12th Official Tournament

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by awein999

i tried in this tournament to the best of my ability but i didn't actively put the time in to train. i would have trained *harder* if i knew about the prizes. assessing blame to anyone for not trying as hard as they can no matter what is not a realistic mindset because not everyone is motivated by the same things.

in the end it's not that big of a deal thank you for running the tournament. i just think coming out and saying it's our fault if we aren't always investing everything we can no matter what in the tournament is irrationally defensive.

just bolding this to say: I'm not managing this tournament and just acting as a helper, so don't associate this response with the wrong target. This is my opinion as a competitor.

[hi19hi19]

tbh I didn't try this tournament to the best of my ability and knowing that there were new prizes probably would have changed that


what it wouldn't have changed was my complete inability to make it to a prize round in my division this tournament anyway so I guess it doesn't matter in the end

[psychoangel691]

You know what, nevermind my opinion will just stir up drama.

I will from here on out, not start an OT until all prizes including donated prizes are filled in. That way there's no issues about this again.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

This also means going forward if someone presents a prize they'd like to add during the event it will be denied.

Perhaps having the initial tournament post up longer would help alleviate this?
This OT only had two weeks notice or so, maybe stretching that out by an extra week or two would allow not only prizes to be sorted out ahead of time, but also more time to collect sign-ups?

That should also make your job easier, not harder, since prizepool is one more thing you won't have to worry about mid-tournament.

As for the "principle" of competition, obviously it would be great if everyone competed their best all the time on everything ever, but the fact remains that sometimes something as silly as a pack of ramen or a meaningless token on your meaningless profile can be a nice thing to work towards

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Perhaps having the initial tournament post up longer would help alleviate this?
This OT only had two weeks notice or so, maybe stretching that out by an extra week or two would allow not only prizes to be sorted out ahead of time, but also more time to collect sign-ups?

That should also make your job easier, not harder, since prizepool is one more thing you won't have to worry about mid-tournament.

You say this as if it's not been done before. I've had MONTHS set aside for things only to get nowhere. So, no.
I didn't have to worry about it mid-tournament. I WANTED to surprise people, and most people vocally had enjoyed it up until now, lol. So is what it is I guess.


Edit to your edit: That's just it though, the ramen was there, the necklaces were there, dev's perlers were there. There was plenty to strive for. So to me imo complaining that one didn't give it their all because of prizes over a token makes no sense. Because there were prizes to go for, it's not like there was no incentive at all.

[tosh]

Opkiller with 4 clean and Beary with 6-0-0-2.

Even though there is now a D8, D7 is still insane.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Now sure, I've always wanted the tokens, but who doesn't like collecting things? I liked how vRofl eventually got other ways to be given out, and who knows, maybe these eventually will to. I'm fine with these tokens being added.

I think the main problem is structural - it now takes 64 tournament quality files to run an OT, and you need a batch of at least 100 songs to pull from to make it work out nicely. If people didn't have to wait a year, maybe they'd be more willing to hear this out?

Suggestion - a recurring event that uses in game files (Monthly?) where top 3 to 5 players can earn tokens. Make the final round only brand new charts, and the finalists can have exclusive access to these for however long the round is. After the round, the songs would go public (kind of like how some songs would be "vet only" for a time back in the day). This would add at least 8 charts to the game a month.

Thank you for running the tournament, running events is a very time consuming process and I'm greatful for the time that's been put into it. There were lots of bangers added to the game this year.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

Now sure, I've always wanted the tokens, but who doesn't like collecting things? I liked how vRofl eventually got other ways to be given out, and who knows, maybe these eventually will to. I'm fine with these tokens being added.

I think the main problem is structural - it now takes 64 tournament quality files to run an OT, and you need a batch of at least 100 songs to pull from to make it work out nicely. If people didn't have to wait a year, maybe they'd be more willing to hear this out?

Suggestion - a recurring event that uses in game files (Monthly?) where top 3 to 5 players can earn tokens. Make the final round only brand new charts, and the finalists can have exclusive access to these for however long the round is. After the round, the songs would go public (kind of like how some songs would be "vet only" for a time back in the day). This would add at least 8 charts to the game a month.

Thank you for running the tournament, running events is a very time consuming process and I'm greatful for the time that's been put into it. There were lots of bangers added to the game this year.

The only token here that's OT exclusive, for the time being, is V0, everything else is an event token obtainable during any official event. So I really don't get the major issue with it.
And actually I don't get it 'cause the V0 was announced prior to the top 8, so it was known in the round it was relevant for.

I already wanted and suggested doing in-game file OT's during the year, I got chewed out about new content. As I said, there's always someone who's not satisfied. I've suggested a million and one things, the majority of the time it's ignored or received negatively. I am only one human person vs an entire community of people who want different things.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Having more frequent events would help update people's level ranks too so they end up with scores reflecting their skill more often. Let's face it, intentionally or not, most people play casually 10 months out of the year and then try-hard for prizes, people are bound to be under placed by our system. Especially with more and more players coming from other games like Osu and Etterna. I'm not saying my suggestion will fix sandbagging (intentional or not) in principle, but at least they'd be getting bumped up more often. And when it's only 1 month until the next event, it's not so bad.

[tosh]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

Having more frequent events would help update people's level ranks too so they end up with scores reflecting their skill more often. Let's face it, intentionally or not, most people play casually 10 months out of the year and then try-hard for prizes, people are bound to be under placed by our system. Especially with more and more players coming from other games like Osu and Etterna. I'm not saying my suggestion will fix sandbagging (intentional or not) in principle, but at least they'd be getting bumped up more often. And when it's only 1 month until the next event, it's not so bad.

Honestly I think the placements were pretty much spot on this year. There were a few adjustments made afterwards, but those were done early in the tournament. Any outliers that are more active on osumania/Etterna likely would still be outliers even if there is a monthly tournament setup.

And of course you will always have a few people that skillboost a full division or so in the course of a tournament.

[xXOpkillerXx]

I just learned about prizes, thought it was only credits and ramen for 4th rofl.

May I ask why d8 gets all event tokens ? Seems a bit unfair tbh; they get a user color already. Giving each D8 player like 1 token would be more legit, and keeping the top 3 rule. Idk what others think but yeah, maybe tone it down a little ?

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

I just learned about prizes, thought it was only credits and ramen for 4th rofl.

May I ask why d8 gets all event tokens ? Seems a bit unfair tbh; they get a user color already. Giving each D8 player like 1 token would be more legit, and keeping the top 3 rule. Idk what others think but yeah, maybe tone it down a little ?

D7 previously got their own title and unlocked everything. It was something that was essentially reserved for the top-of-the-top. Taken from the 11th OT thread:

-Competitors that are INVOLUNTARILY placed in D7 and complete the tournament (submit for every round they are present and should be active) will receive Unconnected. and Fractured Sunshine, as well as receive a custom forum title indicating that they are a D7 player. They will also receive the three older support tokens and event tokens as a memento of their incredible skill, as they did in the past tournament.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

D7 previously got their own title and unlocked everything. It was something that was essentially reserved for the top-of-the-top. Taken from the 11th OT thread:

Ah wow, I guess I learned something. Didnt know that was a thing, even though that's probably how I got the current ones. Still sounds a bit silly imo but oh well

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

I just learned about prizes, thought it was only credits and ramen for 4th rofl.

May I ask why d8 gets all event tokens ? Seems a bit unfair tbh; they get a user color already. Giving each D8 player like 1 token would be more legit, and keeping the top 3 rule. Idk what others think but yeah, maybe tone it down a little ?

This is where I'm going to die a little inside and laugh out loud at the same time considering the given situation right now. Rob mentioned how he felt D8 should just get all the tokens at that point for reaching the top of the top and that people were just in it for the competition anyway.

But yes, it's one of those hey you've managed to get this freaking far have it all!

[xXOpkillerXx]

I mean I honestly don't mind much (only for completionist but that's irrelevant), I just thought that saving these tokens for events would give some incentive to d8 to participate to other, smaller events too. It's probably not quite true though if the tokens arent like 100+ anyway. But yeah if it was like that already, I suppose changing it would also be somewhat unfair.

Edit: also mfw perler and keychain woah

[TheSaxRunner05]

Originally Posted by tosh

Honestly I think the placements were pretty much spot on this year. There were a few adjustments made afterwards, but those were done early in the tournament. Any outliers that are more active on osumania/Etterna likely would still be outliers even if there is a monthly tournament setup.

And of course you will always have a few people that skillboost a full division or so in the course of a tournament.

Let me reiterate: I'm not criticizing the placements themselves. We place people to the best of our knowledge with the scores they have. I even admit that more frequent events doesn't fix sandbagging outright.

What I am saying, is the placements are based on scoring data, and unless you're one of the few that grind out scores for fun, most scores are casual - therefore those players that tend to play casually and only grind for events will always be underrated. Having more official events will theoretically have people "try-hard" (god I hate that term) more often and make their ranks more reflective of their current speed and skill.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Sorry I didn't see the response I was typing an addendum. Its true we can't appease everyone. If the current once a year mega tournament style is more popular, then sure. If people don't like change, then I don't think that leaves much room for them to critique the current system.

[psychoangel691]

Did you read my reply?

Doing monthly OT's would be excessive but I'd wanted to do seasonal OT's which I'd posted about and like I'd already mentioned people were not fond of the in-game content deal of things.

There's also and has been for a LONG time the ability for users to get official backing for their events to where they can have tokens as prizes. No one takes advantage of this and that's out of my control.

Edit: welp my post came after you posted again so answered my own question there.

[TheSaxRunner05]

I want to say again though that I am greatful for all the time put in to running this tournament - from the batch process to the placements, uploading new content, and even the previews. There was a lot of hype this year and it's nice to see around the game.

[Swedcxzaq]

Yeah, on the same note as SaxRunner, I want to say in midst of all this conflict that this tourney has been really run and hype. This is my first FFR tournament and it's been quite an awesome experience so far and is pushing me to improve a ton. Until a few months ago, I've played literally zero js — only index files or normal files with the "no jumps" mod on. Since around the time the tourney was announced, I've been grinding to improve past the point I had been stuck at for years (aka learning how to js and stream past 210 lol) and I'm finally getting results.

In terms of frequency of future tournaments, I feel like a single annual one would be more hype, but I don't mind whatever you guys do; they're fun either way.