Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2006, 01:25 PM   #1
Laharl
FFR Player
 
Laharl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 1,821
Send a message via AIM to Laharl Send a message via MSN to Laharl
Default Internet Cowardice

People that use the internet as an outlet to say what they think without ramifications from their peers in the real world vex me greatly. I find that act disgusting.

It is very true that I am simply incapable of being anything but honest. It's both my greatest strength and greatest weakness. I realize that about myself, and know that bears a great deal into why I feel the way I do.

With that said, let me get into my reasons why I particularly disdain this practice. Mostly, I feel that people who need to rely on the anonymnity and/or distance from peers in their life to say what they have to say are cowards. They are afraid of what they believe. They are afraid their views will be shunned, and because it is human nature to shun people who have some ideas we feel are too distorted out of reality, that they themselves will be outcast. As I have stated in other threads in the past, I believe humanity is a social animal that needs other people, as much as we might try and deny it.

I see a level of hyprocrisy in living life one way except when one can get away with following a different set of ideals in a different situation. Let us say, someone who is friendly with everyone they encounter in person yet go out of their way to be rude, obnoxious, and down-right meanspirited toward any and everyone they know online. Why is it okay on the one hand to be, for lack of a better word, a complete jackass to people whom you will never meet face to face and yet it is something you just won't do in person?

I realize I am as guilty of doing that as anyone. (I am not, however, guilty of saying one thing online while living another in person.) Probably why I felt like bringing up the topic, or at least one of the many reasons. I have met Rai in person, and thought (still think, actually) he's a pretty cool guy, yet his manners here on FFR grate on my nerves. I personally don't like feeling that way.

Something else that crossed my mind while I was typing this, is that internet manners were almost entirely decided by younger generations. Message boards, chat rooms, etc. are a domain of the youth. I can't really think of anyone over the age of 50 that uses the internet for the social aspect of it, 'cept for maybe e-mail. I wonder how much the fact that people in their twenties more or less defined nettiquette has affected the subject on which I am writing.

Last edited by Laharl; 09-19-2006 at 06:45 PM..
Laharl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 03:06 PM   #2
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Banned
 
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: oh silly!
Posts: 1,048
Send a message via AIM to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via MSN to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via Skype™ to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Jesus Christ, though I know what you're trying to say, your argument is flawed in so many ways that I don't know where to start.

But for one thing, I'd like to answer your question with a question:
Quote:
Why is it okay on the one hand to be, for lack of a better word, a complete jackass to people whom you will never meet face to face and yet it is something you just won't do in person?
Why shouldn't it be okay?
Go on, tell me why.

Also:

Quote:
I have met Rai in person, and thought (still think, actually) he's a pretty cool guy
I had no idea who you were when I met you in person and therefore socialized normally. I generally choose not to form any radical opinion right off the bat. If you had said something I strongly disagreed with, I would have let you know rather straightforwardly. If you had said something I agreed with, I would have let you know rather straightforwardly. We didn't exactly say much of anything.
Quote:
yet his manners here on FFR grate on my nerves. I personally don't like feeling that way.
If someone posts something utterly retarded, I will retort. If someone says something utterly retarded to me in person, I will retort. Ask mead1.

Also, TGB is a community in which those who ruin the humor are generally looked down upon. That can easily be turned around by making humor out of getting rid of them.
Quote:
I can't really think of anyone over the age of 50 that uses the internet for the social aspect of it, 'cept for maybe e-mail.
Just wait a couple decades.
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 06:15 PM   #3
Laharl
FFR Player
 
Laharl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 1,821
Send a message via AIM to Laharl Send a message via MSN to Laharl
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons View Post
Jesus Christ, though I know what you're trying to say, your argument is flawed in so many ways that I don't know where to start.
Because you disagree with me? Doesn't mean it's flawed. Also, your phrasing here is needlessly argumentative, which really does lessen "the truth" of what you have to say.

Makes me wish I could go back and not even post the other thread I've created in here recently. I made it while incredibly angry, and know full well that any truth I might have said would inherently be tainted by my tone, causing it full well to no longer be truth. Alas, you know what they say. Hindsight is 20/20.

Quote:
But for one thing, I'd like to answer your question with a question:

Why shouldn't it be okay?
Go on, tell me why.
That is not an answer. There is absolutely no reason I should go and answer your question without you answering mine. Trying to answer a question by asking it's inverse to the person who first posed you the query shows that you don't have an answer and want to force me to give my opinion first so that you can pick that apart rather than supply your own thoughts.

Quote:
I had no idea who you were when I met you in person and therefore socialized normally. I generally choose not to form any radical opinion right off the bat. If you had said something I strongly disagreed with, I would have let you know rather straightforwardly. If you had said something I agreed with, I would have let you know rather straightforwardly. We didn't exactly say much of anything.
The FFR meetup this spring. I forgot the name of the town and the name of the place we all met up at. I was the really, really tall guy, dark hair, wearing a Megaman T-shirt.

Quote:
(This in regards to the age of internet users) Just wait a couple decades.
Obviously. Those that use it now, will most likely do so later. Either way, we're more or less the internet generation.
Laharl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 06:29 PM   #4
Specforces
Yes
FFR Veteran
 
Specforces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,029
Send a message via AIM to Specforces
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
It is very true that I am simple.
For once you and I agree on something.

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS:

I would tell you everything here to your face.
__________________
Check Out My Music

Last edited by Specforces; 09-19-2006 at 06:32 PM..
Specforces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 06:45 PM   #5
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Banned
 
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: oh silly!
Posts: 1,048
Send a message via AIM to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via MSN to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via Skype™ to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
Because you disagree with me?
No, and I am wholeheartedly against the pushing off of opinion as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
Doesn't mean it's flawed.
Once again, I said nothing about simply disagreeing with it. My statement was to point out that several portions of your original post are highly questionable and I don't currently have the time, the patience, or the drive to point them all out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
Also, your phrasing here is needlessly argumentative, which really does lessen "the truth" of what you have to say.
No. Anyone who, while debating, argues about their opponents word-choice and tone of voice shouldn't be debating. This isn't the Manners Forum. This is Critical Thinking. It's the debate that matters, not who says "please" and "thank you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
I made it while incredibly angry, and know full well that any truth I might have said would inherently be tainted by my tone, causing it full well to no longer be truth.
Tone only changes the message if you're shallow, retarded, and oversensitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
That is not an answer. There is absolutely no reason I should go and answer your question without you answering mine. Trying to answer a question by asking it's inverse to the person who first posed you the query shows that you don't have an answer and want to force me to give my opinion first so that you can pick that apart rather than supply your own thoughts.
No, it shows how ludicrous the original argument is. There is no reason why anyone "should" act a certain way. Your argument is about ethics and is pure opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laharl View Post
The FFR meetup this spring. I forgot the name of the town and the name of the place we all met up at. I was the really, really tall guy, dark hair, wearing a Megaman T-shirt.
I knew who you were, I just didn't know anything about you.
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 06:46 PM   #6
Laharl
FFR Player
 
Laharl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 1,821
Send a message via AIM to Laharl Send a message via MSN to Laharl
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specforces View Post
LOL I CAUGHT LAHARL IN A TYPO I GUESS THAT MEANS HE IS DUMB LOL
What's that new internet acronym everyone's been using...? "GDIAF" I believe.
Laharl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 06:59 PM   #7
Specforces
Yes
FFR Veteran
 
Specforces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,029
Send a message via AIM to Specforces
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

See, here's a prime example of you spazzing out over something that was obviously posted in jest. I explicitly stated: IN ALL SERIOUSNESS. But you are all butthurt over simple things. Let's have a hug and cry session in your honor shall we?

Dude, you have an anger problem. I think you need to seek help.
__________________
Check Out My Music
Specforces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 07:09 PM   #8
banditcom
FFR Player
 
banditcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willimantic, CT
Age: 37
Posts: 6,243
Send a message via ICQ to banditcom Send a message via AIM to banditcom Send a message via Yahoo to banditcom Send a message via Skype™ to banditcom
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Did you use yourself for inspiration in making this thread?
banditcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 07:23 PM   #9
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Banned
 
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: oh silly!
Posts: 1,048
Send a message via AIM to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via MSN to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons Send a message via Skype™ to TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by banditcom View Post
Did you use yourself for inspiration in making this thread?
I thought something similar.
TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 09:08 PM   #10
Cavernio
sunshine and rainbows
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

I think that's its down right awesome how people develop different net attitudes. (And I can't believe I used the word awesome. Am I just dating myself using that? Can it still be around? That's a Ninja Turtle word. Yes, I'm 20 something.) I also think it's totally awesome that in my generation, and when I was a teenager to-boot, did the internet become popular. I was part of developing the dawn of a new era. Sooooooo cool. I was in the first wave of people to get crushes over the internet chatting on ICQ. I was in that first wave to experience how differently people can interact with each other online. And quite possibly because I was teenager then and my emotions ran high that the experience was amazing. God knows that I don't act the same way now as I did then. I've not turned into the rabid MSN or AIM<--evil user of these days, I'm rarely on, and when I am, I use it more like a "hey, what're we doing later" instead of having emotionally draining personal conversations with people whom I would never (or probably never have) had with in real life. What I'm not sure about nowadays is has this same lull happened to everyone? Was it just the novelty of it all, the impersonalness which makes it more personal oddly? Or do all teens/tweens go through somewhat of the same thing with it? When the phone came out, was it such a novelty then too? Did people all of a sudden decide that they could communicate now because they didn't have to look at the person? Or is the phone still too personal, hearing someone's voice too personal?

I just find it fascinating the way people can turn into someone else than the person you would meet and may even befriend in real life.
Another thing I find odd is that especially when using instant messaging services, there's the complete ability to take a long time, erase what we were going to say, change the wording, make it better, which I certainly did all the time when I was using them, although not nearly so much anymore. Yet, there was still a need to add inflections of sorts, non-perfect dialogue. In fact, we make things purposefully not perfect. For instance, instead of making oneself sound like a casanova, people will put something nervous and loserish instead. It's just odd that...we want to act in these certain ways.

But this is really getting off-topic from the original post. Firstly, as you can probably tell, I don't think that changing one's online persona is cowardly. It can be I suppose, but I like to think of it oppositely. The non-social socialization of the internet empowers someone who would otherwise not be heard. This is a GOOD thing. It is a better thing to hear more about what people ACTUALLY think, it is MORE communication. Also, to tell people who are much more outspoken on the internet that they're being cowardly in real life when they don't say controversial, or seemingly controversial things, just isn't fair. Can you imagine how insane the world would be if everyone were as outspoken and loud as they are the internet? Seriously, there'd be chaos and arguing and rioting.
And you're probably thinking that if the way people act on the internet is such that if they acted like that in real-life, then they shouldn't be acting like that on the internet either. But I'll say again, voices are a good thing. Flying off the handle isn't good, but it's not causing serious harm.
The internet's a whole new world for that. A place where differences can be voiced and discussions AND arguments be held in safe environment, where no one's going to punch someone, and where people are probably not going to get as offended as if someone told them something like that in real life. I'm sure there's gotta be some carthasis studies about it.
The day that netiquette has evolved so much that arguements should never happen if everyone's following it, is the day that we'll have handed over a means of expression and openess we may never see again.

Last edited by Cavernio; 09-20-2006 at 09:10 PM..
Cavernio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 09:11 PM   #11
Cavernio
sunshine and rainbows
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Oh, also, I play bridge online. Lotsa grannies socialize while playing that.
Cavernio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 10:16 PM   #12
Specforces
Yes
FFR Veteran
 
Specforces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,029
Send a message via AIM to Specforces
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

I like you, you can play in my treehouse.
__________________
Check Out My Music
Specforces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 07:48 AM   #13
duhh_
FFR Player
 
duhh_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: in a box of lucky charms
Posts: 429
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Not at all true. ( At least in my case)

If someone upsets me online, then I retaliate.
Same case in real life.

Most people arn't two -sided. There online persona reflects the way they are in person.
__________________
use small words when you talk **** about me, because you'll be eating them later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokzic View Post
i hear there's this amazing new invention

it's called google

you take words that you want to know more about and you type them in and OH SHIT YOU GET INFORMATION
duhh_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 09:36 AM   #14
Cavernio
sunshine and rainbows
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

I agree that an online persona reflects who they are as a person. I just don't at all think that grasping at more than 1 persona is wrong or 2 faced. You're not going to act the same way in a church as you are at a bar. Does that mean you're being 2-faced?

I'll play in your treehouse as long as there's no earwigs in it
Cavernio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 10:00 PM   #15
Specforces
Yes
FFR Veteran
 
Specforces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,029
Send a message via AIM to Specforces
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

no, no earwigs.
__________________
Check Out My Music
Specforces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 11:53 PM   #16
Hr2
FFR Player
 
Hr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 31
Posts: 2,350
Send a message via AIM to Hr2 Send a message via MSN to Hr2
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

You know what, that is one of the great things about the internet, you don't have to be like you are in real life and no one expects you to. This is a whole different ball game! Your internet personality is only the shadow you project of your real life self. I'm not saying I'm drastically different in real life, I can't describe how I am in real life, you'd have to just meet me yourself, which will probably never happen for the overwhelming majority of you, but that doesn't matter. What does matter, is that people have the right to make socializing on the internet whatever is most fun to them, the internet is for two things, information and entertainment. If you're not learning and communicating, and you're not having fun, then what the hell are you doing on the computer?

If you're not satisfied with your personality in real life, but for whatever circumstances cannot change it, who says you can't be a better, or worse, person on the internet?
__________________
Hr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 12:51 AM   #17
Laharl
FFR Player
 
Laharl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 1,821
Send a message via AIM to Laharl Send a message via MSN to Laharl
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

I'd like to say thank you to Cavernio and Hr2 for not having predisposed notions of who I am as the OP of this thread and therefore adding meaningful, insightful posts. I was beginning to think the anti-Laharl sentiment ran deeper than just Spec, Rai, and Banditcom.

Anyway, on to specific points:

I think you are being 2-faced to a certain extent if you put on one show at church and another in a bar, as your example goes. I'm going to assume said person in the example is religious, probably following the notion that being sober and respectful are good things and the correct way to be. The very act of being in the bar in the first place would be contradictory to that. Alternatively, that same person might revel in drunkeness, partying and having a good time being the things he most believes in. If that is the case, then what reason does he have in any church?

I see your point about arguing and opinions being expressed when one might not be able to do so in person. However, I'm not against freedom of thought. I really hope I don't come across that way. Freedom of thought is in fact one thing I heavily support and believe in. It's more the manner in which most people try and get their ideas across, I find particularly distasteful. If you're not overly rude when voicing an opinion in person, then why be overly rude while voicing an opinion online? The same rules of human conduct should apply to both aspects. I believe they do, regardless. If you're an ass to people, either online or off, no one else will listen to what you have to say or rather take it seriously. (Guilty as charged, although I hope others recognize themselves doing the same.)
Laharl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 01:23 AM   #18
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hr2 View Post
You know what, that is one of the great things about the internet, you don't have to be like you are in real life and no one expects you to. This is a whole different ball game! Your internet personality is only the shadow you project of your real life self. I'm not saying I'm drastically different in real life, I can't describe how I am in real life, you'd have to just meet me yourself, which will probably never happen for the overwhelming majority of you, but that doesn't matter. What does matter, is that people have the right to make socializing on the internet whatever is most fun to them, the internet is for two things, information and entertainment. If you're not learning and communicating, and you're not having fun, then what the hell are you doing on the computer?

If you're not satisfied with your personality in real life, but for whatever circumstances cannot change it, who says you can't be a better, or worse, person on the internet?
I somewhat disagree here.

The internet is an extension of your RL self because that is undeniably you behind those words. If you're an asshole or generally just a bad person on the internet, it's not because something magically changes in you once you open up IE, no, it's because there's a part of you which is actually a bad person. That part of you is suppressed most of the time because being a bad person is generally unacceptable, but you generally don't have to answer to your actions on the internet (barring getting Wenzeled, but that's an extreme case). So you only act out when you can't get in trouble. What's that called? Oh yeah, cowardice.

You're right in that nobody can tell you what you can or can't be on the internet, but how you act online most certainly reflects who you are, same as how you act in real life.

I guess what I'm getting at is that being on the internet doesn't give you a free pass to be an asshole and then completely excuse it because you were online (an excuse I've seen way too many times here, and it sickens me). No, you may be able to avoid the face rearranging for which you asked, but your actions to merit it won't be wiped off your character record.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 07:31 PM   #19
Cavernio
sunshine and rainbows
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Well, no actually, I wasn't referring to necessarily being a religious person in church. Church is just a place where you're expected to not be drunk, or swear, etc. That's the social norm of being in a church. As an aside to the main point, enjoying oneself in drunken revelery is not considered a sin for some denominations, at least not for Catholics, but I suppose they're generally shunned from the rest of the Christian community anyways. Also, believing in 'having a good time' and belief in God aren't mutually exclusive. I see little reason why they would be, actually. People don't develop faith because there's nothing else they want in life, nor does having faith mean you don't value fun. Regardless though, whether or not this is agreed upon by many, the fact is is that there are people who do both, go to bars and get drunk (or get drunk at home) and go to church. But I suppose you call them 2 faced then. I wouldn't, unless we ARE talking about a tremendously religious person who pretends they strongly believe that drunkenness is wrong.
No, I know you're not against freedom of thought or freedom of speech. I also don't think that people should be rude just because they can either. If someone's trying to foist ideas on people anyways, they're being very ignorant if they think that being rude to the people they disagree with will somehow change their mind. I suppose I was more referring to being more honest about what you really think, and if that so happens to include a large amount of anger and frustration, then so be it.
But since I also think acting very strongly to things just ends up being anti-communicative I suppose, cause no one will take what you say without vehemence. So I guess I'm kinda contradicting myself. But if saying what you really mean on the net and not saying those things in person is being a coward, then I'm glad that a lot of people are cowards.
Cavernio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 09:54 PM   #20
Laharl
FFR Player
 
Laharl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 1,821
Send a message via AIM to Laharl Send a message via MSN to Laharl
Default Re: Internet Cowardice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Also, believing in 'having a good time' and belief in God aren't mutually exclusive. I see little reason why they would be, actually. People don't develop faith because there's nothing else they want in life, nor does having faith mean you don't value fun. Regardless though, whether or not this is agreed upon by many, the fact is is that there are people who do both, go to bars and get drunk (or get drunk at home) and go to church. But I suppose you call them 2 faced then. I wouldn't, unless we ARE talking about a tremendously religious person who pretends they strongly believe that drunkenness is wrong.
I didn't mean to suggest that enjoying life and seeking fun were mutually exclusive from believing in a higher power. I simply meant someone who's main drive in life is simply to have fun, rather than a person who's main goal is to find the most enjoyable existance they can by looking at things long-term. I'm still not getting my point across very clearly here, so I'm just going to have to hope you're getting the gist of what I'm saying.

Quote:
But since I also think acting very strongly to things just ends up being anti-communicative I suppose, cause no one will take what you say without vehemence. So I guess I'm kinda contradicting myself. But if saying what you really mean on the net and not saying those things in person is being a coward, then I'm glad that a lot of people are cowards.
I am of the mind that if you're not willing to speak up on the things you believe in person, then anything you say on the internet is more or less null and void. If push comes to shove and you don't stand up for what you believe in, then your conviction in the truth as you see it is inherently faulty and lacking substance.
Laharl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution