently coming up with good points and perspectives

​[6:55] 
and that makes me think he is town

​[6:55] 
cuz he was on my side

aragakiayase [6:55 PM] 
this is something to be careful of https://twig.slack.com/archives/D0FSJEN8N/p1449705315000041
AJ Bartlettbotchi246
cuz he was on my side
Today at 6:55 PM

​[6:55] 
do you know what a pocket is in this game

botchi246 [6:55 PM] 
yes i know

​[6:55] 
i was victim with tokzic

aragakiayase [6:56 PM] 
ok so do you think rzr could possibly be pocketing you if you're town

botchi246 [6:56 PM] 
well i didnt really come up with anything in this chat that was unique

​[6:56] 
i guess i was more or less backpacking

​[6:56] 
cuz his ideas seem good

aragakiayase [6:56 PM] 
ok

​[6:57] 
i'm sure you know this now but backpacking is generally not well received by players

botchi246 [6:57 PM] 
yehh

aragakiayase [6:57 PM] 
that aside, what do you think of the points that have been brought up by rzr

botchi246 [6:57 PM] 
but since that was pretty much all i was doing in the beginning, there is not a whole lot else to draw from

aragakiayase [6:57 PM] 
like when he paired you and tokzic as a wolf team?

botchi246 [6:58 PM] 
that i think is a ploy to get tokzic and I to throw fire at each other so that reads are easier

aragakiayase [6:58 PM] 
so you think that's still towny?

botchi246 [6:58 PM] 
i think it is

​[6:59] 
it would make deciding who to lynch so much easier from a town perspective

aragakiayase [7:00 PM] 
ok

​[7:00] 
but what do you think of the fact that when he lists possible scenarios for lynching the hobos

​[7:00] 
he never has both you and tokzic wolf?

botchi246 [7:01 PM] 
i dont think it is possible to put us both as wolves

aragakiayase [7:01 PM] 
so you think he just threw it out there to spark discussion

botchi246 [7:02 PM] 
i seriously doubt that if i was not the hobo, the hobo would have stayed silent for this long after first hobo claim and especially xiz lynch

​[7:02] 
would not have*

​[7:02] 
or wait

​[7:02] 
would have

aragakiayase [7:03 PM] 
yeah I think there's no way you and tokzic are both wolves

​[7:03] 
but he just threw it out there and then didn't say anything about it

botchi246 [7:03 PM] 
i wrote it right the first time

aragakiayase [7:03 PM] 
even though his next post was about potential scenarios

​[7:03] 
it feels like he's trying to propose alternate scenarios that he knows are weak and ends up not following up on them

botchi246 [7:03 PM] 
well he seems to have lost his gusto for the game

aragakiayase [7:04 PM] 
I agree

​[7:04] 
ok why do you townread dbp

botchi246 [7:06 PM] 
his stuff is more in the thread, but anyways I like him town because he doesnt seem to have partnered with anyone and is doing his detective thing

​[7:07] 
and if he was wolf i dont think he would have tried as hard

aragakiayase [7:07 PM] 
ok

​[7:07] 
how about dlgn

botchi246 [7:08 PM] 
despite everyones misgivings about him i think he has been town from the beginning

aragakiayase [7:09 PM] 
this was from his conversation with you at some point

​[7:09] 
dlgn [3:48 AM] 
i think it's a lot easier than people make it seem

​[3:49] 
it's k

​[3:49] 
i hope you realize I am town

​[3:49] 
just sheep my reads

​[3:49] 
I will try to push the right lynches

​[7:09] 
what doyou think of him saying to sheep his reads

botchi246 [7:23 PM] 
sorry having an argument irl right now

aragakiayase [7:24 PM] 
np

botchi246 [7:31 PM] 
Well thats when i was backpacking

aragakiayase [7:31 PM] 
yes but looking back does it seem towny or wolfy

botchi246 [7:33 PM] 
Seems scummy

aragakiayase [7:33 PM] 
what else about him seems town to you

botchi246 [7:36 PM] 
But at any given time anyone can seem scummy

aragakiayase [7:37 PM] 
yeah

botchi246 [7:37 PM] 
Even though his first idea was that plan and was pretty blatant town, it rubbed people the wrong way

​[7:38] 
I still got a town feel from it

aragakiayase [7:39 PM] 
anything else

​[7:39] 
because I feel like he's dipped utr a bit recently

​[7:39] 
he's pretty null for me now

botchi246 [7:39 PM] 
But I just didnt really wanna go through with it aince inwas a hobo.and didnt feel comfortable outing yet

​[7:40] 
He has gone more under the radar because i think everything he says just gets the microscope and its not worth it to him

aragakiayase [7:40 PM] 
I hadn't considered that actually, that's a  good point

​[7:41] 
ok one more question

​[7:41] 
why should we lynch tokzic over you

botchi246 [7:47 PM] 
I have been 100% genuine

​[7:48] 
There hasnt been.anything thrown at me that i cant responsibly answer

aragakiayase [7:48 PM] 
ok

botchi246 [7:48 PM] 
Evem.though rzr.voted me a couple times,it wasnt because he thought i was a wolf

aragakiayase [7:48 PM] 
why haven't you been building a case against tokzic

botchi246 [7:48 PM] 
It qas because he wanted me to.apeak yp

aragakiayase [7:48 PM] 
yeah I saw that

​[7:48] 
xel did smoething similar at some point

botchi246 [7:49 PM] 
I have been trying

aragakiayase [7:49 PM] 
where

botchi246 [7:52 PM] 
I have it written on a piece of paper at home

aragakiayase [7:52 PM] 
ok

botchi246 [7:52 PM] 
Which i hope i can get to before eod

aragakiayase [7:52 PM] 
I've been trying to probe your thought process

​[7:52] 
and it seems clean

botchi246 [7:52 PM] 
Cuz im at work

aragakiayase [7:52 PM] 
that combined with your being new makes me think tokzic is almost certainly wolf

​[7:52] 
but I want to see your case against tokzic

his thought process seems completely clean, his tone is very pure, he admitted to backpacking early on but seems to be trying to develop reads now. I do want to see what his case against tokzic is but I'm 95% sure tokzic is wolf

[dLGN]

town may be coming together here?

roundbox sounds very good in his posts here

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by roundbox

if I survive the night I'm gonna look at the GET RELEVANT people (Charu, Xel, storn) next

charu gave one of the reactions I liked the most this game. would be impressed if he was a wolf.

the other two you named, xel and storn, I would vote on in a heartbeat.

[dLGN]

stay warm, friends

[YoshL]

In The Night...

The gates to the Space Space slide shut.



The Kidz Zone is found in shambles.

Tokzic is dead. He was a VANILLA WOLF

Charu is dead. He was a HUMAN

V is dead. He was a HUMAN

48 more hours, on saturday, december 11th at 10PM eastern standard time. Or until an insta happens.

[DaBackpack]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOo

[AragakiAyase]

FUCK

I sent storn into the security booth, he said he was going to send me his result in the morning

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by yoshl

in the night...

tokzic is dead. he was a vanilla wolf

charu is dead. he was a human

v is dead. he was a human
[/spoiler]
48 more hours, on saturday, december 11th at 10pm eastern standard time. Or until an insta happens.

lmfao !!!!

Lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!lmfao !!!!